From dictator at rebargraphics.com Tue Oct 2 04:58:33 2007 From: dictator at rebargraphics.com (jim carbone) Date: Tue Oct 2 04:58:42 2007 Subject: [G4] Best for server Message-ID: <67215C97-47C5-4CC0-B903-82C6943CBDCE@rebargraphics.com> Hi everyone, I have a small, two employee office that consists of several Macs: a PowerPC G5, a G4 Dual MDD, a G4 QS, and even a triple-boot monstrosity that began life as a B/W G3, got upgraded to a 1GHz G4, and boots OSX, OS9, and Ubuntu. I also have a couple PCs and a printer RIP station. I also have a remote employee that I'd like to be able to connect to the network with her Mac. Right now, the "network" is a mix of routers, switches, hubs, both wired and wireless on cable internet. It's a pain to search other computers on the network for images and slow to transfer between them all. I believe the best thing to do is to dedicate one Mac to being a server, though I admittedly don't know much about servers. I've heard something to the effect that my G4 Dual MDD is basically an Apple server in a tower layout, and I like that it has four HD bays. If the server thing is true, it sounds like that would be the ideal choice, but I'd like to keep the two fastest machines as the workstations for speed and graphics processing power if possible. I currently have Tiger Server en route. So my question is, will the G4 QS 800MHz with 1.5GB RAM be a useable server? If so, how will it compare to if I used the MDD as the server? (Using the G5 is not an option...) Again, I know very little about servers, but I keen to learn as I go. Any information or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, --jim From briang113 at pacbell.net Tue Oct 2 07:49:28 2007 From: briang113 at pacbell.net (B G) Date: Tue Oct 2 07:49:47 2007 Subject: [G4] Best for server In-Reply-To: <67215C97-47C5-4CC0-B903-82C6943CBDCE@rebargraphics.com> References: <67215C97-47C5-4CC0-B903-82C6943CBDCE@rebargraphics.com> Message-ID: <75FBB896-E7E8-4585-808C-1748501C506F@pacbell.net> Well any Mac can be made into a server all you need is OS X server software. It sounds like you really need a Network Storage Device, there are a few option open to you. An actual NAS volume (Maxtor 300GB Shared Storage External Hard Drive NAS ( H01R300 ) ) Just one example there are lots out there some allow for remote access. The other option is to get one of the new airport base stations they have usb and ethernet ports to allow for multiple wired and unwired computers, drives and printers to be attached, you can also set up remote access. BG On Oct 2, 2007, at 4:58 AM, jim carbone wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have a small, two employee office that consists of several Macs: > a PowerPC G5, a G4 Dual MDD, a G4 QS, and even a triple-boot > monstrosity that began life as a B/W G3, got upgraded to a 1GHz G4, > and boots OSX, OS9, and Ubuntu. I also have a couple PCs and a > printer RIP station. I also have a remote employee that I'd like to > be able to connect to the network with her Mac. > > Right now, the "network" is a mix of routers, switches, hubs, both > wired and wireless on cable internet. It's a pain to search other > computers on the network for images and slow to transfer between > them all. I believe the best thing to do is to dedicate one Mac to > being a server, though I admittedly don't know much about servers. > > I've heard something to the effect that my G4 Dual MDD is basically > an Apple server in a tower layout, and I like that it has four HD > bays. If the server thing is true, it sounds like that would be the > ideal choice, but I'd like to keep the two fastest machines as the > workstations for speed and graphics processing power if possible. I > currently have Tiger Server en route. > > So my question is, will the G4 QS 800MHz with 1.5GB RAM be a > useable server? If so, how will it compare to if I used the MDD as > the server? (Using the G5 is not an option...) > > Again, I know very little about servers, but I keen to learn as I > go. Any information or suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > --jim > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From g4 at salemoregon.com Tue Oct 2 12:25:35 2007 From: g4 at salemoregon.com (jonny) Date: Tue Oct 2 12:26:01 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 Message-ID: Hello List. I have a 1.25 GHz dual MDD (FW 400) with original install disks. After numerous attempts, I am unable to boot directly to OS 9.2.2 on the "B" HD. What happens is I get the disk ? icon, and get trapped, unable to boot -or- reselect the startup disk to get back to "A" HD with OSX 3.9. I found a workaround to get back to "A" HD with 3.9, but it's a very messy process. My original disks are: Power Mac G4 Mac OS X - Install Discs 1 & 2 Mac OS version 10.2.1 Power Mac G4 Software Restore - Discs 1-4 Mac OS Version 9.2.2 I have 2 Hard Drives. HD "A": Boots OSX 3.9 and 9.2 for Classic. My primary work drive. HD "B": Boots OSX 2.1 (just reinstalled as part of the workaround). My goal is to boot to OS 9.2.2 on HD "B" so I can run some legacy software without using OSX 3.9 Classic mode. I am able to reformat and begin anew on HD "B", whatever is necessary. Can anyone with an MDD machine booting to OS 9 offer assistance please? I'm stuck. Thanks. Jonny /// From davidkline1 at fastermac.net Tue Oct 2 13:14:25 2007 From: davidkline1 at fastermac.net (David Kline) Date: Tue Oct 2 13:13:01 2007 Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 size limitations Message-ID: <4702A6A1.8030307@fastermac.net> Hi: I have a 200 gb HD that was on PC when the power supply got fried. Is there way to test it's functionality. Also I know there is size limit on HD's on a Graphite G4 is there a way around this. When I try to format it the task bar gets so far then stops. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks DKline From jimash at optonline.net Tue Oct 2 13:17:23 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Tue Oct 2 13:17:34 2007 Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 size limitations In-Reply-To: <4702A6A1.8030307@fastermac.net> References: <4702A6A1.8030307@fastermac.net> Message-ID: <420790F1-6586-47AD-8720-FB1825BCAE0F@optonline.net> On Oct 2, 2007, at 4:14 PM, David Kline wrote: > Hi: I have a 200 gb HD that was on PC when the power supply got > fried. Is there way to test it's functionality. Also I know there > is size limit on HD's on a Graphite G4 is there a way around this. > When I try to format it the task bar gets so far then stops. Any > advice would be appreciated. Thanks DKline > For purposes of your test, use the partitioning tool to make two partitions. If it finishes this format I would still test it further. From macandlinuxuser at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:47:41 2007 From: macandlinuxuser at gmail.com (Patrick J. Runcie) Date: Tue Oct 2 13:48:03 2007 Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 size limitations In-Reply-To: <4702A6A1.8030307@fastermac.net> References: <4702A6A1.8030307@fastermac.net> Message-ID: <000001c80535$7a5a6850$6f0f38f0$@com> The only way around the limitation is to purchase a 3rd party i/o card and install the drive on it. You should be able to boot from it. I have a similar setup on a 2001 Quicksilver, a 250gb SATA drive using a SATA i/o card. I also still use the original IDE ports with (2) 120gb 7200rpm WD drives in RAID 0, for backup. Pat -----Original Message----- From: g4-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com [mailto:g4-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] On Behalf Of David Kline Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:14 PM To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 size limitations Hi: I have a 200 gb HD that was on PC when the power supply got fried. Is there way to test it's functionality. Also I know there is size limit on HD's on a Graphite G4 is there a way around this. When I try to format it the task bar gets so far then stops. