From petter.adsen at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 03:16:44 2007 From: petter.adsen at gmail.com (Petter Adsen) Date: Fri Jun 1 03:18:15 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet Message-ID: <465FF20C.9030909@gmail.com> Hi, I've been using this machine (see subject) as my main workstation for several years now, but I've found it's really about time to do somthing to increase performance. First of all, I'm aware that I could probably get a newer Intel Mac for what it will cost me to upgrade this G4, but for various reasons I'd prefer keeping this machine as long as it still functions. First of all, I really need a CPU upgrade. Exchanging the 450MHz CPUs for something like 2X1,5GHz G4's should be adequate for my needs, maybe I could get away with less, but this machine will probably not see yet another CPU upgrade, so I'd like to get the fastest CPU's I can afford. Has anyone got any recommendations on what I should be looking at? Hassle-free installation, compatibility and good performance are my priorities, of course in addition to price. What would you recommend as a good, stable CPU-upgrade for this machine? If what I had in mind is unreasonably expensive, what would you suggest as a good alternative that would still give me a significant boost in CPU power at a good price? Second: I gather this machine is limited to 128GB drives. As I'd really like to put in either 2x 250GB drives or 1x500GB drive, would I need a new controller? If so, is there a controller that would work without too much hassle and give good performance? Should I investigate S-ATA? Extreme disk performance is not really a priority, lots of disk space with reasonable performance is what I'm after. Third; I'd like to upgrade my sub-par graphics-adapter to something halfway decent. I don't use the machine for games (a lot), but getting SimCity 4 and a couple of other newish games run at decent speeds would be nice. I'd also like to get support for Quartz Extreme. But the hottest-of-the-hot I do not need. (If Google Earth would run at a decent speed, that would get me a lot closer to what I actually need). What are my options? Finally: What Gbit ethernet controllers out there would work fine in this machine? I really need another Gbit interface, but while several cards claim to work in this machine, has anybody got any experience with a card that doesn't just work, but yields good performance with a minimum of hassle? (Anyhing I haven't thought of to boost performance would of course also be very welcome suggestions.) Oh, I *have* done some research, I'm not asking here because I'm too lazy to search around for myself, but I've found several alternatives that would seem to fit my needs, and I'd be much conforted getting some advice from people who have actually tried some of these options and some feedback on their experiences with them. Any feedback at all would be most welcome, I have a fair amount of experience with hardware, but coming from a Sun/HP PA-RISC/SGI background this type of Mac hardware is not something I have alot of experience with, and would appreciate any advice you could give me. Info on what to stay away from, and what is well-known to function well is especially welcome. (Of course, if anyone has spare parts that would suit my needs they would be willing to part with for a reasonable price, please contact me also :) A major problem that I can see is running out of PCI-slots. I also need a good-quality sound-card, and I'm currently considering Delta 1010LT, Delta 66 or Delta 44 from M-Audio, and while they have other FireWire/USB offerings, all these that I've mentioned are PCI. Sorry for the long post, but I felt it was necessary to include as much information as I could think of. If I've left anything relevant out, please do not hesitate to ask me to clarify. I just love this machine so much that I really don't want to part with it to get something new unless absolutely necessary. Thanks in advance, Petter Adsem -- --- "Parity is for farmers" - Seymour Cray From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 14:31:12 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Fri Jun 1 14:31:21 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> To be pedantic you actually have space and hardware to mount two extra drives. One mounts over the existing drive, and assuming you don't want a second optical drive the other mounts under the CD/DVD. The wiring harnesses are already there waiting. It's the work of a few minutes (and there are Internet sites to show you exactly how). The only advantage of the external Firewire hard drive is that you can share it with other (non networked) computers. Mounting the drive internally will be faster. I would suggest you keep the existing 'system' drive as is and use your new drive for all media and virtual ram disk space. FWIW Perry ________________________________________ From: Michelle A)? install it INTO my Sawtooth in the "second" drive available spot? (I didn't know there was such a spot/slot...) B) replace the current (27GB?) hard drive with this new, bigger drive of 120 GB C) put this new drive into a firewire enclosure (for about $50 more?), and use it as an "external" storage/drive IF I chose to do Option C, why would that (or would that) be faster than just buying an external firewire hard drive in the first place? I am not a technician in ANY way, but I did manage to follow the specific directions thus far to upgrade this computer. I primarily need the upgrades now to handle my work with Photoshop. Buying a new Mac is just not in the budget at this time. From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 15:15:44 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:15:52 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <465FF20C.9030909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e301c7a49a$68e5adb0$0300000a@perrywin> Hi Petter As we say in UK - snap! (I have a G4 Mac DP450) I already had lots of disk space (I work with professional video): 1) I've mounted two extra drives internally (5 minute job!) 2) I've got a fast SCSII card with a RAID array in an external enclosure 3) I've got several external Firewire drives that I use. I needed to upgrade the processors because several applications now need a faster system as a minimum. You have three basic G4 processor upgrade choices: a) 7455 b) 7447A c) 7448 These are respective developments of the G4 chip that get faster, and in the latter case more efficient and therefore cooler running. As is always the case, the later and faster chips are far more expensive. The fastest around seems to be about 2GHz. You basically pays your money and makes your choice - there is LOTS of information on the web from sites like xlr8yourmac.com. I've just bought a twin 7455 upgrade by 'PowerLogix' from a company called Other World Computing (OWC) that happily ship to UK. It was a very good price ($299) and is enough (2x1.2GHz) for my needs. The video card is a far more interesting area! Basically our G4 Mac is 2xAGP which is pretty limiting. (Current cards are 8xAGP or PCI Express) There were relatively few cards made that fitted the 2xAGP slot and none now meet the requirements of 'Core Image' needed to fully support Tiger (OSX 10.4) and the future. There are several vendors on eBay that sell converted PC cards that supposedly meet the needs. I've gone for a Radeon 9500 card that supposedly meets Core Image performance but sadly I'm having to lose the ADC support for my old Apple LCD. Importantly for me it offers a basic support for OS9. It also supports two monitors so I can now lose the PCI video card that will free a slot. (I have a three monitor set-up!) I'll tell you all how I get on in a week or three! FWIW Perry -----Original Message----- From: Petter Adsen I've been using this machine (see subject) as my main workstation for several years now, but I've found it's really about time to do somthing to increase performance. etc From happydog at northmo.net Fri Jun 1 15:27:37 2007 From: happydog at northmo.net (Michelle) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:20:08 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> References: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: Thanks everyone for the helpful responses, suggestions and explanations. I watched one of the online "how to" videos on the OWC site and I think I can handle installing an *internal* second drive. With my current budget, going the "slave" route is what I will do, and NOT get the PCI card (is that what it's called?) in addition, that would allow me to have the better/faster new internal 2nd drive (the "S" ATA one?) (All of this tech language is still new to me, sorry if I am butchering it as I probably am...) For now, anything will be an improvement. And I may ultimately get an external FW drive (enclosure that I "put together" myself, probably) - to use for backing up files for BOTH my G4 Sawtooth desktop AND my iBook G4 laptop. The video I saw online isn't exactly what I'll need to follow, as that one was for a G4 but was NOT for the "slave" type... this video showed you also getting a new PCI "card". But it didn't look incredibly difficult, and I'm assuming that the new drive will come with clear installation instructions (or I can search online, or ask all of you, haha). Thanks again and I'll let you know next week how it goes. It should arrive early in the week. Take care, Michelle From sng at cox.net Fri Jun 1 15:32:26 2007 From: sng at cox.net (Steve Goldstein) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:32:48 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: OOPS! You cannot install a Serial ATA (SATA) drive in your G4 Sawtooth UNLESS you get a PCI SATA card, and that will set you back about $50. You can install a plain old [parallel] EIDE/ATA drive using the extra 80-wire ribbon connector that should already be there on your machine (on the ribbon itself) as sell as an extra 4-pin power supply connector that should also be there. The "slave" just refers to the setting that you make by placing the little "jumpers" on your drive on the proper pins (every drive should have an illustration printed on it for "Master," "Slave" and "Cable Select"). Most machines let you use Cable Select on both drives, but if your current drive is set up as Master, then set up the new one as Slave. At 5:27 PM -0500 6/1/07, Michelle wrote: >Thanks everyone for the helpful responses, suggestions and explanations. I watched one of the online "how to" videos on the OWC site and I think I can handle installing an *internal* second drive. With my current budget, going the "slave" route is what I will do, and NOT get the PCI card (is that what it's called?) in addition, that would allow me to have the better/faster new internal 2nd drive (the "S" ATA one?) Nope, not SATA. EIDE/ATA only! --Steve From happydog at northmo.net Fri Jun 1 15:54:54 2007 From: happydog at northmo.net (Michelle) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:47:22 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: Sorry if I didn't explain right... again, the "lingo" is unfamiliar to me. I am NOT getting the (faster, better?) SATA internal hard drive at this time. In part due to $$ and the need for the additional "card" to make it work, etc. I am getting the other one... I think it is called "PATA"... even though it may not be super fast, it will be a huge improvement over my puny, tiny 27GB hard drive that I have now, the one that came w/the Sawtooth when I bought it, used, years ago. It's really the additional hard disk space that I need right now, and at a bargain-basement price! Thanks, Michelle From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 15:59:24 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:59:25 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00e401c7a4a0$80d34300$0300000a@perrywin> I remember reading a review between otherwise identical drives that were PATA and SATA. There was no detectable difference in speed! Your new drive will be heaps faster than your existing drive simply because it is newer and things move on! Incidentally - to get the best price for drives you buy them in a so called OEM package. This comes with zero support! You don't even get the screws - not a problem for you folks over the pond but a difficulty here in 'metric' land! Drives usually come with a sticker on the case telling you how the jumpers go to give you 'slave' etc. They will also need formatting for the Mac. Perry -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Sorry if I didn't explain right... again, the "lingo" is unfamiliar to me. I am NOT getting the (faster, better?) SATA internal hard drive at this time. In part due to $$ and the need for the additional "card" to make it work, etc. I am getting the other one... I think it is called "PATA"... even though it may not be super fast, it will be a huge improvement over my puny, tiny 27GB hard drive that I have now, the one that came w/the Sawtooth when I bought it, used, years ago. It's really the additional hard disk space that I need right now, and at a bargain-basement price! From mos125 at comcast.net Fri Jun 1 17:50:48 2007 From: mos125 at comcast.net (Thomas Brooks) Date: Fri Jun 1 17:50:55 2007 Subject: [G4] Question about Firewire enclosure / hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <00dc01c7a494$2e57a780$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: <04d516a300ae9b9b0e6307ae445aaa98@comcast.net> Michelle: One last suggestion since you are now well on your way to a solution. Once you have formatted and installed an OS your new Hard Drive use Carbon Copy Cloner to make an exact copy of your existing 27GB on your new drive. If your old drive fails or becomes unreadable you can just make the new drive your startup drive, expand the CCC disk image and you will be back to work immediately. If the old drive can be reformatted and repaired you can transfer the CCC file back to it. If old drive is unusable you can then replace it with another new drive and start over again. It is easy to make either drive your startup by using the Startup Disk Preference pane. Run CCC periodically to back up one drive to the other and you will always be covered. You may already know all of this. I learned the hard way when my original 10GB disk got corrupted an I almost lost all my data. Tom ### On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:54 PM, Michelle wrote: > Sorry if I didn't explain right... again, the "lingo" is unfamiliar to > me. I am NOT getting the (faster, better?) SATA internal hard drive at > this time. In part due to $$ and the need for the additional "card" to > make it work, etc. > > I am getting the other one... I think it is called "PATA"... even > though it may not be super fast, it will be a huge improvement over my > puny, tiny 27GB hard drive that I have now, the one that came w/the > Sawtooth when I bought it, used, years ago. > > It's really the additional hard disk space that I need right now, and > at a bargain-basement price! > > Thanks, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 06:37:32 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Sun Jun 3 06:37:34 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <465FF20C.9030909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <019e01c7a5e4$577dd7a0$0300000a@perrywin> Open question: What would be considered the best OEM or retail video card ever made that fitted the AGP x2 slot in this computer? Perry From kastegir at mac.com Mon Jun 4 08:01:46 2007 From: kastegir at mac.com (Hal) Date: Mon Jun 4 08:02:01 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <019e01c7a5e4$577dd7a0$0300000a@perrywin> References: <019e01c7a5e4$577dd7a0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: I'd guess that would be either the Radeon 8500 or the GeForce3 (both OEM 2xAGP cards with 64MB of VRAM) I believe there was a retail version of the 128MB Radeon 9000 card as well Just my $0.02. -Hal On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Perry Mitchell wrote: > Open question: > > What would be considered the best OEM or retail video card ever > made that > fitted the AGP x2 slot in this computer? > > Perry From r.ramsowr at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 4 08:42:44 2007 From: r.ramsowr at sbcglobal.net (Richard Ramsowr) Date: Mon Jun 4 08:43:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <116882.94679.