Pioneer 107 and DVD media question

[csean at poc.it]

on 01/02/2004 23:59, Power Macintosh G4 List at G4 at lists.themacintoshguy.com
wrote:

>> I don't think it's illegal here, but the issue seems pretty irrelevant
>> anyway.
> 
> No, it's not. It's not about you, it's about the operator who dedicates
> time and resources to run this list. He may not have the same point of
> view as you have on fair use, or he may not wish to run the risk of a
> nuisance suit from MPAA.

Well, that's a lot of "mays"...

He may indeed have a different point of view, I sincerely hope he does, but
I assume he's perfectly capable of telling me his point of view if he wants
to, either on the list or privately. Just as he may (and should) express
himself as to what "risks" he is prepared or not prepared to run: and then
set list rules in accordance; at which point members and potential members
can join or leave as they choose.

That said, I would be wary of any instinct towards self-censorship, in that
is probably one of the worst things that could happen to the Internet. While
on one hand the Internet may very well be the greatest vehicle for the
exchange of information in human history, your words are enduring proof of
the line, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

You start out by saying simply that "In more than one country, the operation
you describe is illegal".
Yet no further information is provided. Not which countries, no quoting of
said laws, no links to the relative legal decisions, etc. In short, what
amounts to little more than hearsay and scare tactics (the latter being
something we might expect from the MPAA itself).

Again, I asked if anyone knew how to make a backup copy, for personal
in-home use, of legally owned DVDs, in order to protect said original DVDs
(and VHS cassettes), which, given their design and manufacturing faults, are
prone to becoming unreadable in relatively short time through no fault or
misuse of mine (On a side note: anyone ever considered a class action suit
against DVD and VHS makers and distributors for their "faulty" products?).

It is in the nature of Mailing lists that questions regarding (potentially)
"illegal" acts (in some country) may slip thru and get posted. And thank
goodness for that. But the fact that said questions do slip thru and get
posted does not constitute a prosecutable act on the list operator's part.
This has been established in law. Of course it is a different issue if
discussion of said "illegal" acts becomes habitual and is instigated, and
instructions and means for same are provided or sold; all of which may
indeed, one day, if in fact laws are passed and put in place, and
jurisdictions established, and penalties set, and so on, lead to official
action by someone somewhere.

But anyway, as others have said here, the legal aspects in question seem
still to be up in the air, and still up in the air in several, if not most,
individual countries.
That said, if anyone knows that the legal aspects have in fact been settled,
in a specific country, please let us know and point us to a site where we
can get that info. 

The issue of different legislation in different countries is an important
one too. And not only because you could use your superdrive-equipped
powerbook to burn said DVD backups, say, on an airplane in international
airspace,  and play them there, or even in a country where same is not
illegal. Individual mobility, freedom of movement, often outpaces entrenched
privilege. But more to the point we are also talking about the internet,
which may or may not have borders.

I am not in the United States, therefore I assume I will be under different
legislation - if and when said laws are passed. The list operator, if based
in the US, I assume will be under US law, so indeed we will have to respect
his position there.

As to the MPAA, I assume it's based in the USA, and therefore is under (and
lobbies to skew) US law. I am not in the USA or in a DVD Region 1 country.
The DVDs I own and am interested in protecting are Region 2. The MPAA wanted
Region coding at all costs, and now it has that. I don't know if it thought
through the aspects of different regions also being covered by different
legal systems, but that is indeed one of the results of its actions.
Naturally it will want its cake and to eat it too, but, again, we will have
to wait and see. There will no doubt be a European arm (or other appendage)
of the MPAA at work here, but again, it will have to act according to
different laws than in the US, if and when said laws are enacted.

> No. But, if this list were hosted in China -- a dictatorship where the
> government controls Internet access with an iron hand and no velvet
> glove -- and somebody on this list posted messages about methods of
> circumventing Communist censorship, then I might warn the poster that
> he could get the list owner in trouble.

But would a US-based list owner "get in trouble" for providing Chinese
citizens with the opportunity to break Chinese law? Could the Chinese
authorities apply for an international warrant against him?
Would/could/should he be pressured/charged by US authorities?

Will a US-based list owner get in trouble by providing a forum for my
question regarding backing up Region 2 DVDs that have been printed,
distributed and sold in Europe? Independently of European law?

Should one need a law degree (or several) before joining an email list?

No offense is intended here; lots of rhetoric, sure, but no offense. If
anyone does have some info on the legal and/or technical aspects, do let us
know. Privately, if you feel it's more prudent.

Chris