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks DKline _______________________________________________ G4 mailing list G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From dilloman at armadillo-press.com Tue Oct 2 13:56:31 2007 From: dilloman at armadillo-press.com (J. R. Rosen) Date: Tue Oct 2 13:57:21 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jonny, is the 2nd hard drive over 128gb? OS 9 can't boot a hdd over 128gb - I learned this the hard way. On Oct 2, 2007, at 2:25 PM, jonny wrote: > Hello List. > I have a 1.25 GHz dual MDD (FW 400) with original install disks. > After numerous attempts, I am unable to boot directly to OS 9.2.2 > on the "B" HD. > What happens is I get the disk ? icon, and get trapped, unable to > boot -or- reselect the startup disk to get back to "A" HD with OSX > 3.9. I found a workaround to get back to "A" HD with 3.9, but it's > a very messy process. > My original disks are: > Power Mac G4 > Mac OS X - Install Discs 1 & 2 > Mac OS version 10.2.1 > Power Mac G4 > Software Restore - Discs 1-4 > Mac OS Version 9.2.2 > I have 2 Hard Drives. > HD "A": Boots OSX 3.9 and 9.2 for Classic. My primary work drive. > HD "B": Boots OSX 2.1 (just reinstalled as part of the workaround). > My goal is to boot to OS 9.2.2 on HD "B" so I can run some legacy > software without using OSX 3.9 Classic mode. > I am able to reformat and begin anew on HD "B", whatever is necessary. > Can anyone with an MDD machine booting to OS 9 offer assistance > please? > I'm stuck. Thanks. > Jonny J. R. Rosen Armadillo Press-Printing & Graphics 305 Wells Fargo Dr., Suite 4 Houston, TX 77090 281-586-9383 (phone) 281-586-9876 (fax) 281-467-5366 (cell) jrosen82@sbcglobal.net dilloman@armadillo-press.com www.armadillo-press.com From g4 at salemoregon.com Tue Oct 2 14:06:23 2007 From: g4 at salemoregon.com (jonny) Date: Tue Oct 2 14:06:43 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Jonny, is the 2nd hard drive over 128gb? OS 9 can't boot a hdd over >128gb - I learned this the hard way. Yes! 300 GB. Will partitioning the "B" HD solve the problem? What is the optimum partition size for OS 9.2.2 to reside? How to best reinstall? Thank you! Jonny > >On Oct 2, 2007, at 2:25 PM, jonny wrote: > >>Hello List. >>I have a 1.25 GHz dual MDD (FW 400) with original install disks. >>After numerous attempts, I am unable to boot directly to OS 9.2.2 >>on the "B" HD. >>What happens is I get the disk ? icon, and get trapped, unable to >>boot -or- reselect the startup disk to get back to "A" HD with OSX >>3.9. I found a workaround to get back to "A" HD with 3.9, but it's >>a very messy process. >>My original disks are: >>Power Mac G4 >>Mac OS X - Install Discs 1 & 2 >>Mac OS version 10.2.1 >>Power Mac G4 >>Software Restore - Discs 1-4 >>Mac OS Version 9.2.2 >>I have 2 Hard Drives. >>HD "A": Boots OSX 3.9 and 9.2 for Classic. My primary work drive. >>HD "B": Boots OSX 2.1 (just reinstalled as part of the workaround). >>My goal is to boot to OS 9.2.2 on HD "B" so I can run some legacy >>software without using OSX 3.9 Classic mode. >>I am able to reformat and begin anew on HD "B", whatever is necessary. >>Can anyone with an MDD machine booting to OS 9 offer assistance please? >>I'm stuck. Thanks. >>Jonny > >J. R. Rosen >Armadillo Press-Printing & Graphics >305 Wells Fargo Dr., Suite 4 >Houston, TX 77090 >281-586-9383 (phone) >281-586-9876 (fax) >281-467-5366 (cell) >jrosen82@sbcglobal.net >dilloman@armadillo-press.com >www.armadillo-press.com > > >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From senseamp at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 14:38:22 2007 From: senseamp at yahoo.com (John Niven) Date: Tue Oct 2 14:38:28 2007 Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 size limitations In-Reply-To: <000001c80535$7a5a6850$6f0f38f0$@com> Message-ID: <915471.51903.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> It's not the only way. I have 160Gb disk in my G4 Gigabit. Disk Utility only saw 128Gb - so that's what I used. I have not had any problems with it. These days Gb are so cheap I don't fret about the 32Gb I'm missing. I'd rather have a brand new drive I can rely on, than old small one. So I believe you should be able to "see" at least 128Gb of the drive before you format it. I was unable to see any way to "partition the drive into two". I think I only paid $60 for 128Gb (plus 32Gb wasted :-) BTW raid0 is a stripe across two drives. That means that if one drive fails you lose all your backup. I'm not sure that's the best choice for a backup! John --- "Patrick J. Runcie" wrote: > The only way around the limitation is to purchase a > 3rd party i/o card and > install the drive on it. You should be able to boot > from it. I have a > similar setup on a 2001 Quicksilver, a 250gb SATA > drive using a SATA i/o > card. I also still use the original IDE ports with > (2) 120gb 7200rpm WD > drives in RAID 0, for backup. > > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: g4-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > [mailto:g4-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] > On Behalf Of David Kline > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:14 PM > To: g4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > Subject: [G4] RE: Testing HD functionality and G4 > size limitations > > Hi: I have a 200 gb HD that was on PC when the power > supply got fried. > Is there way to test it's functionality. Also I > know there is size > limit on HD's on a Graphite G4 is there a way around > this. When I try to > format it the task bar gets so far then stops. Any > advice would be > appreciated. Thanks DKline > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz From ewood at izoom.net Tue Oct 2 19:46:34 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Tue Oct 2 19:46:43 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1191379594.18910.1.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> I for one never like to waste disk space. I recommend you have OS X make two or more partitions on that drive and of course, make sure it's checked to "Install Mac OS 9 Drivers." Then see if OS 9 will install onto one of those partitions. Not sure what you mean by optimum size - it takes a little over 300 megabytes to install a full system, far as I recall. Beyond that, use however much space you think you'll need. Eric On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 14:06 -0700, jonny wrote: > >Jonny, is the 2nd hard drive over 128gb? OS 9 can't boot a hdd over > >128gb - I learned this the hard way. > > Yes! 300 GB. > > Will partitioning the "B" HD solve the problem? > > What is the optimum partition size for OS 9.2.2 to reside? > > How to best reinstall? > > Thank you! > > Jonny > > > > >On Oct 2, 2007, at 2:25 PM, jonny wrote: > > > >>Hello List. > >>I have a 1.25 GHz dual MDD (FW 400) with original install disks. > >>After numerous attempts, I am unable to boot directly to OS 9.2.2 > >>on the "B" HD. > >>What happens is I get the disk ? icon, and get trapped, unable to > >>boot -or- reselect the startup disk to get back to "A" HD with OSX > >>3.9. I found a workaround to get back to "A" HD with 3.9, but it's > >>a very messy process. > >>My original disks are: > >>Power Mac G4 > >>Mac OS X - Install Discs 1 & 2 > >>Mac OS version 10.2.1 > >>Power Mac G4 > >>Software Restore - Discs 1-4 > >>Mac OS Version 9.2.2 > >>I have 2 Hard Drives. > >>HD "A": Boots OSX 3.9 and 9.2 for Classic. My primary work drive. > >>HD "B": Boots OSX 2.1 (just reinstalled as part of the workaround). > >>My goal is to boot to OS 9.2.2 on HD "B" so I can run some legacy > >>software without using OSX 3.9 Classic mode. > >>I am able to reformat and begin anew on HD "B", whatever is necessary. > >>Can anyone with an MDD machine booting to OS 9 offer assistance please? > >>I'm stuck. Thanks. > >>Jonny > > > >J. R. Rosen > >Armadillo Press-Printing & Graphics > >305 Wells Fargo Dr., Suite 4 > >Houston, TX 77090 > >281-586-9383 (phone) > >281-586-9876 (fax) > >281-467-5366 (cell) > >jrosen82@sbcglobal.net > >dilloman@armadillo-press.com > >www.armadillo-press.