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hal Would these cards also service as updates for a QuickSilver 733? I would think so but second opinions are always welcomed and useful... Rick therepguy Houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- Hal wrote: > I'd guess that would be either the Radeon 8500 or > the GeForce3 (both > OEM 2xAGP cards with 64MB of VRAM) I believe there > was a retail > version of the 128MB Radeon 9000 card as well > > Just my $0.02. > > -Hal > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Perry Mitchell wrote: > > > Open question: > > > > What would be considered the best OEM or retail > video card ever > > made that > > fitted the AGP x2 slot in this computer? > > > > Perry > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage > Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From galilao at lava.net Mon Jun 4 15:43:33 2007 From: galilao at lava.net (Bruce Ryan Nakamura) Date: Mon Jun 4 15:44:26 2007 Subject: [G4] MDD software question Message-ID: Hello, Has anybody with a mirrored drive doors Powermac G4 noticed that moving up from Jaguar to Panther to Tiger goes OK, but if you want to run older software that requires going back to Jaguar or Panther, the MDD freezes or hangs at installing the previous OS even if the Erase everything option is selected? Curiously yours, Bruce Ryan Nakamura From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 01:32:15 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Tue Jun 5 01:32:16 2007 Subject: [G4] Questions on upgrading a dual G4/450 Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <116882.94679.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701c7a74c$071f18a0$0300000a@perrywin> To pass on my new found (but VERY limited) knowledge - there are pretty fundamental differences between video cards for the AGPx2 (as used on above G4) and the AGPx4 as used in the Quicksilver. Although single cards can and have been made to meet both standards, there are more that are only AGPx4(and better). This is especially important if you want to get a system meeting Apple's 'Core Image' specification. The bottom line is that you have more options for Quicksilver. What is a killer is wanting to support an ADC monitor without an adaptor on a Core Image system. Progress - don't you just love it! Perry -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ramsowr Would these cards also service as updates for a QuickSilver 733? I would think so but second opinions are always welcomed and useful... From tom578 at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 5 07:16:25 2007 From: tom578 at rochester.rr.com (Thomas J. Fobia) Date: Tue Jun 5 07:16:32 2007 Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! Message-ID: <46657039.4010104@rochester.rr.com> Hello all, Today I seem to be running into a font problem. Its showing up on certain web pages (like Gizmodo) when I use Safari and even parts of my news group digests in my email on Netscape. The font looks like "Year 2000" in the font book. My wife was messing around with some fonts she downloaded and somehow its affecting these two browsers. Is there a default font somewhere that these two apps are referencing and can I reset it? Any suggestion would help! Thanks! Tom From jonseward at mindspring.com Tue Jun 5 12:00:52 2007 From: jonseward at mindspring.com (jonseward@mindspring.com) Date: Tue Jun 5 12:00:57 2007 Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! Message-ID: <380-2200762519052789@M2W009.mail2web.com> Hi Tom, In the Safari header tab, pull down and click on Preferences. The Second Preference category is Appearance. You can then select the default fonts of your choice. Mine are Times 16 and Courier 13. Not sure if I changed that from the original install.... HTH, jon Original Message: ----------------- From: Thomas J. Fobia tom578@rochester.rr.com Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:16:25 -0400 To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! Hello all, Today I seem to be running into a font problem. Its showing up on certain web pages (like Gizmodo) when I use Safari and even parts of my news group digests in my email on Netscape. The font looks like "Year 2000" in the font book. My wife was messing around with some fonts she downloaded and somehow its affecting these two browsers. Is there a default font somewhere that these two apps are referencing and can I reset it? Any suggestion would help! Thanks! Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From tom578 at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 5 19:22:59 2007 From: tom578 at rochester.rr.com (tom578@rochester.rr.com) Date: Tue Jun 5 19:23:06 2007 Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! In-Reply-To: <380-2200762519052789@M2W009.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200762519052789@M2W009.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon. I checked my pref's in Safari and my settings had not changed. Somehow I managed to correct the problem with the "Times 2000" font showing up in some of my email and certain webpages. Dont know how I did it spicifically but at least it has been corrected. Thanks again! Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonseward@mindspring.com" Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2007 3:01 pm Subject: RE: [G4] Font problem...need help! To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > Hi Tom, > > In the Safari header tab, pull down and click on Preferences. The > SecondPreference category is Appearance. You > can then select the default fonts of your choice. Mine are Times > 16 and > Courier 13. Not sure if I changed that from > the original install.... > > HTH, > > jon > > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Thomas J. Fobia tom578@rochester.rr.com > Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:16:25 -0400 > To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! > > > Hello all, > > Today I seem to be running into a font problem. Its showing up > on > certain web pages (like Gizmodo) when I use Safari and even parts > of my > news group digests in my email on Netscape. The font looks like > "Year > 2000" in the font book. My wife was messing around with some fonts > she > downloaded and somehow its affecting these two browsers. Is there a > default font somewhere that these two apps are referencing and can > I > reset it? Any suggestion would help! Thanks! > > Tom > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From harry at gifutiger.com Tue Jun 5 20:05:13 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Tue Jun 5 20:05:18 2007 Subject: [G4] Font problem...need help! In-Reply-To: <46657039.4010104@rochester.rr.com> References: <46657039.4010104@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: Greetings ( + )!( + ) If your not using any special fonts, find the file "com.apple.FontBook.plist" it should be in your user/Library/Preferences folder. Then delete the file (move to trash) the restart the platform. When the OS reboots, it will recreate the file from the installed default font book. ---------------------------------------------------- On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Thomas J. Fobia wrote: > Hello all, > > Today I seem to be running into a font problem. Its showing up on > certain web pages (like Gizmodo) when I use Safari and even parts of > my news group digests in my email on Netscape. The font looks like > "Year 2000" in the font book. My wife was messing around with some > fonts she downloaded and somehow its affecting these two browsers. Is > there a default font somewhere that these two apps are referencing and > can I reset it? Any suggestion would help! Thanks! > > Tom > _______________________________________________ Cheers, /\*_*/\ Harry (*^_^*) * If pro is the opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress? Congress! Men's restroom House of Representatives, Washington, DC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1355 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070605/e2bb7a9c/attachment.bin From tom578 at rochester.rr.com Wed Jun 6 07:28:34 2007 From: tom578 at rochester.rr.com (Thomas J. Fobia) Date: Wed Jun 6 07:28:45 2007 Subject: [G4] OSX Mail App! Message-ID: <6BCB8230-A65F-4060-98F9-8B73BAC0675B@rochester.rr.com> Hello All, I have just lost my Netscape 7.2 that I was using for my email! I have decided to switch to the OSX mail application and managed to get my main email up and running! I have two other email "Names" on the same server on my road runner account and Im having trouble getting them set up! They are all "POP" addresses and when I want to add a second address It says I already have a POP address. I tried "POP account2" but that didn't work either! Am I missing something here? Netscape was easier to add an account, why is this apple app more difficult? Thanks! Tom From briang113 at pacbell.net Wed Jun 6 07:57:42 2007 From: briang113 at pacbell.net (B G) Date: Wed Jun 6 07:57:52 2007 Subject: [G4] OSX Mail App! In-Reply-To: <6BCB8230-A65F-4060-98F9-8B73BAC0675B@rochester.rr.com> References: <6BCB8230-A65F-4060-98F9-8B73BAC0675B@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: <6E2A648A-5975-4B93-944F-F68865F4A2CA@pacbell.net> Are you in Mail prefrences/accounts and clicking the add(+) button? I have numerous POP account in my Apple Mail program with no problems. BG On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:28 AM, Thomas J. Fobia wrote: > Hello All, I have just lost my Netscape 7.2 that I was using for my > email! I have decided to switch to the OSX mail application and > managed to get my main email up and running! I have two other email > "Names" on the same server on my road runner account and Im having > trouble getting them set up! They are all "POP" addresses and when > I want to add a second address It says I already have a POP > address. I tried "POP account2" but that didn't work either! Am I > missing something here? Netscape was easier to add an account, why > is this apple app more difficult? > Thanks! > Tom > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From Terry.Hirsch at nashville.gov Wed Jun 6 08:26:27 2007 From: Terry.Hirsch at nashville.gov (Hirsch, Terry (ITS - Metro3)) Date: Wed Jun 6 08:26:49 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding RAM Message-ID: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> Greetings, I am looking to add more RAM to my GigE DP500 and have heard that Mac's require non-parity chips. Can I safely put a PC100 512 Mb. stick from a similiar vintage PC into the G4? TIA. Terry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070606/51b97cc2/attachment.html From g4-lisz at tonarchiv.ch Wed Jun 6 08:49:32 2007 From: g4-lisz at tonarchiv.ch (Till Wimmer) Date: Wed Jun 6 08:49:53 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding RAM In-Reply-To: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> References: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> Message-ID: <4666D78C.1010207@tonarchiv.ch> Hirsch, Terry (ITS - Metro3) wrote: > Greetings, > > I am looking to add more RAM to my GigE DP500 and have heard that > Mac's require non-parity chips. Can I safely put a PC100 512 Mb. stick > from a similiar vintage PC into the G4? > TIA. Yes this should work. You need unbuffered PC100 RAM, 64Mx64 architecture with no parity (8 chips on the board). I suggest to put memory sticks with the same or better specifications (CL2 better than CL3, PC100/133 better than PC66) than the ones already installed. PC133 will work, too. Till > > Terry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From m.buetow at mac.com Wed Jun 6 13:09:09 2007 From: m.buetow at mac.com (Mike Buetow) Date: Wed Jun 6 13:09:50 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding RAM In-Reply-To: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> References: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> Message-ID: I would suggest you visit macsales.com ( otherworld computing). They have exactly what you need as far as memory goes for your mac. Well that plus a whole lot more, and their prices are very reasonable too. On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Hirsch, Terry (ITS - Metro3) wrote: > Greetings, > ? > I am looking to add more RAM to my GigE?DP500 and have?heard that > Mac's?require non-parity chips. Can I safely put?a PC100 512 Mb.?stick > from?a similiar vintage PC?into the G4? > TIA. > ? > Terry?