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >G4 mailing list > >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From kathialexis at cox.net Tue Oct 2 22:47:02 2007 From: kathialexis at cox.net (Kathi Anderson) Date: Tue Oct 2 22:47:19 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive Message-ID: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> I have a G4 MDD coming soon that I bought without ram or hard drives. Can anyone tell me what would be the best drives to put in this MDD? I can find out from Crucial what I should use for ram, but can't seem to find a source to tell me what the best hard drive is to put in a G4 MDD. Thanks, Kathi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071002/cf480915/attachment.html From g4 at salemoregon.com Tue Oct 2 23:21:42 2007 From: g4 at salemoregon.com (jonny) Date: Tue Oct 2 23:21:57 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2- SUCCESS! In-Reply-To: <1191379594.18910.1.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> References: <1191379594.18910.1.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> Message-ID: THANK YOU to J. R. & Eric for pointing the way! FYI, the Process: I reformatted & partitioned Drive "B". One partition for OS 9 set @ 100 GB. (Thanks for the crucial bit of information that it should not exceed 128 GB, J.R.). I installed Panther on it, then booted to it. Then I used the original "Restore" discs that came with the machine (Thanks, Eric) to put OS 9.2 in place (must be booted to the destination drive to install). Restarted to my primary HD "A". System Preferences, Startup Disk...AND, there it was: OS 9 on the "B" HD partition. I selected it, restarted, and it worked like a charm. Rebooted to the correct drive in OS 9.2. I've got preferences, control panels, extensions, applications to configure...but as far as I'm concerned, I'm out of the woods! The rest is just a nice long hike. :-) Thank you gentlemen. And thank you to the LIST for providing the forum. Jonny /// >I for one never like to waste disk space. I recommend you have OS X make >two or more partitions on that drive and of course, make sure it's >checked to "Install Mac OS 9 Drivers." > >Then see if OS 9 will install onto one of those partitions. Not sure >what you mean by optimum size - it takes a little over 300 megabytes to >install a full system, far as I recall. Beyond that, use however much >space you think you'll need. > >Eric > >On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 14:06 -0700, jonny wrote: >> >Jonny, is the 2nd hard drive over 128gb? OS 9 can't boot a hdd over >> >128gb - I learned this the hard way. >> >> Yes! 300 GB. >> >> Will partitioning the "B" HD solve the problem? >> >> What is the optimum partition size for OS 9.2.2 to reside? >> >> How to best reinstall? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Jonny >> >> > >> >On Oct 2, 2007, at 2:25 PM, jonny wrote: >> > >> >>Hello List. >> >>I have a 1.25 GHz dual MDD (FW 400) with original install disks. >> >>After numerous attempts, I am unable to boot directly to OS 9.2.2 >> >>on the "B" HD. >> >>What happens is I get the disk ? icon, and get trapped, unable to >> >>boot -or- reselect the startup disk to get back to "A" HD with OSX >> >>3.9. I found a workaround to get back to "A" HD with 3.9, but it's >> >>a very messy process. >> >>My original disks are: >> >>Power Mac G4 >> >>Mac OS X - Install Discs 1 & 2 >> >>Mac OS version 10.2.1 >> >>Power Mac G4 >> >>Software Restore - Discs 1-4 >> >>Mac OS Version 9.2.2 >> >>I have 2 Hard Drives. >> >>HD "A": Boots OSX 3.9 and 9.2 for Classic. My primary work drive. >> >>HD "B": Boots OSX 2.1 (just reinstalled as part of the workaround). >> >>My goal is to boot to OS 9.2.2 on HD "B" so I can run some legacy >> >>software without using OSX 3.9 Classic mode. >> >>I am able to reformat and begin anew on HD "B", whatever is necessary. >> >>Can anyone with an MDD machine booting to OS 9 offer assistance please? >> >>I'm stuck. Thanks. >> >>Jonny >> > >> >J. R. Rosen >> >Armadillo Press-Printing & Graphics >> >305 Wells Fargo Dr., Suite 4 >> >Houston, TX 77090 >> >281-586-9383 (phone) >> >281-586-9876 (fax) >> >281-467-5366 (cell) >> >jrosen82@sbcglobal.net >> >dilloman@armadillo-press.com >> >www.armadillo-press.com >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >G4 mailing list >> >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 >> > >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From ben.smith at ntlworld.com Wed Oct 3 01:01:00 2007 From: ben.smith at ntlworld.com (Ben Smith) Date: Wed Oct 3 01:42:05 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <20071003062206.DB03E17B4FD1@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071003062206.DB03E17B4FD1@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <47034C3C.30502@ntlworld.com> > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:47:02 -0700 > From: "Kathi Anderson" > Subject: [G4] New hard drive > To: > Message-ID: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have a G4 MDD coming soon that I bought without ram or hard drives. Can > anyone tell me what would be the best drives to put in this MDD? > > I can find out from Crucial what I should use for ram, but can't seem to > find a source to tell me what the best hard drive is to put in a G4 MDD. > > Thanks, > > Kathi > Any standard IDE (PATA) drive will work fine in this, (not SATA!). You are lucky in your choice of machine as this not only has a faster IDE bus than the earlier G4's but it also does not have the 128GB limit, so you can install any size HDD you like (300-500GB are very cheap at the moment). Please be aware that if you want to run 9.2.2 there are a few things to watch out for, 1) if it is the second model MDD with FireWire 800 it cannot run 9.x. 2) you cannot use retail 9.2.2 install disks as they are missing some MDD specific files, you must use the MDD restore disks that were originally supplied with the machine. 3) as pointed out in another thread 9.2.2 cannot boot from a partition greater than 128GB. As memory is cheap I would suggest maxing it out to 2GB, the MDD will run 10.4.x very well (even better if you upgrade the graphics card). If it is 1GHZ or faster then it should also run 10.5, my MDD (867 O/C to 1.07GHZ, 2GB Ram, Radeon 9800 graphics) runs the current beta of 10.5 fine. Ben. From vharlow at ford.com Wed Oct 3 06:22:15 2007 From: vharlow at ford.com (Harlow, Virginia (V.L.)) Date: Wed Oct 3 06:22:32 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 Message-ID: I had a similar problem and posted here a while back, but didn't get a response. In my circumstance, someone I found on this list guided me thru setting up a second hard drive on my G4 400Mhz. We put the OSx3.9 on the new hard drive that formatted to 128GB. I did a fresh load of OS 9 on the older 10GB. I was able to toggle between the two operating systems at start up with no problem. Then, one day, at start up when I selected the drive with OS9, the computer hangs-up and never boots from that disc. If I restart and select the drive with OSX, no problem. I'm sure many people need to boot both operating system. Maybe someone knows of a website that trouble shoots these types of issues. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks! Virginia Harlow vharlow@ford.com | Business Phone: 313.39.02936 | Cell: 586.945.8606 | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071003/48a43741/attachment.html From FromJay at joimail.com Wed Oct 3 10:31:31 2007 From: FromJay at joimail.com (JayB) Date: Wed Oct 3 10:31:26 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey gang- I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. No Joy. I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has run smooth for 5 yrs. Until now, things were fine. Clues? From harry at gifutiger.com Wed Oct 3 10:45:48 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Wed Oct 3 10:45:57 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) When I get into problems like yours I reinstall from DVD's then run all up-dates prior to installing or running any application other than Apple. Then everything usually works just fine. I know it requires a lot of effort and time, but when you need things to work correctly you have to do, what you have to do. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:31 AM, JayB wrote: > Hey gang- > > I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump > from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded and > installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. > > Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU > won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop > color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. > > I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. > > No Joy. > > I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has run > smooth for 5 yrs. > > Until now, things were fine. > > Clues? > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From g4 at salemoregon.com Wed Oct 3 17:54:40 2007 From: g4 at salemoregon.com (jonny) Date: Wed Oct 3 10:55:02 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> References: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> Message-ID: I recently installed on my MDD, and am pleased with (reading from box) "Seagate 300 GB Ultra ATA/100, 16MB Cache, 2.5-inch Drive, PC or Mac. 7200-RPM drive with most advanced Fluid Bearing Motor. Five-Year Warranty." Ebay. New in unopened package. Less than $100 delivered. RAM. I also purchased recently & am pleased with: "512MB PC2700 DDR 333MHz CL2.5 184 Pin Module for all Power Mac G4 Dual 867MHz - 1.42GHz 'MDD" and "FW800" models" From: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/2700DDR512/ Jonny /// >I have a G4 MDD coming soon that I bought without ram or hard >drives. Can anyone tell me what would be the best drives to put in >this MDD? >I can find out from Crucial what I should use for ram, but can't >seem to find a source to tell me what the best hard drive is to put >in a G4 MDD. >Thanks, >Kathi > >_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Wed Oct 3 10:57:41 2007 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Wed Oct 3 10:57:48 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> References: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> Message-ID: <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> Re-install the latest upgrade OVER the existing one. You might need to download it from Apple. Paul Moortgat On 03 Oct 2007, at 19:45, Harry Freeman wrote: > Greetings ( + )!( + ) > > When I get into problems like yours I reinstall from DVD's then run > all up-dates prior to installing or running any application other > than Apple. > > Then everything usually works just fine. > > I know it requires a lot of effort and time, but when you need > things to work correctly you have to do, what you have to do. > ---------------------------------------------------- > On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:31 AM, JayB wrote: > >> Hey gang- >> >> I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump >> from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded >> and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. >> >> Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU >> won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop >> color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. >> >> I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. >> >> No Joy. >> >> I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has >> run smooth for 5 yrs. >> >> Until now, things were fine. >> >> Clues? From FromJay at joimail.com Wed Oct 3 11:56:22 2007 From: FromJay at joimail.com (JayB) Date: Wed Oct 3 11:56:16 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> References: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> Message-ID: Maybe I'm missing something? I've been running Panther .3.9. I installed Tiger from DVD, then updated via the 10.4.10 download from Apple. What part of that is unusual? If you are suggesting the first thing I should do is start from scratch - format, install clean and re-install all my software and configurations..... geez, no thanks. I was hoping for a bit less drastic (and maybe less than 12 hrs of work re-installing and configuring all the apps). I mean, sure, - that last resort is ALWAYS available- and if all you are using the machine for is fun and games- no big. I'll stand by and see if there might be any less drastic countermeasures suggested. ~Jay On Oct 3, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Paul Moortgat wrote: > Re-install the latest upgrade OVER the existing one. You might > need to download it from Apple. > > Paul Moortgat > > On 03 Oct 2007, at 19:45, Harry Freeman wrote: > >> Greetings ( + )!( + ) >> >> When I get into problems like yours I reinstall from DVD's then >> run all up-dates prior to installing or running any application >> other than Apple. >> >> Then everything usually works just fine. >> >> I know it requires a lot of effort and time, but when you need >> things to work correctly you have to do, what you have to do. >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:31 AM, JayB wrote: >> >>> Hey gang- >>> >>> I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to >>> jump from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and >>> downloaded and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. >>> >>> Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU >>> won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to >>> desktop color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other >>> clues. >>> >>> I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. >>> >>> No Joy. >>> >>> I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has >>> run smooth for 5 yrs. >>> >>> Until now, things were fine. >>> >>> Clues? > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From jimash at optonline.net Wed Oct 3 12:12:59 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Wed Oct 3 12:13:18 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: References: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> Message-ID: On Oct 3, 2007, at 2:56 PM, JayB wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something? > I've been running Panther .3.9. I installed Tiger from DVD, then > updated via the 10.4.10 download from Apple. What part of that is > unusual? > > If you are suggesting the first thing I should do is start from > scratch - format, install clean and re-install all my software and > configurations..... geez, no thanks. I was hoping for a bit less > drastic (and maybe less than 12 hrs of work re-installing and > configuring all the apps). I mean, sure, - that last resort is > ALWAYS available- and if all you are using the machine for is fun > and games- no big. > > I'll stand by and see if there might be any less drastic > countermeasures suggested. > > ~Jay > You could try running a maintenance program ( permissions, prebindings, cache clean etc) and zapping the pram again. Or open it up and press the PMU switch. ( Since it is a power issue). > > On Oct 3, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Paul Moortgat wrote: > >> Re-install the latest upgrade OVER the existing one. You might >> need to download it from Apple. >> >> Paul Moortgat >> >> On 03 Oct 2007, at 19:45, Harry Freeman wrote: >> >>> Greetings ( + )!( + ) >>> >>> When I get into problems like yours I reinstall from DVD's then >>> run all up-dates prior to installing or running any application >>> other than Apple. >>> >>> Then everything usually works just fine. >>> >>> I know it requires a lot of effort and time, but when you need >>> things to work correctly you have to do, what you have to do. >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:31 AM, JayB wrote: >>> >>>> Hey gang- >>>> >>>> I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to >>>> jump from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and >>>> downloaded and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. >>>> >>>> Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the >>>> CPU won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to >>>> desktop color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other >>>> clues. >>>> >>>> I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. >>>> >>>> No Joy. >>>> >>>> I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has >>>> run smooth for 5 yrs. >>>> >>>> Until now, things were fine. >>>> >>>> Clues? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From harry at gifutiger.com Wed Oct 3 12:17:29 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Wed Oct 3 12:17:39 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: References: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> Message-ID: <2f6c6cc4e4ad35a79522a277c90e8a36@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) All that I'm saying is: If your having a problem and you can not get it resolved, then reinstall from scratch, otherwise live with your problem. The procedure that I use is reinstall from DVD and install all upgrades (from internet) prior to using (because when use use an application for the first time it will install some preference and other items that the application needs) any application from any source other than Apple. If this procedure doesn't suite your fancy then do it which ever way you like. I just know what works for me. Usually fixes the problem and doesn't take as long as posting on the user group and waiting for suggestion that may or may not work, or perhaps suggestions that cause more problems. Best regards, p.s. I know that there will be a lot of others that disagree with my suggestions and their welcome to post their own thoughts, however how long do you want to fix your problem! On Oct 3, 2007, at 11:56 AM, JayB wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something? > I've been running Panther .3.9. I installed Tiger from DVD, then > updated via the 10.4.10 download from Apple. What part of that is > unusual? > > If you are suggesting the first thing I should do is start from > scratch - format, install clean and re-install all my software and > configurations..... geez, no thanks. I was hoping for a bit less > drastic (and maybe less than 12 hrs of work re-installing and > configuring all the apps). I mean, sure, - that last resort is ALWAYS > available- and if all you are using the machine for is fun and games- > no big. > > I'll stand by and see if there might be any less drastic > countermeasures suggested. > > ~Jay > > > On Oct 3, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Paul Moortgat wrote: > >> Re-install the latest upgrade OVER the existing one. You might need >> to download it from Apple. >> >> Paul Moortgat >> >> On 03 Oct 2007, at 19:45, Harry Freeman wrote: >> >>> Greetings ( + )!( + ) >>> >>> When I get into problems like yours I reinstall from DVD's then run >>> all up-dates prior to installing or running any application other >>> than Apple. >>> >>> Then everything usually works just fine. >>> >>> I know it requires a lot of effort and time, but when you need >>> things to work correctly you have to do, what you have to do. >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:31 AM, JayB wrote: >>> >>>> Hey gang- >>>> >>>> I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump >>>> from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded >>>> and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. >>>> >>>> Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU >>>> won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop >>>> color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. >>>> >>>> I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. >>>> >>>> No Joy. >>>> >>>> I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has run >>>> smooth for 5 yrs. >>>> >>>> Until now, things were fine. >>>> >>>> Clues? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From mos125 at comcast.net Wed Oct 3 12:20:00 2007 From: mos125 at comcast.net (Thomas Brooks) Date: Wed Oct 3 12:20:08 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> References: <00a801c80580$d2b94890$6601a8c0@GX280> Message-ID: Look here for ram . I have bought 3 512mb chips from 3 different vendors. I checked their feedback, return and DOA policies and double checked shipping charges. I am now running 1-Crucial 256mb with the 3-512mb chips. I have 2-256mb chips that I pulled from my G4 AGP Graphics machine when I added the 512mb chips. E-mail outside the list if you want more information. If anyone else is interested let me know. I am also running an 80Gb and 160Gb (Recognized as 128Gb) in the machine and a 250Gb in a firewire external enclosure (recognized as 250Gb). All are Seagate HD's. I have never had the first trouble with any of them. 80Gb is about 6 years old, 160Gb about 3 years old and 250 Gb less than a year old. I paid around $50.00 each for them on sale. TB On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:47 AM, Kathi Anderson wrote: > I have a G4 MDD coming soon that I bought without ram or hard drives. > Can anyone tell me what would be the best drives to put in this MDD? > I can find out from Crucial what I should use for ram, but can?t seem > to find a source to tell me what the best hard drive is to put in a G4 > MDD. > Thanks, > Kathi > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1823 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071003/91fa6de3/attachment.bin From jimash at optonline.net Wed Oct 3 12:24:49 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Wed Oct 3 12:24:59 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: <2f6c6cc4e4ad35a79522a277c90e8a36@gifutiger.com> References: <87b574609822dd5d73cad597bd9b0cd6@gifutiger.com> <545D6DDE-29AE-454D-B364-3373F2B17B63@pandora.be> <2f6c6cc4e4ad35a79522a277c90e8a36@gifutiger.com> Message-ID: <9A24C85C-F5B6-41B4-AB8C-741DACEA892F@optonline.net> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Harry Freeman wrote: > The procedure that I use is reinstall from DVD and install all > upgrades (from internet) prior to using (because when use use an > application for the first time it will install some preference and > other items that the application needs) any application from any > source other than Apple. > Yes of course. Completely unnecessary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071003/a20bc356/attachment.html From adamss99 at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 3 14:00:50 2007 From: adamss99 at bellsouth.net (Steve Adams) Date: Wed Oct 3 14:00:56 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <685D447F-8015-4E44-BD4D-5416E169A9E2@bellsouth.net> First thing I would do is look at Activity Monitor after shutting down and see which program is not responding. Try doing a Forced Quit on that program from the Activity Monitor. Usually this resolves my problem forever. Next I would check and repair permissions. After all that, if there are still problems, try reinstalling the last upgrade. The upgrade should go faster since it sees it has already been installed and only tries to install missing or corrupt files. No need to reinstall any applications, the upgrades won't effect them. Steve Adams On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:31 PM, JayB wrote: > Hey gang- > > I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump > from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded > and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. > > Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU > won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop > color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. > > I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. > > No Joy. > > I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has run > smooth for 5 yrs. > > Until now, things were fine. > > Clues? > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From FromJay at joimail.com Wed Oct 3 17:22:40 2007 From: FromJay at joimail.com (JayB) Date: Wed Oct 3 17:22:34 2007 Subject: [G4] Upgraded to 10.4.10 and now it won't shut down In-Reply-To: <685D447F-8015-4E44-BD4D-5416E169A9E2@bellsouth.net> References: <685D447F-8015-4E44-BD4D-5416E169A9E2@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Sound advice Steve. Although the Activity Monitor didn't seem to tell me anything (and it shuts down the moment I hit the Shutdown command). Of course I had already done permissions and the whole Disk Warrior v4 on it without any luck. So I did an 'archive and install' of 10.4 and the problem appeared to be cured. I then downloaded the combo update of 10.4- 10.4.8 (instead of reinstalling 10.4.10) and everything appears to be back to normal (although I was prompted by Photoshop to a partial reinstall for a couple of missing files). I don't think I'll run the 10.4.10 on this machine. I've gotten great service from it but I'll have to surrender to the Intel Mac soon as much of the new pro-photo software is geared for it and runs slow even on my relatively new G4 1.67ghz powerbook. Thanks to all who pitched in with suggestions. It really would be an 8-10 hr project to start from scratch. I run my whole studio on this computer. Best, ~Jay On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Steve Adams wrote: > First thing I would do is look at Activity Monitor after shutting > down and see which program is not responding. Try doing a Forced > Quit on that program from the Activity Monitor. Usually this > resolves my problem forever. > > Next I would check and repair permissions. > > After all that, if there are still problems, try reinstalling the > last upgrade. The upgrade should go faster since it sees it has > already been installed and only tries to install missing or corrupt > files. > > No need to reinstall any applications, the upgrades won't effect them. > > Steve Adams > > > > > > > On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:31 PM, JayB wrote: > >> Hey gang- >> >> I needed to install my upgrade to CS3 (photoshop) so I had to jump >> from Tiger 10.4.1 at least 10.4.6. I went ahead and downloaded >> and installed the upgrade to 10.4.10. >> >> Although CS3 runs (slowly), and everything else seems OK, the CPU >> won't do a proper SHUTDOWN. It empties the screen down to desktop >> color only and hangs. No wheel (curser fine), no other clues. >> >> I've since zapped the PRAM, and run Disk Warrior 4. >> >> No Joy. >> >> I've got a 500 AGP boosted to 1gig (and a gig of RAM) that has >> run smooth for 5 yrs. >> >> Until now, things were fine. >> >> Clues? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From chrisgins at verizon.net Wed Oct 3 17:58:38 2007 From: chrisgins at verizon.net (The Sargents) Date: Wed Oct 3 18:00:30 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling Finder In-Reply-To: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Hi, I've got a 933 Mhz Quicksilver G4 with 768 mb of Ram running 10.4.8. The other day the wife was dragging many many many files to the trash when the machine instead started copying them to the desk top. She tried unsuccessfully to abort the operation but could not stop it. She had to force quit the finder . Upon restart there are no icons on the desktop, not even hard drives, and the finder is amazingly slow to react. I repaired permissions after booting from the OS X install disk, no change. Ran Disk Warrior, no change. Started up in Single user mode, ran fsck and then removed the finder.plist and sidebar.plist per The X Lab web site. Still slow and painful to work with (reminds me of my Performa 6200) :-( Tried Drive Genius- slightly faster, still no desktop. My Konfabulator widgets see my hard drives and all my menu items are there (S.M.A.R.T. status, WeatherPop, JumpCut, Konfabulator, etc) Applications run, albeit slowly. Any help would be appreciated! -- Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's such a fine line between stupid and.....clever." David St. Hubbins & Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ewood at izoom.net Wed Oct 3 20:33:55 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Wed Oct 3 20:34:04 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling Finder In-Reply-To: References: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <1191468835.26053.2.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> Wow, I have a Performa 6214 myself, so I know what you're talking about! First thought is, if some system files got messed up, let that be a lesson never to give the wife superuser privileges. My first serious suggestion is to try with a different user account. This way you can isolate whether it's a problem with user prefs or the system proper. If the problem runs deeper than the user account, you might be looking at reinstallation. I can't imagine that whatever is wrong could be very easily corrected otherwise. Eric On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 20:58 -0400, The Sargents wrote: > Hi, > I've got a 933 Mhz Quicksilver G4 with 768 mb of Ram running > 10.4.8. The other day the wife was dragging many many many files to > the trash when the machine instead started copying them to the desk > top. She tried unsuccessfully to abort the operation but could not > stop it. She had to force quit the finder . Upon restart there are no > icons on the desktop, not even hard drives, and the finder is > amazingly slow to react. I repaired permissions after booting from > the OS X install disk, no change. Ran Disk Warrior, no change. > Started up in Single user mode, ran fsck and then removed the > finder.plist and sidebar.plist per The X Lab web site. Still slow and > painful to work with (reminds me of my Performa 6200) :-( Tried Drive > Genius- slightly faster, still no desktop. My Konfabulator widgets > see my hard drives and all my menu items are there (S.M.A.R.T. > status, WeatherPop, JumpCut, Konfabulator, etc) Applications run, > albeit slowly. > Any help would be appreciated! From kathialexis at cox.net Wed Oct 3 20:36:50 2007 From: kathialexis at cox.net (Kathi Anderson) Date: Wed Oct 3 20:37:07 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <47034C3C.30502@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <00a201c80637$cc862350$6601a8c0@GX280> SNIP Any standard IDE (PATA) drive will work fine in this, (not SATA!). You are lucky in your choice of machine as this not only has a faster IDE bus than the earlier G4's but it also does not have the 128GB limit, so you can install any size HDD you like (300-500GB are very cheap at the moment). Please be aware that if you want to run 9.2.2 there are a few things to watch out for, 1) if it is the second model MDD with FireWire 800 it cannot run 9.x. 2) you cannot use retail 9.2.2 install disks as they are missing some MDD specific files, you must use the MDD restore disks that were originally supplied with the machine. 3) as pointed out in another thread 9.2.2 cannot boot from a partition greater than 128GB. As memory is cheap I would suggest maxing it out to 2GB, the MDD will run 10.4.x very well (even better if you upgrade the graphics card). If it is 1GHZ or faster then it should also run 10.5, my MDD (867 O/C to 1.07GHZ, 2GB Ram, Radeon 9800 graphics) runs the current beta of 10.5 fine. Ben. SNIP Thanks for the sage advice. I don't think I will put OS9 on it. I have a Digital Audio that has OS9 on it...also two G3s with OS9. That's enough. But I would like to put two drives in it. It is a single 1.25 MHz processor. The seller said there were no trays for the hard drives. I am not sure how I will get those...maybe buy another junker. Kathi From ronsteinke at mac.com Thu Oct 4 01:29:49 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Thu Oct 4 01:28:30 2007 Subject: [G4] Booting MDD G4 to OS 9.2.2 from OSX 3.