_______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1048 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070606/8a8a577a/attachment.bin From macandlinuxuser at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 15:12:49 2007 From: macandlinuxuser at gmail.com (Patrick J. Runcie) Date: Wed Jun 6 15:12:56 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding RAM In-Reply-To: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> References: <13FEE8B13DF810488DBF665E89CF60ED043DCC57@HOBVSISMS02.nashville.org> Message-ID: <9402684F-1EF7-4518-BE45-922FB1AFA594@gmail.com> It will work. I would suggest stay with the same maker, to avoid compatibility issues.. You can use PC133, and try to get CL2 ram. Even in the late '80s, running a Intel 386, it was recommended. It could increase your speed by as much as 25%. On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Hirsch, Terry (ITS - Metro3) wrote: > Greetings, > > I am looking to add more RAM to my GigE DP500 and have heard that > Mac's require non-parity chips. Can I safely put a PC100 512 Mb. > stick from a similiar vintage PC into the G4? > TIA. > > Terry > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 Patrick J. Runcie macandlinuxuser@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070606/8c7e85da/attachment.html From philba333 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 6 16:38:50 2007 From: philba333 at hotmail.com (Phillip Brown) Date: Wed Jun 6 16:38:59 2007 Subject: [G4] OSX Mail App! In-Reply-To: <6E2A648A-5975-4B93-944F-F68865F4A2CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Hello, I can't even set up a simple Hotmail account. I am very familiar with Macs but not email or servers. What settings do i use to get a Hotmail account going? PB >From: B G >Reply-To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." > >To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." > >Subject: Re: [G4] OSX Mail App! >Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 07:57:42 -0700 > >Are you in Mail prefrences/accounts and clicking the add(+) button? > >I have numerous POP account in my Apple Mail program with no problems. > >BG > > >On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:28 AM, Thomas J. Fobia wrote: > >>Hello All, I have just lost my Netscape 7.2 that I was using for my >>email! I have decided to switch to the OSX mail application and managed >>to get my main email up and running! I have two other email "Names" on >>the same server on my road runner account and Im having trouble getting >>them set up! They are all "POP" addresses and when I want to add a second >>address It says I already have a POP address. I tried "POP account2" but >>that didn't work either! Am I missing something here? Netscape was easier >>to add an account, why is this apple app more difficult? >>Thanks! >>Tom >>_______________________________________________ >>G4 mailing list >>G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >>http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >> >>Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > >Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Live Earth ‘07 – artist line-up, Windows Live alerts & tickets. http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=790&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://liveearth.ninemsn.com.au From brettcaven at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 21:10:14 2007 From: brettcaven at gmail.com (Brett Caven) Date: Wed Jun 6 21:10:29 2007 Subject: [G4] OSX Mail App! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hotmail uses a proprietary format (known as HTTP in Outlook?) which only works with seasoned account (about three/four years old now) and paid accounts. Sadly, you'll either have to live with the god-awful web interface, dish out some cash, or upgrade to a better email service (may I recommend Gmail from Google). --- -Brett On 6/Jun/07, at 8:38 PM, Phillip Brown wrote: > Hello, > I can't even set up a simple Hotmail account. I am very familiar > with Macs but not email or servers. What settings do i use to get a > Hotmail account going? > > PB > > >> From: B G >> Reply-To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." >> >> To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." >> >> Subject: Re: [G4] OSX Mail App! >> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 07:57:42 -0700 >> >> Are you in Mail prefrences/accounts and clicking the add(+) button? >> >> I have numerous POP account in my Apple Mail program with no >> problems. >> >> BG >> >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:28 AM, Thomas J. Fobia wrote: >> >>> Hello All, I have just lost my Netscape 7.2 that I was using for >>> my email! I have decided to switch to the OSX mail application >>> and managed to get my main email up and running! I have two >>> other email "Names" on the same server on my road runner account >>> and Im having trouble getting them set up! They are all "POP" >>> addresses and when I want to add a second address It says I >>> already have a POP address. I tried "POP account2" but that >>> didn't work either! Am I missing something here? Netscape was >>> easier to add an account, why is this apple app more difficult? >>> Thanks! >>> Tom >>> _______________________________________________ >>> G4 mailing list >>> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >>> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >>> >>> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and >>> random stuff: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >> >> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >> stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Advertisement: Live Earth ?07 ? artist line-up, Windows Live alerts > & tickets. http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp? > mode=click&clientID=790&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http:// > liveearth.ninemsn.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From jkindrachuk at accesscomm.ca Sat Jun 9 07:48:56 2007 From: jkindrachuk at accesscomm.ca (JPKindrachuk) Date: Sat Jun 9 07:49:11 2007 Subject: [G4] Quicksilver Video Card Message-ID: Hi All, I have subscribed for a while and have found the information presented here valuable though I have never had a need to post a question. However, I have a Dual 800 Quicksilver with Nvidea GeForce 4 Titanium card that appears to have quit on me. I was wondering what is available to replace this card and where I would be able to purchase it. The Display I am currently running is an Apple LCD with the ADC connection. Thanks for any help. Jack From ftf at mac.com Sat Jun 9 07:59:15 2007 From: ftf at mac.com (Fabian Fang) Date: Sat Jun 9 07:59:26 2007 Subject: [G4] Quicksilver Video Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 9, 2007, at 7:48 AM, JPKindrachuk wrote: > I have a Dual 800 Quicksilver with Nvidea GeForce 4 Titanium card > that appears to > have quit on me. > > I was wondering what is available to replace this card and where I > would be > able to purchase it. The Display I am currently running is an Apple > LCD with > the ADC connection. OWC sells assorted video cards and display adapters for G4 Macs: Fabian From macandlinuxuser at gmail.com Sat Jun 9 08:04:50 2007 From: macandlinuxuser at gmail.com (Patrick J. Runcie) Date: Sat Jun 9 08:05:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Quicksilver Video Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D523413-26BC-4B4D-AADD-5D152E8A84C5@gmail.com> Myself, I use the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/256mb, on a DVI LCD monitor. You can get your card or the ATI on eBay with no problem. On Jun 9, 2007, at 10:48 AM, JPKindrachuk wrote: > Hi All, > > I have subscribed for a while and have found the information > presented here > valuable though I have never had a need to post a question. > However, I have > a Dual 800 Quicksilver with Nvidea GeForce 4 Titanium card that > appears to > have quit on me. > > I was wondering what is available to replace this card and where I > would be > able to purchase it. The Display I am currently running is an Apple > LCD with > the ADC connection. > > Thanks for any help. > > Jack > Patrick J. Runcie macandlinuxuser@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070609/1a65d4f8/attachment.html From ronparro at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 22:31:25 2007 From: ronparro at earthlink.net (Ron 'Hollywood' Parro) Date: Sat Jun 9 22:32:16 2007 Subject: [G4] Can't play video Message-ID: <82e6e69e2d606a32fbec750a36fac31f@earthlink.net> Fellow Mac Addicts, I can't figure out what is wrong with my G4 PowerBook. It 'skips' while running videos from all web sites. YouTube is useless to me and I have tried Amazon's reader as well. I tried downloading the video first (Amazon) and waiting till the slider bar indicates the video has been fully downloaded (YouTube). I get short videos attached to e-mails that play fine. This is a relative new phenomenon and I can't remember any changes that might have affected this. Help!! Ron 'Hollywood' Parro ;>{) http://www.greality.com/Hollywood/ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." ? Benjamin Franklin From pantry at hotmail.com Sat Jun 9 23:05:34 2007 From: pantry at hotmail.com (H F) Date: Sat Jun 9 23:05:47 2007 Subject: [G4] Can't play video In-Reply-To: <82e6e69e2d606a32fbec750a36fac31f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: What is your Powerbooks config, is this something new, have you made any recent changes to your os or added apps or widgets or... > >Fellow Mac Addicts, > I can't figure out what is wrong with my G4 PowerBook. It 'skips' while >running videos from all web sites. YouTube is useless to me and I have >tried Amazon's reader as well. I tried downloading the video first (Amazon) >and waiting till the slider bar indicates the video has been fully >downloaded (YouTube). I get short videos attached to e-mails that play >fine. This is a relative new phenomenon and I can't remember any changes >that might have affected this. >Help!! > >Ron 'Hollywood' Parro ;>{) >http://www.greality.com/Hollywood/ >"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy >to none." > — Benjamin Franklin >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > >Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 From wayne at troutnc.com Sun Jun 10 06:44:06 2007 From: wayne at troutnc.com (Wayne Clodfelter) Date: Sun Jun 10 06:44:24 2007 Subject: [G4] Can't play video In-Reply-To: <82e6e69e2d606a32fbec750a36fac31f@earthlink.net> References: <82e6e69e2d606a32fbec750a36fac31f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <466C0026.9080202@troutnc.com> Ron 'Hollywood' Parro wrote: > Fellow Mac Addicts, > I can't figure out what is wrong with my G4 PowerBook. It 'skips' > while running videos from all web sites. YouTube is useless to me and I > have tried Amazon's reader as well. I tried downloading the video first > (Amazon) and waiting till the slider bar indicates the video has been > fully downloaded (YouTube). I get short videos attached to e-mails that > play fine. This is a relative new phenomenon and I can't remember any > changes that might have affected this. > Help!! > > Ron 'Hollywood' Parro ;>{) > http://www.greality.com/Hollywood/ > "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, > enemy to none." > ? Benjamin Franklin > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > Could it be that the drive that holds the directory where the browser's temp file is located could be running out of storage space? Are you monitoring CPU loading (I use MenuMeters)? Perhaps your CPU is not keeping up. From dancurr at frontiernet.net Sun Jun 10 14:52:15 2007 From: dancurr at frontiernet.net (Dan A Currie) Date: Sun Jun 10 14:52:27 2007 Subject: [G4] G 3/4 and iTunes Message-ID: <466C728F.7060302@frontiernet.net> Hello All, My daughters FrankenMac ( G3 > G4/400, 768 MB RAM, 8 GB HD and OS 10.2.8 ) has suddenly decided to no longer open iTunes 6.0.5, which she has been using for some time. I tried clicking on the alias in the dock and it bounces for a few times then stops, I tried double clicking on it in the Apps folder and it goes dark, tries to open then stops. I even tried using File > Open in the apps folder, still no joy. I have reloaded iTunes 6.0.5 and still the same. I installed and ran OnyX for this OS version about a week ago and this is the first time my daughter has tried to open iTunes since then. Help?? Dan Currie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070610/36f8a334/attachment.html From jimash at optonline.net Sun Jun 10 15:58:27 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Sun Jun 10 15:58:39 2007 Subject: [G4] G 3/4 and iTunes In-Reply-To: <466C728F.7060302@frontiernet.net> References: <466C728F.7060302@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Jun 10, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Dan A Currie wrote: > I installed and ran OnyX for this OS version about a week ago and > this is the first time my daughter has tried to open iTunes since > then. > > Help?? You could try going into the library/preferences folder and ditch the iTunes prefs and see if it opens after that. user/library/preferences/com.apple.iTunes/plist ----Just try moving it to the trash or desktop. It will generrate a new one. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070610/4f1a3379/attachment.html From dancurr at frontiernet.net Mon Jun 11 13:26:03 2007 From: dancurr at frontiernet.net (Dan A Currie) Date: Mon Jun 11 13:26:13 2007 Subject: [G4] G 3/4 and iTunes In-Reply-To: References: <466C728F.7060302@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <466DAFDB.4090603@frontiernet.net> Hello All, Many helpful suggestions came in but not before I faced a complete meltdown of applications ... more and more refused to open and death was imminent. I was fortunate enough to have only installed the OS and apps on that particular HD so I simply erased and reinstalled OS 10.2.8 and the other necessary apps. Was also a learning experience for my daughter as she actually did most of the reinstallation. Many thanks, Dan Currie From ronsteinke at mac.com Mon Jun 11 22:44:14 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Mon Jun 11 22:49:07 2007 Subject: [G4] G 3/4 and iTunes In-Reply-To: <466DAFDB.4090603@frontiernet.net> References: <466C728F.7060302@frontiernet.net> <466DAFDB.4090603@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <29788B5F-A1B3-44A6-A1C0-424DD07C2AD0@mac.com> On 11 Jun, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Dan A Currie wrote: > I was fortunate enough to have only installed the OS and apps on > that particular HD so I simply erased and reinstalled OS 10.2.8 and > the other necessary apps. I would suspect that the drive was telling me something and toss it into the trash can - literally - and replace it as soon as I could get to the store. Why risk putting an OS and apps on a drive that is clearly giving you this signal when a replacement won't cost an arm and a leg like they used to? From ronparro at earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 13:41:49 2007 From: ronparro at earthlink.net (Ron 'Hollywood' Parro) Date: Wed Jun 13 13:41:59 2007 Subject: [G4] RE: Can't play video In-Reply-To: <20070611202620.CE28BE8E4C8@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070611202620.CE28BE8E4C8@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Ron 'Hollywood' Parro wrote: > Fellow Mac Addicts, > I can't figure out what is wrong with my G4 PowerBook. It 'skips' > while running videos from all web sites. YouTube is useless to me and > I have tried Amazon's reader as well. I tried downloading the video > first (Amazon) and waiting till the slider bar indicates the video has > been fully downloaded (YouTube). I get short videos attached to > e-mails that play fine. This is a relative new phenomenon and I can't > remember any changes that might have affected this. > Help!! > Ron 'Hollywood' Parro ;>{) > "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, > enemy to none." > ? Benjamin Franklin > _______________________________________________ Could it be that the drive that holds the directory where the browser's temp file is located could be running out of storage space? Are you monitoring CPU loading (I use MenuMeters)? Perhaps your CPU is not keeping up. It could very well be. Thanx for your help guys. I am going to look into that HD full thing. I need to get a bigger HD anyway so maybe that will help fix the problem. I'm also going to try to get that MenuMeters and check the CPU. Thanx again. Ron 'Hollywood' Parro ;>{) "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." ? Plato On Jun 11, 2007, at 2:26 PM, g4-request@listserver.themacintoshguy.com wrote: > RE: Can't play video (H F) From ben.smith at ntlworld.com Wed Jun 13 14:14:46 2007 From: ben.smith at ntlworld.com (Ben Smith) Date: Wed Jun 13 14:15:21 2007 Subject: [G4] MDD Classic help Message-ID: <46705E46.1040108@ntlworld.com> I have just got a MDD 867DP with a faulty HDD, I have replaced the HDD with a new Seagate 250GB and upped the ram to 2GB, my problem is that I have not got the original install disks, I have installed 10.4.9 but I cannot install classic as the 9.2.1 retail CD does not have the right ROM file. Is there anyone who could copy the ROM file from their classic system folder, zip it up and send it to me, then I could copy my retail 9.2.1 cd with the new file in it (and hopefully have it boot correctly), the ROM file should be v9.5.1 or 9.5.2 I believe. Alternatively does anyone know where I can get an MDD restore CD from? (preferably UK version). Many thanks. Ben. From macandlinuxuser at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 18:33:48 2007 From: macandlinuxuser at gmail.com (Patrick J. Runcie) Date: Wed Jun 13 18:33:54 2007 Subject: [G4] MDD Classic help In-Reply-To: <46705E46.1040108@ntlworld.com> References: <46705E46.1040108@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <9B067E13-B938-40D3-9C13-CCB0328CCA65@gmail.com> eBay. On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Ben Smith wrote: > I have just got a MDD 867DP with a faulty HDD, I have replaced the > HDD with a new Seagate 250GB and upped the ram to 2GB, my problem > is that I have not got the original install disks, I have installed > 10.4.9 but I cannot install classic as the 9.2.1 retail CD does not > have the right ROM file. > Is there anyone who could copy the ROM file from their classic > system folder, zip it up and send it to me, then I could copy my > retail 9.2.1 cd with the new file in it (and hopefully have it boot > correctly), the ROM file should be v9.5.1 or 9.5.2 I believe. > Alternatively does anyone know where I can get an MDD restore CD > from? (preferably UK version). > Many thanks. > Ben. > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 Patrick J. Runcie macandlinuxuser@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070613/87d57d93/attachment.html From ronsteinke at mac.com Wed Jun 13 19:23:46 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Wed Jun 13 19:28:42 2007 Subject: [G4] MDD Classic help In-Reply-To: <46705E46.1040108@ntlworld.com> References: <46705E46.1040108@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On 13 Jun, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Ben Smith wrote: > I have just got a MDD 867DP with a faulty HDD, I have replaced the > HDD with a new Seagate 250GB and upped the ram to 2GB, my problem > is that I have not got the original install disks, I have installed > 10.4.9 but I cannot install classic as the 9.2.1 retail CD does not > have the right ROM file. Your problem sounds quite weird. I have never found that a retail OS install CD would need any additional ROM file, unless you are trying to use a machine specific CD like a iMac or eMac install CD set and not a true retail CD. It seems to me that you might be going about the OS-9 installation improperly? Have you tried to start from the CD by holding the "C" key down during bootup? Insert the CD while the Mac is running, restart with the CD inserted, and hold the "C" key down until you see a desktop with a lot of CD images as the background. Then, you will be booted to the CD. If your Mac does start up from the CD, you should then start the installation process - BUT - you need to select the "Clean Install" option in order to install OS-9 without being forced to erase the drive or be stopped by the effort of overwriting the OS-X installation. Also, consider doing a custom installation of OS-9. You don't need all the files that are installed by the "Easy Install" process, so you can eliminate the parts that you know for certain that you can do without because OS-X will be handling those chores for you when the Classic environment is launched. Stuff like internet connection programs, color-sync, printer drivers, modem drivers, etc, can be eliminated without interfering with the normal operation of OS-X. From ewood at izoom.net Fri Jun 15 00:15:00 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Fri Jun 15 00:15:11 2007 Subject: [G4] A fond hello Message-ID: <1181891700.12029.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Eric here. I've just joined the list and want to say hello. I have a G4 "digital audio" model with an OWC G4 1.6 GHz dual upgrade, a Radeon 9800 card, 1.5 gigs of RAM and Fedora Linux 7. Oh, and a third-party keyboard that manages to be incompatible with this particular model's Open Firmware (can't hold "c" to boot a CD, so on). In fact, if anyone has questions about using Linux on a G4, I may be able to provide information. I can say right off that with the upgrades, the system is a screamer. Oh, I upgraded to an LG branded LightScribe DVD burner drive and OS X was hanging up with it due to an incompatibility with Energy Saver. I had to disable drive sleep. Linux hasn't had that issue, however. OK, that's all for now. From ewood at izoom.net Fri Jun 15 14:54:16 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Fri Jun 15 14:54:25 2007 Subject: [G4] A fond hello In-Reply-To: <8754073B6FD55B429AEF19694381018D050805F8@ptolemy.rca.ac.uk> References: <1181891700.12029.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <8754073B6FD55B429AEF19694381018D050805F8@ptolemy.rca.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1181944456.3719.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Stuart and everyone, One disappointment I had with the system was a lack of sound input - the "digital audio" G4 has output only. I also happened to have an Ensoniq PCI sound card available. Upon installing Linux, I found that, at least with Fedora Core 6, the Mac sound was not fully supported. I tried the PC soundcard, and it works beautifully. I do not know of a Mac OS X driver for it, so that makes Linux ultimately useful if getting sound-input, though of course there are other ways to achieve this. I'm simply poor and like to work with what I have. As far as I know, there are few or no working open source CD and DVD burning applications for Mac OS X. Two that I like in Fedora are Brasero and Gnome Baker. Aside from these, I don't know of many particular apps that exist for PPC Linux that are not available for Darwin and OS X. I do like the included Add/Remove Programs function of Fedora Linux, however, as it has a huge selection of free apps, and one can add more by adding repositories, such as Livna RPM and freshrpms.net. The main difference with those repos is they offer "non-free" items such as MPEG and MP3 codecs, and programs such as VLC (VideoLAN Client). As for speed, I feel that Linux is a more efficient OS. I believe that OS X, like Windows Vista (though to a lesser extent) tends to be bloated. I didn't run the system with OS X very much, so a proper speed comparison is difficult. I would need to install it again and purposely compare tasks. One app I enjoy using on Linux is AlephOne, a modern Marathon game engine. http://source.bungie.org in case a link is needed. I've had to compile it by hand, but the dependencies (such as SDL and LUA scripting) are available through Add/Remove. There are plenty of Linux disadvantages, of course. The only Mac games I can run are what will run in Basilisk II, and getting that emulator required the use of freshrpms.net. MoL (Mac-on-Linux) isn't included in any Fedora repository, and I can't get the source from the web site to compile. I'm not a programmer, and can't assess what's wrong with it. Issues with the system being in constant development and with so many of the applications in a like state means that using this system feels like a big beta test that never ends. I can't subscribe to iTunes podcast feeds. There's no flash in the web browsers, aside from "Gnash," which attempts to fill those shoes. I find it slow and not very compatible. So... If you use your G4 because it's a lot nicer than Windows, Mac OS remains the best option. I use Linux on here, aside from the aforementioned hardware issues, because I fancy myself a geek. I also love the PowerPC - it remains a far superior architecture to Intel's, even if Intel's making chips that outperform PPC. I feel that Macintosh and IBM CPUs belong together - alternative choice! End of rant. Eric On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 08:21 +0100, Stuart Franey wrote: > Hi Eric, what version of Linux do you use and what software that you can't get on OS X? How does performance compare between the 2? > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > From: g4-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com on behalf of Eric Wood > Sent: Fri 6/15/2007 8:15 AM > To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > Subject: [G4] A fond hello > > Eric here. I've just joined the list and want to say hello. I have a G4 > "digital audio" model with an OWC G4 1.6 GHz dual upgrade, a Radeon 9800 > card, 1.5 gigs of RAM and Fedora Linux 7. Oh, and a third-party keyboard > that manages to be incompatible with this particular model's Open > Firmware (can't hold "c" to boot a CD, so on). > > In fact, if anyone has questions about using Linux on a G4, I may be > able to provide information. I can say right off that with the upgrades, > the system is a screamer. Oh, I upgraded to an LG branded LightScribe > DVD burner drive and OS X was hanging up with it due to an > incompatibility with Energy Saver. I had to disable drive sleep. Linux > hasn't had that issue, however. > > OK, that's all for now. > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From skygram at gmail.com Fri Jun 15 15:09:15 2007 From: skygram at gmail.com (SKYGRAM) Date: Fri Jun 15 15:09:28 2007 Subject: [G4] A fond hello In-Reply-To: <1181944456.3719.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181891700.12029.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <8754073B6FD55B429AEF19694381018D050805F8@ptolemy.rca.ac.uk> <1181944456.3719.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1c7726e90706151509w41f8f7eeua11b5fbfba780a30@mail.gmail.com> Eric, It is a good rant. I too am playing around with Linux Ubuntu 7.0.4. I use it on an old PC and it is an amazing transformation. It is a steady OS. However it has many drawbacks over the Mac OS-X. I could go into it in greater detail. However what I have learned about Linux is how much of it's many features exists in OS-X. I also can see where OS-X is heading to some degree. On points I always return to my Mac with Tiger as good as that old PC may be it still has it's snags. My Mac G4 is like an old 1950's eight cylinder gas guzzling, fin-winged highway cruser. Possibly a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado. A red one. I just like to sit back and let the damn thing drive itself. Bill From ewood at izoom.net Fri Jun 15 16:45:44 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Fri Jun 15 16:45:53 2007 Subject: [G4] Ubuntu... And Qemu! Message-ID: <1181951144.3719.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Aside from Ubuntu's Debian roots, using it is certainly a lot like using Fedora. Actually, the lack of a root password is Ubuntu is a nice item borrowed from OS X. Fedora still uses root, and configuring the system in any serious way requires that password. I've found Ubuntu to be a little less functional for me, though I couldn't easily say why. One item, however, is Fedora's default to using LVM. I like to install multiple hard drives in a system, and to have an OS automatically use all available drives as one, large volume appeals to me. I am tempted at this point to install another hard drive and test the latest Ubuntu PPC release, and possibly Tiger again. Then I could have the best of both worlds. It is indeed nice to let it drive itself once in a while! I have a bunch of awesome Mac games that I start to miss after a while, such as Halo and Warcraft III. It's too bad there's no non-uber-geek method to make Wine work on Linux PPC. I suppose Darwine still requires an Intel Mac, as well. Qemu on Linux and just "Q" on OS X is a great program, potentially. It offers both system emulation and "user-space" processor emulation that'll let one run an app for a different architecture on your system. That is to say, you could run an i386 Linux program on Linux PPC. I think it's being used to make Intel-native OS X apps work on PPC now, as well, though I don't know of any apps yet that are Intel-only. Good way to keep a G4 or G5 alive, though! Actually, I'm a real emulator nut. I love emulating anything on anything else. Were I a programmer, that'd be my kind of project, along with games of the Daggerfall (Elder Scrolls II) persuasion. That game modernised would be such a treat. Too bad the source code isn't free... Eric From senseamp at yahoo.com Fri Jun 15 17:12:01 2007 From: senseamp at yahoo.com (John Niven) Date: Fri Jun 15 17:12:07 2007 Subject: [G4] A fond hello In-Reply-To: <1181944456.3719.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <398022.92819.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Eric, Well that's a bit like a breath of fresh air :-) I find that mostly mac lists are somewhat less technical than others. Thats OK, and probably reflects the type of user that like their systems for reasons other than the technical. Compared to mine, your system is pretty powerful. I have tried Ubuntu and other variations of Linux. I have used older pc hardware for this as both a learning excercise and an attempt to get something close to the Mac experience out of these otherwise wasted boxes. I even tried it on my G4, but frankly I come up with this reasoning. The core advantage of Apple hardware is it can run MacOS. No other hardware can do this. If I can run a MacOS on a system then I do. Other hardware is easy and cheap to get hold of. Most Linux is written for the x86 platform anyway. I think that Apple owes alot to the open source community. I find OSX has tranformed the value of my Apple hardware in my work. I interface with Unix (Sun) systems all the time. With X11 this is a natural. I also run Microsoft Office, and use Entourage to read my company mail and plan meetings through an otherwise PC only Exchange server. I can also handle all the documents that my PC workmates send me. I'm all for open source (free is good!) but I cannot justify running anything other than MacOS on an Apple machine. BTW I have a Digidesign Audiomedia III PCI soundcard in my "Audio" G4. The only problem is it limits me to Jaguar. I run an older version of Protools on it. Very cheap on eBay. But doesn't your G4 have a built-in sound-in (Mic/line) input? You can also download Audacity and be recording for free. Cheers, John --- Eric Wood wrote: > > Eric here. I've just joined the list and want to > say hello. I have a G4 > > "digital audio" model with an OWC G4 1.6 GHz dual > upgrade, a Radeon 9800 > > card, 1.5 gigs of RAM and Fedora Linux 7. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php From ewood at izoom.net Sat Jun 16 10:50:36 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Sat Jun 16 10:50:50 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: <398022.92819.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <398022.92819.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1182016236.9595.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello John, I have no audio input whatsoever from Apple on this machine. I was quite shocked to say the least - it broke a tradition as old as the Mac itself of including some kind of microphone input (but then, the iMac began a new tradition of dropping legacy technology, didn't it?). I was just watching the WWDC07 when I decided to take a net break and saw your message, by the way. I love the look of Leopard and would love to use it. I have to wonder how well it runs on anything older than a G5 with a really nice video card, however. One thing I like about the Linux experience is it's done away with the pre-Intel Mac's traditional slow web browsing performance. But going back to audio, I was just trying to record from an AV source converted to the sound card's line-in, and I found it playing through my left speaker only. But speaking of Audacity, it is indeed what I was trying to use. I haven't tested a different stereo input yet, however, so I don't yet know where that problem's at. I've seldom touched MS Office. I'm using evolution for email now, and OpenOffice 2 comes standard on this system. I so seldom use any office apps, however, that I haven't tested it much. One limitation, though, is that it can't open a ClarisWorks or AppleWorks document. Linux does, like so much other software, tend to favour the x86 platform. Even Apple's doing that, now. I'm surprised at how much PowerPC support exists, though. Fedora started with Fedora Core 5, which is only about a year ago now! Yet it's a very good release that they make, and I prefer it over Ubuntu, SuSE or Yellow Dog. Being as familiar with its workings as I am, I find it the most functional of the lot. Blah dee blah. All for now. Eric On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 17:12 -0700, John Niven wrote: > Hi Eric, > > Well that's a bit like a breath of fresh air :-) > > I find that mostly mac lists are somewhat less > technical than others. Thats OK, and probably reflects > the type of user that like their systems for reasons > other than the technical. > > Compared to mine, your system is pretty powerful. I > have tried Ubuntu and other variations of Linux. I > have used older pc hardware for this as both a > learning excercise and an attempt to get something > close to the Mac experience out of these otherwise > wasted boxes. I even tried it on my G4, but frankly I > come up with this reasoning. > > The core advantage of Apple hardware is it can run > MacOS. > > No other hardware can do this. If I can run a MacOS on > a system then I do. Other hardware is easy and cheap > to get hold of. Most Linux is written for the x86 > platform anyway. > > I think that Apple owes alot to the open source > community. I find OSX has tranformed the value of my > Apple hardware in my work. I interface with Unix (Sun) > systems all the time. With X11 this is a natural. I > also run Microsoft Office, and use Entourage to read > my company mail and plan meetings through an otherwise > PC only Exchange server. I can also handle all the > documents that my PC workmates send me. > > I'm all for open source (free is good!) but I cannot > justify running anything other than MacOS on an Apple > machine. > > BTW I have a Digidesign Audiomedia III PCI soundcard > in my "Audio" G4. The only problem is it limits me to > Jaguar. I run an older version of Protools on it. Very > cheap on eBay. > > But doesn't your G4 have a built-in sound-in > (Mic/line) input? You can also download Audacity and > be recording for free. > > Cheers, > John > > --- Eric Wood wrote: > > > Eric here. I've just joined the list and want to > > say hello. I have a G4 > > > "digital audio" model with an OWC G4 1.6 GHz dual > > upgrade, a Radeon 9800 > > > card, 1.5 gigs of RAM and Fedora Linux 7. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. > http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php > From galilao at lava.net Sat Jun 16 13:39:22 2007 From: galilao at lava.net (Bruce Ryan Nakamura) Date: Sat Jun 16 13:39:47 2007 Subject: [G4] G4 Mirrored Drive Doors question Message-ID: Hello: Can anybody elucidate me about the following situation I am having with my G4 Mirrored Drive Doors Powermac that can boot natively in OS 9. I bought my G4 MDD from the original owner with the original System Restore CD's that came with the MDD from the factory. These CD's have OS 9.2.2 and 10.1.3 on them. When I took delivery of the MDD, the original owner had Tiger on it, but did not install OS 9 because he did not need it. When I tried to install OS 9, what I have found is that this MDD will no longer recognize the original System Restore CD's. In other words if I put CD number 1 into the DVD drive, my MDD will not "see" the CD in the drive. It is as if there is no CD in the drive. The entire MDD was passed by Tech Tools Pro 4 and I have verified that the hard drive and DVD drive are good. My hypothesis is that when the software gets upgraded from 10.1.3 to Jaguar to Panther to Tiger, somewhere along the upgrade path, the software installation also changes the firmware on the board and it won't allow an older system to be installed. I sometimes have kernal panics when trying to reinstall 10.3.2 from a set of Powermac G4 DVDs that I also own. I ended up going to the Honolulu Apple Store and loaded up 10.3 through the Firewire port, since I couldn't load off the DVD's. What do you think? Thank you in advance, Bruce Ryan Nakamura From galilao at lava.net Sat Jun 16 13:39:22 2007 From: galilao at lava.net (Bruce Ryan Nakamura) Date: Sat Jun 16 13:39:51 2007 Subject: [G4] Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD? Message-ID: Hello, Somebody from England on this list, wanted help loading OS 9 on his MDD. I no longer have the original message, so if he will contact me, I might be able to help. As I recall he had Tiger on his MDD. Since I also own a MDD, I can verify that the retail edition of OS 9.2.1 cannot be installed without wiping out the OS X on it and vice-versa. It is necessary to have the System Restore CDs or DVDs that were packed with the MDD from the factory. The exception might be, and I haven't tried it, is to partition the hard drive and put OS X and the retail 9.2.1 on separate partitions. Cordially, Bruce Ryan Nakamura From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Jun 16 13:57:15 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Jun 16 14:02:21 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: <1182016236.9595.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <398022.92819.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1182016236.9595.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <56A883FB-6CF9-48A5-BB5A-019FB04DA06A@mac.com> On 16 Jun, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Eric Wood wrote: > I have no audio input whatsoever from Apple on this machine. I was > quite > shocked to say the least - it broke a tradition as old as the Mac > itself > of including some kind of microphone input I have been following your thread on the use of Linux in a Mac box and finding it very educational. However....... I am not believing your statement as copied above. I do computer recycling for a local organization in Chico, CA, and am their sole Mac technician/volunteer. Every G4 tower that has come through our program has had a built-in microphone socket in the back panel and the default system control panel for sound output/input clearly shows the ability to use the external microphone socket for recording vocal sounds or audio files by use of a microphone or line input cable. Exactly which model Macintosh are you using for your Linux system? If I correctly recall your original posting, you are using a G4 tower? From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Jun 16 14:04:46 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Jun 16 14:09:50 2007 Subject: [G4] Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E8FD2FA-29AF-4A24-AE02-2841499D0BE9@mac.com> On 16 Jun, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: > Since I also own a MDD, I can verify that the retail edition of OS > 9.2.1 > cannot be installed without wiping out the OS X on it and vice-versa. Have you tried doing a "Clean Install"? It seems strange that you cannot select the option for a "Clean Install" of OS-9.2.1 during the first phase of the installation procedure. You should boot to the install CD and select the option for that. I have used this technique many times to install OS-9.x as the Classic environment on everything from a Bondi iMac to G4 eMacs and towers. From senseamp at yahoo.com Sat Jun 16 15:25:56 2007 From: senseamp at yahoo.com (John Niven) Date: Sat Jun 16 15:26:12 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: <56A883FB-6CF9-48A5-BB5A-019FB04DA06A@mac.com> Message-ID: <130161.24946.qm@web51107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Eric said he had a DE G4 tower. I have never seen one of those but the specs agree with him - no sound input! http://support.apple.com/specs/powermac/Power_Mac_G4_Digital_Audio.html I guess the idea was to use a 3rd party usb or firewire connected input. Kinda strange. I'm not sure I understand Apples thinking on that one. Just further reinforces my opinion that Eric has the wrong hardware! John --- Ronald Steinke wrote: > On 16 Jun, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Eric Wood wrote: > > > I have no audio input whatsoever from Apple on > this machine. I was > > quite > > shocked to say the least - it broke a tradition as > old as the Mac > > itself > > of including some kind of microphone input > > > I have been following your thread on the use of > Linux in a Mac box > and finding it very educational. However....... > > I am not believing your statement as copied above. I > do computer > recycling for a local organization in Chico, CA, and > am their sole > Mac technician/volunteer. > > Every G4 tower that has come through our program has > had a built-in > microphone socket in the back panel and the default > system control > panel for sound output/input clearly shows the > ability to use the > external microphone socket for recording vocal > sounds or audio files > by use of a microphone or line input cable. > > Exactly which model Macintosh are you using for your > Linux system? If > I correctly recall your original posting, you are > using a G4 tower? > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage > Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz From galilao at lava.net Sat Jun 16 15:55:00 2007 From: galilao at lava.net (Bruce Ryan Nakamura) Date: Sat Jun 16 15:55:01 2007 Subject: [G4] Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD? In-Reply-To: <4E8FD2FA-29AF-4A24-AE02-2841499D0BE9@mac.com> Message-ID: > On 16 Jun, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: > >> Since I also own a MDD, I can verify that the retail edition of OS >> 9.2.1 >> cannot be installed without wiping out the OS X on it and vice-versa. > > > Have you tried doing a "Clean Install"? > > It seems strange that you cannot select the option for a "Clean > Install" of OS-9.2.1 during the first phase of the installation > procedure. You should boot to the install CD and select the option > for that. I have used this technique many times to install OS-9.x as > the Classic environment on everything from a Bondi iMac to G4 eMacs > and towers. > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 Hello Ronald, Yes, I have selected Clean Install. It will wipe out whatever OS is on the drive, than install OS 9.2.1. Since you are a technician, what is the difference in meaning between Native OS 9 and Classic OS 9? Thank you, Bruce Ryan Nakamura From ffarwell at cox.net Sat Jun 16 16:13:28 2007 From: ffarwell at cox.net (FC Farwell) Date: Sat Jun 16 16:13:33 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: G4 Mirrored Drive Doors question In-Reply-To: <20070616222613.31B19ED761D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070616222613.31B19ED761D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <5FB5CE53-B41F-4EF1-A55F-03FF36F91E80@cox.net> On Jun 16, 2007 > From: Bruce Ryan Nakamura > > > Hello: > > Can anybody elucidate me about the following situation I am having > with my > G4 Mirrored Drive Doors Powermac that can boot natively in OS 9 Ryan does the Hard drive have OS9 drivers installled? I think that if they were not installed when they put OSX on you will have to reformat the drive and make sure and check the box that says install OS9 drivers. F.C. Farwell From ewood at izoom.net Sat Jun 16 18:50:01 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Sat Jun 16 18:50:10 2007 Subject: [G4] MDD issue & G4 sound inputs In-Reply-To: <5FB5CE53-B41F-4EF1-A55F-03FF36F91E80@cox.net> References: <20070616222613.31B19ED761D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <5FB5CE53-B41F-4EF1-A55F-03FF36F91E80@cox.net> Message-ID: <1182045001.3337.