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A900583-2DDA-4D64-8B48-D9C78600632B@mac.com> On 3 Oct, 2007, at 6:22, Harlow, Virginia (V.L.) wrote: > I was able to toggle between the two operating systems at start up > with no problem. Then, one day, at start up when I selected the > drive with OS9, the computer hangs-up and never boots from that > disc. If I restart and select the drive with OSX, no problem. It sounds as though you had done everything correctly, so there is no reason not to do it again. I would venture a guess that something happened to the OS-9 drive to cause this problem. Either the OS software became corrupt and became unable to complete a startup or the drive itself developed a mechanical problem. The easiest way to determine which condition caused the problem is to attempt to do a "Clean Install" of OS-9 on the drive. You should use the same installation CD that you used before and start the installation as normal except that you should check each of the option buttons to find the "Clean Install" function. Once you find that option, select it and then continue with the installation procedure as you did previously. This will give you a valid operating system on the drive that you can boot to. You should be able to locate your original System Folder with the new name of "Previous System Folder" in the contents of the hard drive. Once you have verified that the new system is working properly, you can delete the Previous System Folder safely. Of course, you will have to consider reinstalling any third party software that you had in the old system onto the new one. If the installation CD does not find the drive you want to do the "Clean Install" onto, then you probably have a dead drive and will need to replace it and do all your installations over again onto a new drive. At least, you will have learned how to do a minor trouble-shoot procedure. At most, you will have a new drive to play with. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071004/d81e68a5/attachment.html From ronsteinke at mac.com Thu Oct 4 01:43:54 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Thu Oct 4 01:42:30 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling Finder In-Reply-To: <1191468835.26053.2.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> References: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <1191468835.26053.2.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> Message-ID: <63E67C5B-7694-4443-ABA3-53A143481BFD@mac.com> On 3 Oct, 2007, at 20:33, Eric Wood wrote: > My first serious suggestion is to try with a different user account. > This way you can isolate whether it's a problem with user prefs or the > system proper. If the problem runs deeper than the user account, you > might be looking at reinstallation. I can't imagine that whatever is > wrong could be very easily corrected otherwise. I agree with Eric on this situation. It appears that your wife dragged more than she intended to and has created a super problem. Perhaps some needed system software parts got selected during the "drag and drop". Using a different user account is an easy way to determine whether you have a "local" problem or a "total" problem. If there is no other user account to boot into, you will probably have to do a clean install from your original disks to get back your desktop functions. Just do an "Archive and Install" option during the installation and do not allow it to import any settings from the old system. That will help avoid any corruption that may be lurking in the old System. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071004/33ebaddb/attachment.html From ronsteinke at mac.com Thu Oct 4 01:52:00 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Thu Oct 4 01:50:37 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <00a201c80637$cc862350$6601a8c0@GX280> References: <00a201c80637$cc862350$6601a8c0@GX280> Message-ID: <8FB7074C-78C5-4383-A423-FFABB1F14E82@mac.com> On 3 Oct, 2007, at 20:36, Kathi Anderson wrote: > The seller said there were no trays for the hard drives. I am not > sure how I > will get those...maybe buy another junker. Have you verified that this IS true? The additional single drive mounting sleds are not always apparent to the novice user since they look just like the inside bottom of the chassis they are mounted on. Also, one type of sled is a tandem sled and will mount a second drive right above the first one. That gives you at least one additional drive mounting location if this type of sled in inside the chassis. If true, Apple Stores can order you as many mounting sleds as you need. You just have to be willing to pay their price. Or, you can do a search for the sleds on eBay or Craig's List. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071004/8a3281e9/attachment.html From briang113 at pacbell.net Thu Oct 4 10:25:35 2007 From: briang113 at pacbell.net (B G) Date: Thu Oct 4 10:25:43 2007 Subject: [G4] Panther 10.3 Full Version In-Reply-To: <59C76875-DD62-4829-80C8-F3F32FD2C27F@MARKHEATH.NET> References: <59C76875-DD62-4829-80C8-F3F32FD2C27F@MARKHEATH.NET> Message-ID: <6B9B6C00-4FBA-4798-84A5-CFBE49B3F105@pacbell.net> If anyone is interested I have a full retail version of Panther 10.3 In the box It looks like I never used it or maybe used it once. I found it buried under a pile of stuff in my office. I am think $30 plus shipping is a fair price. Contact me off list if you are interested. Brian From harry at gifutiger.com Thu Oct 4 10:40:03 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Thu Oct 4 10:40:11 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling Finder In-Reply-To: References: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <3d6dafa52f9c17ccc6dfe2318418bc49@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) Sargents there is a flag that can get set that tells the OS not to display anything on the desktop. I don't know where the flag is located in the core operating system but, if you have "TinkerTool" there is a check-box under the Finder-tab that says "Use the Desktop" which needs to be checked, other wise almost nothing shows up on the desktop. There are other utilities that provide the same option, so if you don't have "TinkerTool" but some one of the various system utilities, like 1. Cocktail, 2. MacJanitor, 3. OnyX, 4. MOX Optmize, then check them out and see if they have the "Hide the Desktop" feature. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 3, 2007, at 5:58 PM, The Sargents wrote: > Hi, > I've got a 933 Mhz Quicksilver G4 with 768 mb of Ram running 10.4.8. > The other day the wife was dragging many many many files to the trash > when the machine instead started copying them to the desk top. She > tried unsuccessfully to abort the operation but could not stop it. > She had to force quit the finder . Upon restart there are no icons on > the desktop, not even hard drives, and the finder is amazingly slow to > react. I repaired permissions after booting from the OS X install > disk, no change. Ran Disk Warrior, no change. Started up in Single > user mode, ran fsck and then removed the finder.plist and > sidebar.plist per The X Lab web site. Still slow and painful to work > with (reminds me of my Performa 6200) :-( Tried Drive Genius- slightly > faster, still no desktop. My Konfabulator widgets see my hard drives > and all my menu items are there (S.M.A.R.T. status, WeatherPop, > JumpCut, Konfabulator, etc) Applications run, albeit slowly. > Any help would be appreciated! > -- > > Chris > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "It's such a fine line between stupid and.....clever." > David St. Hubbins & Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From ewood at izoom.net Thu Oct 4 15:23:30 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Thu Oct 4 15:23:35 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling Finder In-Reply-To: <3d6dafa52f9c17ccc6dfe2318418bc49@gifutiger.com> References: <20071003062206.8B15D17B4FCA@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <3d6dafa52f9c17ccc6dfe2318418bc49@gifutiger.com> Message-ID: <1191536610.739.0.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> This is an interesting bit of info, but what about the Finder being so slow? Surely that setting has nothing to do with that? Eric On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 10:40 -0700, Harry Freeman wrote: > Greetings ( + )!