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ryan, As long as you can boot from your OS 9 CD, you can get your drive formatted with Drive Setup on the CD and then install OS 9. No OS 9 Driver concerns that way. Then you can put OS X on top of it, and you're probably best off installing Tiger (or whatever version you plan to use) directly, unless there are some bundled applications you want from an earlier version. --- There is a site for identifying different G4 towers. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58418 For Sound Input on the Digital Audio, it says "USB (with third-party adapter)" which in real life, of course, means "NONE!" :D Eric On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 18:13 -0500, FC Farwell wrote: > On Jun 16, 2007 > > > From: Bruce Ryan Nakamura > > > > > > Hello: > > > > Can anybody elucidate me about the following situation I am having > > with my > > G4 Mirrored Drive Doors Powermac that can boot natively in OS 9 > > > Ryan > does the Hard drive have OS9 drivers installled? I think that if they > were not installed when they put OSX on you will have to reformat the > drive and make sure and check the box that says install OS9 drivers. > > F.C. Farwell > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Jun 16 22:15:13 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Jun 16 22:20:15 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: <130161.24946.qm@web51107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <130161.24946.qm@web51107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 16 Jun, 2007, at 3:25 PM, John Niven wrote: > Eric said he had a DE G4 tower. I have never seen one > of those but the specs agree with him - no sound > input! Many thanks for the pointer toward MacTracker. I checked there also and, sure enough, the model Eric has DOES NOT have an audio input socket. Neither do any of the other QuickSilver models, nor the Digital Audio model. Like you, I cannot explain Apple's logic with this situation. It does seem over-strange to delete audio input ability on those models in particular and not on other/later models. Do you think that customer feedback might have brought back the audio input socket? Maybe next year we will start getting QuickSilver models for recycling, but in the mean time, I have a couple pallets of high-end slot-loading iMacs and about half a pallet of earlier G4s than Eric's waiting for me to attack next week. The program I volunteer with refurbishes computers donated by various California government agencies and places them in school classrooms at as low a price as possible. From pantry at hotmail.com Sat Jun 16 23:27:59 2007 From: pantry at hotmail.com (H F) Date: Sat Jun 16 23:28:10 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are you working for Butte Environmental Council or have they been supplanted by something else? >From: Ronald Steinke >Reply-To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." > >To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." > >Subject: Re: [G4] Sound and other concerns >Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:15:13 -0700 > >On 16 Jun, 2007, at 3:25 PM, John Niven wrote: > >>Eric said he had a DE G4 tower. I have never seen one >>of those but the specs agree with him - no sound >>input! > >Many thanks for the pointer toward MacTracker. I checked there also and, >sure enough, the model Eric has DOES NOT have an audio input socket. >Neither do any of the other QuickSilver models, nor the Digital Audio >model. > >Like you, I cannot explain Apple's logic with this situation. It does seem >over-strange to delete audio input ability on those models in particular >and not on other/later models. Do you think that customer feedback might >have brought back the audio input socket? > >Maybe next year we will start getting QuickSilver models for recycling, >but in the mean time, I have a couple pallets of high-end slot-loading >iMacs and about half a pallet of earlier G4s than Eric's waiting for me to >attack next week. The program I volunteer with refurbishes computers >donated by various California government agencies and places them in >school classrooms at as low a price as possible. >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > >Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 _________________________________________________________________ Who's that on the Red Carpet? Play & win glamorous prizes. http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=REDCARPET_hotmailtextlink3 From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Jun 16 23:37:02 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Jun 16 23:42:01 2007 Subject: [G4] Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21F35751-319A-491B-A57D-713162982326@mac.com> On 16 Jun, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: > Yes, I have selected Clean Install. It will wipe out whatever OS > is on the > drive, than install OS 9.2.1. > > Since you are a technician, what is the difference in meaning > between Native > OS 9 and Classic OS 9? Something is not being done properly because the "Clean Install" option is supposed to make it possible to install a brand new version of the operating system without deleting the older or original installation and its contents (extensions, drivers, etc) . This was supposed to be to allow you to install a "non-corrupted" version of the operating system and then use it to determine what was causing the problems with the old system. You could then bring in "extra programs from third party developers" one at a time and test for the problem being resolved. A thought occurred to me that you might be able to make a copy of an OS-9 installation onto a USB drive and then "sneakernet" it to the machine you need it on. From there, it is just a simple drag and drop copy onto the hard drive and then select that system folder as your Classic environment in System Preferences. As an experiment, I just did that exact procedure with an iBook that would not recognize my OS-9.2.1 CD to install from. I made a copy of OS-9.2.2 from my personal G5 tower onto my flash drive, carried it to the iBook, drag and dropped the folder to the hard drive, and checked System Preferences/Startup Disk to see whether the OS-9 folder would be recognized. It was recognized, so I selected it and clicked on the restart button. The iBook restarted to OS-9.2.2 and shows the full contents of the hard drive when I open it. The OS-9 startup disk control panel gave me the choice of either system folder to boot from. I selected OS-X. 4.9 and restarted. It booted in OS-X.4.9. It looks like my drag and drop procedure worked for me, but I can't promise that it will work for you. I'm not a paper certified tech, just a knowledgeable Mac user who does volunteer refurbishing of donated equipment to put into school classrooms. My interpretation of the difference is that Apple has used the title "Classic" to denote all computers, operating systems, and software that is pre-OS-X and that "Native" applies to machines that are capable of booting to OS-9. There probably is a true company definition of those terms, but I haven't been exposed to it yet. In OS-X, programs that are OS-9 or earlier need to have the "Classic" environment running in order for the programs to operate, but it is not the full version of OS-9 and most of the system processes are being handled by OS-X resources. In the Mac User Group that I am a member of, we use the terms interchangeably and usually mean a pre-OS-X item when we say it. From ronsteinke at mac.com Sun Jun 17 00:05:38 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sun Jun 17 00:10:37 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E263C6D-5B02-46C9-8901-9E85B1B0384D@mac.com> On 16 Jun, 2007, at 11:27 PM, H F wrote: > Are you working for Butte Environmental Council or have they been > supplanted by something else? The program I am involved in is not part of Butte EC, but we are affiliated with Cal Dept of Waste Management and other agencies. I do volunteer work with Computers for Classrooms, Inc., of Chico, CA. We receive donated equipment from various California agencies like CalTrans, CHP, Dept of Health Services, etc, and some county agencies and private corporations. When we get equipment, we categorize the units and then do a DoD wipe of the hard drives before doing anything else with the cpus. The cpus get read using MicroScope for the PCs and OS-9.x for the Macs. They also get 'read' for video card, RAM, network cards, etc, and a note put on the front of the case. If the cpus are good enough, they get sorted by processor speed and put in the warehouse until a school puts in a request for that type machine. When a school calls and requests machines, we grab them from the warehouse, configure them with an OS, install certain free programs, and charge the out-of-district schools around $90/cpu with monitor, keyboard, mouse, and cords with a one-year warranty. The program has been operating for over 12 years now, and I have been with it for almost 8 years now. I'm retired from State of California Dept of Corrections, and this keeps me off the streets at night and out from under my wife's feet during the day. Plus, I get a lot more satisfaction out of this work than my previous job at San Quentin State Prison. Working to help kids is a lot more pleasing than working with inmates! We have a program for volunteers who want to earn a computer. If a person volunteers for 50 hours with us, we provide a PC that is configured for Windows 2000-XP and internet capable, usually something like a P-III 600MHz machine with a 17" monitor. If the volunteer wants a Mac, it would be either a high-end iMac slot loader model or a G3 B&W tower. The time does not have to be consecutive hours, it can be an hour at a time. Most of the volunteer workers come in for at least three hours a day and get their computer within a month. For families that can't afford to buy a $500 PC at Office Depot or Circuit City, this is a good deal and we get many volunteers during the summer vacation months. Don't want to tie up the bulletin board with too much bragging about the program. If you want more info, contact me off-line at ronsteinke@mac.com. From perry.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Jun 17 06:57:54 2007 From: perry.mitchell at gmail.com (Perry Mitchell) Date: Sun Jun 17 06:57:50 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <9E263C6D-5B02-46C9-8901-9E85B1B0384D@mac.com> Message-ID: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> I've successfully upgraded my DP450 G4 to DP1.2GHz G4 via a PowerLogix processor kit. I've also got a later Video card. It's all working fine on OS 10.3.9 My question is whether I can now install Tiger? The OWC site (who sell PowerLogix) clearly say compatible with OS 10.4 but the Apple site clearly says that OS X is not compatible with processor upgrades! Before I lay out the UKP89 (that's about $180!) for the retail version of Tiger, I wanted some reassurance from somebody that it would really work? I have access to an OEM version of Tiger sold with a G5 that I was hoping to use to test the system, but it won't load on the G4. Perry From harry at gifutiger.com Sun Jun 17 07:44:43 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sun Jun 17 07:44:54 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> References: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: Greetings ( + )!( + ) Perry you should contact OWC Technical support @ http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm You can not always trust Apple regarding up-grades because they want to sell you a new Mac. and don't want you to make your old one better. I installed the 1.2GHz from PowerLogix about 3 months ago and everything is working just fine, however I haven't up-graded the platform to 10.4 because I haven't found anything in 10.4 that I need therefore it would only be a feel-good up-grade. ---------------------------------------------------- On Jun 17, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Perry Mitchell wrote: > I've successfully upgraded my DP450 G4 to DP1.2GHz G4 via a PowerLogix > processor kit. I've also got a later Video card. It's all working fine > on OS > 10.3.9 > > My question is whether I can now install Tiger? The OWC site (who sell > PowerLogix) clearly say compatible with OS 10.4 but the Apple site > clearly > says that OS X is not compatible with processor upgrades! > Before I lay out the UKP89 (that's about $180!) for the retail version > of > Tiger, I wanted some reassurance from somebody that it would really > work? > > I have access to an OEM version of Tiger sold with a G5 that I was > hoping to > use to test the system, but it won't load on the G4. > > Perry > _______________________________________________ Cheers, /\*_*/\ Harry (*^_^*) * If pro is the opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress? Congress! Men's restroom House of Representatives, Washington, DC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070617/bbe167c6/attachment.bin From jomph at xs4all.nl Sun Jun 17 08:05:21 2007 From: jomph at xs4all.nl (J.M.P.Hissel) Date: Sun Jun 17 08:05:37 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: On 17-06-2007 15:57, Perry Mitchell, perry.mitchell@gmail.com, wrote: > My question is whether I can now install Tiger? The OWC site (who sell > PowerLogix) clearly say compatible with OS 10.4 but the Apple site clearly > says that OS X is not compatible with processor upgrades! A friend installed the same PowerLogix in a DA DP533 (because of the faster busspeed) and runs 10.4.9 flawlessy. And Apple always says that, especially in case of 3d-party upgrades. They are so clever to take no responsibility in that case. IIRC, there has been only one upgrade, supported by Apple, the upgrade of the Quadra 800 to PM 800! > Before I lay out the UKP89 (that's about $180!) for the retail version of > Tiger, I wanted some reassurance from somebody that it would really work? Lot of money!! The same retail version of MacOS 10.4 will cost here (The Netherlands) Euro 87 (= US$ 115) incl. tax. Offer is from an official Dutch Apple retailer (). Jo Hissel From emaxxx4 at warpmail.net Sun Jun 17 08:15:11 2007 From: emaxxx4 at warpmail.net (Eric Buczynski) Date: Sun Jun 17 08:16:14 2007 Subject: [G4] Sound and other concerns In-Reply-To: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Yeah, it doesn't make sense that they would call the model a "Digital Audio" yet not include any sound input. Good thing they didn't codename a Mac "fast computer", or "Stable Mac". For sound input, I use a Griffin iMic. It's a little puck-shaped USB device that has a switch for both recording and sound input, and it doesn't require drivers. It gets the job done. If you're looking for anything beyond that, try the M-Audio line of interfaces. They have USB and Firewire type devices with XLR, RCA, 1/4", and 1/8" inputs. If you're looking for studio-grade components, the Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) brand should fit the bill, but they're also $$. Eric Buczynski From ewood at izoom.net Sun Jun 17 08:59:47 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Sun Jun 17 09:00:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> References: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: <1182095987.13863.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Perry, I can guarantee that a properly installed upgrade (as I'm certain yours is) will not have an issue with Mac OS X. I believe the only truly incompatible upgrades are pre-G3 systems upgraded with G3 or G4 upgrades. Apple likely doesn't "support" the use of third-party upgrades in newer Macs, but the software will run with them. I have a Mac Mini system disc (10.3) that doesn't want to boot with anything else either, and at this time my Mini is dead. It's a shame I can't use my licensed OS and iApps on another system - this OEM system disc nonsense can truly be frustrating. I have two copies of Tiger at the moment, if I can locate them both. One I got before the Mini retail, the other was bundled with it at Best Buy, who decided to take a short break from their PC-onlyness, just as they'd done when I got my bondi blue iMac. Eric On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 14:57 +0100, Perry Mitchell wrote: > I've successfully upgraded my DP450 G4 to DP1.2GHz G4 via a PowerLogix > processor kit. I've also got a later Video card. It's all working fine on OS > 10.3.9 > > My question is whether I can now install Tiger? The OWC site (who sell > PowerLogix) clearly say compatible with OS 10.4 but the Apple site clearly > says that OS X is not compatible with processor upgrades! > Before I lay out the UKP89 (that's about $180!) for the retail version of > Tiger, I wanted some reassurance from somebody that it would really work? > > I have access to an OEM version of Tiger sold with a G5 that I was hoping to > use to test the system, but it won't load on the G4. > > Perry > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Jun 17 10:10:17 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 17 10:10:28 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: G4 Mirrored Drive Doors question In-Reply-To: <20070616222613.31B19ED761D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070616222613.31B19ED761D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 at 10:39:22 -1000, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: >G4 Mirrored Drive Doors Powermac [pre 2003]... >if I put [restore] CD number 1 into the DVD drive, >my MDD will not "see" the CD in the drive. Two reason drives don't recognize disks are that (1) the disk material is incompatible with the target drive and (2) the machines doing the writing is out of wack. Are you quite sure the "original" disk is original? From alpoulin at cox.net Sun Jun 17 10:11:22 2007 From: alpoulin at cox.net (Al Poulin) Date: Sun Jun 17 10:12:04 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Classic or Native (was: Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD?) In-Reply-To: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: I am not a technician, but a somewhat knowledgeable Mac user and retired computer specialist. I'd like to try to clarify the terms "Classic" and "native." "Legacy" is a generic word for systems that have survived a number of years. On Jun 17, 2007, at 9:57 AM, g4-request@listserver.themacintoshguy.com wrote: > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:37:02 -0700 > From: Ronald Steinke > Subject: Re: [G4] Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD? > To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." > > On 16 Jun, 2007, at 3:55 PM, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: >> >> Since you are a technician, what is the difference in meaning >> between Native >> OS 9 and Classic OS 9? > I'm not a paper certified tech, just a knowledgeable Mac user who > does volunteer refurbishing of donated equipment to put into school > classrooms. My interpretation of the difference is that Apple has > used the title "Classic" to denote all computers, operating systems, > and software that is pre-OS-X This goes beyond Apple's meaning for "Classic." One can speak of Classic applications and running in Classic Mode. "Classic" does not apply to hardware or to OS-9 itself. Also, many things, such as many applications written for System 6 and System 7, and some for OS 8, that are pre-OS-X are also pre-Classic. I would use the more generic "legacy" for these older applications and also for older hardware and older operating systems. > and that "Native" applies to machines > that are capable of booting to OS-9. "Native" has a wider meaning and applies to any machine capable of booting an operating system designed to run on that machine. This is my own view and may be too limiting in specifying "operating system." Note that the following definition allows an even wider meaning by using the terms "instruction set," "something," and "corresponding item." Here is a quote from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_mode "The term native mode is used in computing in two related senses. to describe something running on a computer natively or in native mode meaning that it is running without any external support as contrasted to running in emulation. Native operating system, native instruction set, etc., in application to a computer processor means that the corresponding item was implemented specifically for the given model of the computer or microprocessor, as opposed to emulation or compatibility mode." > There probably is a true company > definition of those terms, but I haven't been exposed to it yet. In > OS-X, programs that are OS-9 or earlier need to have the "Classic" > environment running in order for the programs to operate, but it is > not the full version of OS-9 and most of the system processes are > being handled by OS-X resources. This is accurate. You can search at Apple's web site support tab with the terms "Classic" and "Classic Mode" for more information. Briefly, Apple uses "Classic" to distinguish applications that can run under OS-9 from OS X applications. If you run in Classic Mode, OS X is in charge but it uses software in the OS-9 (usually 9.2.2) System Folder to run Classic applications. This is NOT emulation of OS-9 as mistakenly mentioned by some folks. > In the Mac User Group that I am a member of, we use the terms > interchangeably and usually mean a pre-OS-X item when we say it. This is fine when everybody has the same understanding. But OS-9 cannot run natively on some of the machines that can be used in Classic Mode under OS X. This is true of most G4s sold after September 2002 and all G5s. The OS-9 System Folder can be loaded on these machines but it will not boot them. Hope this helps, Al Poulin From r.ramsowr at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 17 12:43:02 2007 From: r.ramsowr at sbcglobal.net (Richard Ramsowr) Date: Sun Jun 17 12:43:09 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: <432131.81976.qm@web81413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Perry I think your going to haver to wait till the release date - like the rest of the great unwashed masses out there... Sorry Also G5 software is not generally compatible with G4 hardware! Have a good day therepguy Houston --- Perry Mitchell wrote: > I've successfully upgraded my DP450 G4 to DP1.2GHz > G4 via a PowerLogix > processor kit. I've also got a later Video card. > It's all working fine on OS > 10.3.9 > > My question is whether I can now install Tiger? The > OWC site (who sell > PowerLogix) clearly say compatible with OS 10.4 but > the Apple site clearly > says that OS X is not compatible with processor > upgrades! > Before I lay out the UKP89 (that's about $180!) for > the retail version of > Tiger, I wanted some reassurance from somebody that > it would really work? > > I have access to an OEM version of Tiger sold with a > G5 that I was hoping to > use to test the system, but it won't load on the G4. > > Perry > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage > Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From macandlinuxuser at gmail.com Sun Jun 17 13:38:58 2007 From: macandlinuxuser at gmail.com (Patrick J. Runcie) Date: Sun Jun 17 13:39:12 2007 Subject: [G4] Tiger and upgrades In-Reply-To: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> References: <01ac01c7b0e7$82041cb0$0300000a@perrywin> Message-ID: <1A6E39F7-15EA-485B-939A-7CADECAF9F9E@gmail.com> It should work. Last year I upgraded my Quicksilver from a 733MHz to a Sonnet 1.4GHz, granted I was already running Tiger. To play it safe, back up your data files, then upgrade the OS. If it does work, try a fresh install of Tiger with the new processor. I don't know about your processor, but with the Sonnet there is a small patch that had to be applied after the OS install so that the OS sees the processor properly, in other words, it'd see the ram & cache but wouldn't report the processor w/o this patch. Patrick J. Runcie macandlinuxuser@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20070617/efe953a0/attachment-0001.html From galilao at lava.net Sun Jun 17 13:46:44 2007 From: galilao at lava.net (Bruce Ryan Nakamura) Date: Sun Jun 17 13:46:57 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: G4 Mirrored Drive Doors question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 at 10:39:22 -1000, Bruce Ryan Nakamura wrote: > >> G4 Mirrored Drive Doors Powermac [pre 2003]... >> if I put [restore] CD number 1 into the DVD drive, >> my MDD will not "see" the CD in the drive. > > Two reason drives don't recognize disks are that (1) the disk > material is incompatible with the target drive and (2) the machines > doing the writing is out of wack. Are you quite sure the "original" > disk is original? > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 Hello, Actually, I have recently been told that the CD's in question are for a Quicksilver instead of a MDD. The CD's in question have 9.2.2 and 10.1.3. I have been told that the MDD shipped with 9.2.2 and 10.2 on up discs and that the Quicksilver discs won't be recognized. Thanks for the info, Bruce Ryan Nakamura From ronsteinke at mac.com Mon Jun 18 01:51:15 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Mon Jun 18 01:56:20 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Classic or Native (was: Who needed help loading OS 9 on his MDD?) In-Reply-To: References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> On 17 Jun, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Al Poulin wrote: > Hope this helps, > Al Poulin Your explanation of the terms is much appreciated. The information I read from the Apple site is often laden with terms that can have more than one meaning and Apple does not normally tell which definition is the correct one. Sometimes, I wish the english language was not so convoluted. Thanks, again. From keith_w at dslextreme.com Mon Jun 18 03:14:57 2007 From: keith_w at dslextreme.com (keith_w) Date: Mon Jun 18 03:14:59 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Classic or Native In-Reply-To: <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> Message-ID: <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> Ronald Steinke wrote: > On 17 Jun, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Al Poulin wrote: > >> Hope this helps, >> Al Poulin > > Your explanation of the terms is much appreciated. The information I > read from the Apple site is often laden with terms that can have more > than one meaning and Apple does not normally tell which definition is > the correct one. Sometimes, I wish the english language was not so > convoluted. > > Thanks, again. Ronald, It's amazing so few errors actually creep into communication, even when used by native speakers. English is a rich language but it's structure is complex , and you have to work carefully to not be mis-understood! Words change meanings over the years, and as you point out, sometimes have more than one meaning, making it even more difficult to communicate well. I think it helps when the two parties (reader and writer) stay polite, and help each other with understanding text with ambiguous meanings...it makes for a far more pleasant experience! It also helps when the writer is aware of this difficulty, and makes his or her writings as free of double meaning as possible. Writing clearly is not a simple task, sad to say... Best, keith whaley From ewood at izoom.net Mon Jun 18 13:54:43 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Mon Jun 18 13:55:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Our language seems to be shaped by a lack of education, actually. I see so many errors online, and now they're present in almost everything I read. Typically, they are confusion of things like your and you're, and then there's the lesser-known confusion between it's and its. But these are just two tiny examples of grammar skills disappearing, and everyone getting confused by everyone else making such mistakes. Suddenly, there are too few examples of proper English. It's a nightmare to me. The language was far less convoluted before it was transformed from its old Germanic roots to what it is now. I blame the Normans. How long until "English for Dummies" becomes a textbook, I wonder? Anyone seen the film "Idiocracy?" Eric On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 03:14 -0700, keith_w wrote: > Ronald Steinke wrote: > > On 17 Jun, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Al Poulin wrote: > > > >> Hope this helps, > >> Al Poulin > > > > Your explanation of the terms is much appreciated. The information I > > read from the Apple site is often laden with terms that can have more > > than one meaning and Apple does not normally tell which definition is > > the correct one. Sometimes, I wish the english language was not so > > convoluted. > > > > Thanks, again. > > Ronald, It's amazing so few errors actually creep into communication, > even when used by native speakers. > English is a rich language but it's structure is complex , and you have > to work carefully to not be mis-understood! > Words change meanings over the years, and as you point out, sometimes > have more than one meaning, making it even more difficult to communicate > well. > I think it helps when the two parties (reader and writer) stay polite, > and help each other with understanding text with ambiguous meanings...it > makes for a far more pleasant experience! > > It also helps when the writer is aware of this difficulty, and makes his > or her writings as free of double meaning as possible. > Writing clearly is not a simple task, sad to say... > > Best, > > keith whaley > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From brettcaven at gmail.com Mon Jun 18 16:20:19 2007 From: brettcaven at gmail.com (Brett Caven) Date: Mon Jun 18 16:20:29 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <13A0C77D-4F84-4749-84F8-99B5DF427F4B@gmail.com> Eric, I concur over the deteriorating state of the English language. I at least have a reason, for several hours of my day I do everything in French. I really hate the misuse of "There, Their, and They're". --- -Brett On 18/Jun/07, at 5:54 PM, Eric Wood wrote: > Our language seems to be shaped by a lack of education, actually. I > see > so many errors online, and now they're present in almost everything I > read. Typically, they are confusion of things like your and you're, > and > then there's the lesser-known confusion between it's and its. But > these > are just two tiny examples of grammar skills disappearing, and > everyone > getting confused by everyone else making such mistakes. Suddenly, > there > are too few examples of proper English. It's a nightmare to me. > > The language was far less convoluted before it was transformed from > its > old Germanic roots to what it is now. I blame the Normans. > > How long until "English for Dummies" becomes a textbook, I wonder? > Anyone seen the film "Idiocracy?" > > Eric > > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 03:14 -0700, keith_w wrote: >> Ronald Steinke wrote: >>> On 17 Jun, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Al Poulin wrote: >>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Al Poulin >>> >>> Your explanation of the terms is much appreciated. The information I >>> read from the Apple site is often laden with terms that can have >>> more >>> than one meaning and Apple does not normally tell which >>> definition is >>> the correct one. Sometimes, I wish the english language was not so >>> convoluted. >>> >>> Thanks, again. >> >> Ronald, It's amazing so few errors actually creep into communication, >> even when used by native speakers. >> English is a rich language but it's structure is complex , and you >> have >> to work carefully to not be mis-understood! >> Words change meanings over the years, and as you point out, sometimes >> have more than one meaning, making it even more difficult to >> communicate >> well. >> I think it helps when the two parties (reader and writer) stay >> polite, >> and help each other with understanding text with ambiguous >> meanings...it >> makes for a far more pleasant experience! >> >> It also helps when the writer is aware of this difficulty, and >> makes his >> or her writings as free of double meaning as possible. >> Writing clearly is not a simple task, sad to say... >> >> Best, >> >> keith whaley >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >> >> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >> stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 >> > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From earle.jones at comcast.net Mon Jun 18 17:08:34 2007 From: earle.jones at comcast.net (Earle Jones) Date: Mon Jun 18 17:08:46 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Jun 18, 2007, at 1:54 PM, Eric Wood wrote: > Our language seems to be shaped by a lack of education, actually. I > see > so many errors online, and now they're present in almost everything I > read. Typically, they are confusion of things like your and you're, > and > then there's the lesser-known confusion between it's and its. But > these > are just two tiny examples of grammar skills disappearing, and > everyone > getting confused by everyone else making such mistakes. Suddenly, > there > are too few examples of proper English. It's a nightmare to me. * Amen! (As I used to say before I was saved.) Just by coincidence, the message following your message began (in response to a question about the new Safari browser): its a *beta* wait until the next rev. dont lose sleep. mine crashed constantly. i just axed it. why worry? How many violations would one ticket here? I worked for some years in Asia -- Tokyo and Seoul. During those years, I was the only native English speaker in the office. I spent so much time translating bad English into good English that I came to look upon bad English as a language of its own. I would tell our Japanese staff to translate documents into bad English -- don't worry about commas, etc. -- just get the meaning right. Then I would translate their bad English into good English. An engineering professor friend in Finland once told me that the universal technical language was 'Bad English' -- everyone speaks it -- especially Americans! Cheers, earle * PS: Do you ever read the NewsGroup alt.usage.english? Some good stuff there. From earle.jones at comcast.net Mon Jun 18 17:12:15 2007 From: earle.jones at comcast.net (Earle Jones) Date: Mon Jun 18 17:12:25 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <13A0C77D-4F84-4749-84F8-99B5DF427F4B@gmail.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <13A0C77D-4F84-4749-84F8-99B5DF427F4B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <36D35084-E417-4913-BE12-779EC7DE4B83@comcast.net> Earle Jones =F0 earle.jones@comcast.net On Jun 18, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Brett Caven wrote: > Eric, > I concur over the deteriorating state of the English language. I at =20= > least have a reason, for several hours of my day I do everything in =20= > French. I really hate the misuse of "There, Their, and They're". > --- > -Brett * Its a very common err their using. Don't loose any sleep. elrae * From ewood at izoom.net Mon Jun 18 21:41:20 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Mon Jun 18 21:41:28 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182228080.14045.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 17:08 -0700, Earle Jones wrote: > On Jun 18, 2007, at 1:54 PM, Eric Wood wrote: > > > Our language seems to be shaped by a lack of education, actually. I > > see > > so many errors online, and now they're present in almost everything I > > read. Typically, they are confusion of things like your and you're, > > and > > then there's the lesser-known confusion between it's and its. But > > these > > are just two tiny examples of grammar skills disappearing, and > > everyone > > getting confused by everyone else making such mistakes. Suddenly, > > there > > are too few examples of proper English. It's a nightmare to me. > > * > Amen! (As I used to say before I was saved.) > > Just by coincidence, the message following your message began (in > response to a question about the new Safari browser): > > its a *beta* wait until the next rev. dont lose sleep. > mine crashed constantly. i just axed it. why worry? > > How many violations would one ticket here? > > I worked for some years in Asia -- Tokyo and Seoul. During those > years, I was the only native English speaker in the office. I spent > so much time translating bad English into good English that I came to > look upon bad English as a language of its own. I would tell our > Japanese staff to translate documents into bad English -- don't worry > about commas, etc. -- just get the meaning right. Then I would > translate their bad English into good English. > > An engineering professor friend in Finland once told me that the > universal technical language was 'Bad English' -- everyone speaks it > -- especially Americans! > > Cheers, > > earle > * > PS: Do you ever read the NewsGroup alt.usage.english? Some good > stuff there. > > > > > > > From ronsteinke at mac.com Tue Jun 19 03:00:54 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Tue Jun 19 03:06:00 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Classic or Native In-Reply-To: <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <56FDD596-1285-4AE3-B9B0-EA004C290F1C@mac.com> On 18 Jun, 2007, at 3:14 AM, keith_w wrote: > Writing clearly is not a simple task, sad to say... Alas, much of my writing experience has been at the direction and oversight of departmental heads. For that, I can write a dry, factual, and concise record of events within my sight and hearing. It is when I experience the writings of others who have not made basic definitions readily available to the reader that I sometimes have to interpret their statements with the knowledge of my experiences. Working for the State of California does not always give a person the proper tools to understand clearly terms that have not included their own individual explanation. Thus, when Apple makes a certain statement, I have to interpret it within my knowledge/experience database and try to research some of the terms by consulting with peers or advisors who are willing to share their knowledge. I do not always get pertinent and factual definitions from others and do depend on the added education provided by this bulletin board and others that I follow. When I am in the position of instructing a Macintosh novice, I always ask whether or not he/she has clearly understood the lesson and ask him/her to give me their own explanation of what has been learned so far. I found that this sort of dialogue helps them as much as me to be sure that they understand the procedures and mechanisms being taught. If all sounds good, then I proceed to the next phase of instruction. Courtesy costs nothing and reaps many benefits. From ronsteinke at mac.com Tue Jun 19 03:15:38 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Tue Jun 19 03:20:50 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <08968708-D076-4090-B980-B9C4704F65B8@mac.com> On 18 Jun, 2007, at 1:54 PM, Eric Wood wrote: > The language was far less convoluted before it was transformed from > its > old Germanic roots to what it is now. I blame the Normans. You shouldn't place blame on the Normans for the problems in English. They all spoke French. At least, they did back then. All they did was invade the darned place because of some poorly recorded agreement between family branches. It was a terrifically confusing case of "He said - I said" that never went to court. From ronsteinke at mac.com Tue Jun 19 03:18:54 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Tue Jun 19 03:23:59 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: English In-Reply-To: <13A0C77D-4F84-4749-84F8-99B5DF427F4B@gmail.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <1182200083.5715.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <13A0C77D-4F84-4749-84F8-99B5DF427F4B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 18 Jun, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Brett Caven wrote: > I really hate the misuse of "There, Their, and They're". I can see that you have not been exposed to one of the teachers here in CUSD. He sent me an email and gave me a fourth spelling - "their're" - that definitely did not match context with the rest of the sentence. I just ignored the error and gave my sympathy in absentia to his class. From keith_w at dslextreme.com Tue Jun 19 03:33:27 2007 From: keith_w at dslextreme.com (keith_w) Date: Tue Jun 19 03:33:31 2007 Subject: [G4] Proper English and good writing [WAS: Re: Classic or Native] In-Reply-To: <56FDD596-1285-4AE3-B9B0-EA004C290F1C@mac.com> References: <20070617135750.0F49DEDF508@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <9A436030-9FF8-4A97-8F15-9B0478A62464@mac.com> <46765B21.8020703@dslextreme.com> <56FDD596-1285-4AE3-B9B0-EA004C290F1C@mac.com> Message-ID: <4677B0F7.9060907@dslextreme.com> Interesting comments, Ronald. I got interested in English and writing clearly in college, and that was whetted by working in engineering departments here and there, doing a stint in technical writing...all of which has made me more and more of a pain in the butt when I read other's writings! As the years go on, either people are getting more and more sloppy in all aspects of their writing, or...I've crossed the line and become way too critical in my reading. I am continually asking (under my breath) what do you MEAN? Define your terms, etc. Mumble, mumble... The use of correct grammar has deteriorated drastically, seems to me. Correct spelling is almost non-existent. Complete sentences are no longer important. Ah well, I didn't mean for this to become a rant, but... things aren't getting better, are they. Thanks for a good message on the subject. keith whaley Ronald Steinke wrote: > On 18 Jun, 2007, at 3:14 AM, keith_w wrote: > >> Writing clearly is not a simple task, sad to say... > Alas, much of my writing experience has been at the direction and > oversight of departmental heads. For that, I can write a dry, factual, > and concise record of events within my sight and hearing. > > It is when I experience the writings of others who have not made basic > definitions readily available to the reader that I sometimes have to > interpret their statements with the knowledge of my experiences. Working > for the State of California does not always give a person the proper > tools to understand clearly terms that have not included their own > individual explanation. > > Thus, when Apple makes a certain statement, I have to interpret it > within my knowledge/experience database and try to research some of the > terms by consulting with peers or advisors