( + ) > > Sargents there is a flag that can get set that tells the OS not to > display anything on the desktop. I don't know where the flag is located > in the core operating system but, if you have "TinkerTool" there is a > check-box under the Finder-tab that says "Use the Desktop" which needs > to be checked, other wise almost nothing shows up on the desktop. > > There are other utilities that provide the same option, so if you don't > have "TinkerTool" but some one of the various system utilities, like 1. > Cocktail, 2. MacJanitor, 3. OnyX, 4. MOX Optmize, then check them out > and see if they have the "Hide the Desktop" feature. > ---------------------------------------------------- > > On Oct 3, 2007, at 5:58 PM, The Sargents wrote: > > > Hi, > > I've got a 933 Mhz Quicksilver G4 with 768 mb of Ram running 10.4.8. > > The other day the wife was dragging many many many files to the trash > > when the machine instead started copying them to the desk top. She > > tried unsuccessfully to abort the operation but could not stop it. > > She had to force quit the finder . Upon restart there are no icons on > > the desktop, not even hard drives, and the finder is amazingly slow to > > react. I repaired permissions after booting from the OS X install > > disk, no change. Ran Disk Warrior, no change. Started up in Single > > user mode, ran fsck and then removed the finder.plist and > > sidebar.plist per The X Lab web site. Still slow and painful to work > > with (reminds me of my Performa 6200) :-( Tried Drive Genius- slightly > > faster, still no desktop. My Konfabulator widgets see my hard drives > > and all my menu items are there (S.M.A.R.T. status, WeatherPop, > > JumpCut, Konfabulator, etc) Applications run, albeit slowly. > > Any help would be appreciated! > > -- > > > > Chris > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > "It's such a fine line between stupid and.....clever." > > David St. Hubbins & Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > > G4 mailing list > > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From kathialexis at cox.net Thu Oct 4 22:28:26 2007 From: kathialexis at cox.net (Kathi Anderson) Date: Thu Oct 4 22:28:31 2007 Subject: [G4] New hard drive In-Reply-To: <8FB7074C-78C5-4383-A423-FFABB1F14E82@mac.com> Message-ID: <008c01c80710$8e616d80$6601a8c0@GX280> SNIP The seller said there were no trays for the hard drives. I am not sure how I will get those...maybe buy another junker. Have you verified that this IS true? The additional single drive mounting sleds are not always apparent to the novice user since they look just like the inside bottom of the chassis they are mounted on. Also, one type of sled is a tandem sled and will mount a second drive right above the first one. That gives you at least one additional drive mounting location if this type of sled in inside the chassis. If true, Apple Stores can order you as many mounting sleds as you need. You just have to be willing to pay their price. Or, you can do a search for the sleds on eBay or Craig's List. Thanks. I am waiting to receive it to check. You are correct about mistaking them for missing. I ordered a Digital Audio without hard drives a year ago and the brackets are rather inconspicuous. Kathi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071004/ebd67ee7/attachment-0001.html From chux at aapt.net.au Thu Oct 4 22:59:49 2007 From: chux at aapt.net.au (Charles Williams) Date: Thu Oct 4 23:01:09 2007 Subject: [G4] SATA/eSATA PCI controller In-Reply-To: <20071005052842.177D517F8937@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071005052842.177D517F8937@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Hi Chaps, I would like to install two 500GB SATA drives in a RAID1 set-up using OSX's software RAID. I understand that OSX's software RAID1 solution is somewhat slower than a hardware card, but the difference in speed between a SATA RAID1 software implementation and a single (P)ATA drive on the native bus should still fall in favour of the SATA drives, right? I have a few questions. Can I boot from the SATA drive/ PCI controller? Can I get a SATA PCI card that will support 2 internal SATA drives and 1 eSATA drive? What should I get? Regards, Charles -- "The question is", said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -that's all." From wolfiebear at coldreams.com Fri Oct 5 00:05:40 2007 From: wolfiebear at coldreams.com (Inga Renault) Date: Fri Oct 5 00:11:59 2007 Subject: [G4] WInd Tunnel Getting Louder Message-ID: My MDD 866 WInd Tunnel started getting louder a couple of months ago. It seems to be holding now, but really, it is quite loud.....have to turn the TV on pretty loud to be able to hear it well. Is it just a matter of replacing or oiling the fan, or does it mean something further than that? When I first got the machine, the processor was fried, and then it sounded even louder than this...new processoer quieted it doen. I don't even now if the two are related at this point or not. (Did that make sense?) Thanks, Inga From wolfiebear at coldreams.com Fri Oct 5 00:11:59 2007 From: wolfiebear at coldreams.com (Inga Renault) Date: Fri Oct 5 00:12:23 2007 Subject: [G4] WInd Tunnel Getting Louder Message-ID: My MDD 866 WInd Tunnel started getting louder a couple of months ago. It seems to be holding now, but really, it is quite loud.....have to turn the TV on pretty loud to be able to hear it well. Is it just a matter of replacing or oiling the fan, or does it mean something further than that? When I first got the machine, the processor was fried, and then it sounded even louder than this...new processoer quieted it doen. I don't even now if the two are related at this point or not. (Did that make sense?) Thanks, Inga From keith_w at dslextreme.com Fri Oct 5 05:02:29 2007 From: keith_w at dslextreme.com (keith_w) Date: Fri Oct 5 05:02:35 2007 Subject: [G4] SATA/eSATA PCI controller In-Reply-To: References: <20071005052842.177D517F8937@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <470627D5.3020808@dslextreme.com> Charles Williams wrote: > Hi Chaps, > > I would like to install two 500GB SATA drives in a RAID1 set-up using > OSX's software RAID. I understand that OSX's software RAID1 solution is > somewhat slower than a hardware card, but the difference in speed > between a SATA RAID1 software implementation and a single (P)ATA drive > on the native bus should still fall in favour of the SATA drives, right? > > I have a few questions. > > Can I boot from the SATA drive/ PCI controller? > > Can I get a SATA PCI card that will support 2 internal SATA drives and 1 > eSATA drive? > > What should I get? > > > Regards, > > Charles I can answer only one of those questions, Charles... I have a 2002 MDD G4 with 2 internal 80 Ghz drives, one for ordinary use, one for internal backup. Works beautifully for that, as none of my work is storage greedy. However, I'm now in the process of modifying this one for use with iMovie and FinalCut Pro, and was advised to get a 250 or greater HD for all that work, because it's so greedy for storage space. I got a 300 GB eSATA drive by Seagate, and immediately called OWC (Other World Computing) for help! They sent me a FirmTek SeriTek/1VE2+2 4-port ATA Controller (PCI) card, that apparently does just that. I have not yet installed it, but it's said it's for the Macintosh, and was recommended to me by OWC. ? Has two internal and two external "high-speed" SATA ports. ? Serial ATA 1.0a compliant. ? Includes Mac OSX RAID support. ? Supports drives larger than 137 GB. For the company, see: http://www.firmtek.com/ For the product, see: http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/ Again, I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this info, nor how well the product complies with it's advertising. I'm reading off the box it came in, and will not be installing it for a few days yet. I hope this info is useful to you; sounds to be just what you need! One caveat: They DO warn that "early Hitachi SATA hard drives are incompatible with this host adapter." The problem is a seldom-used "feature" called SSC, which is enabled on those drives. I have the list of acceptable Hitachi drives, in the 7Kxxx series, so let me know whether you have a Hitachi drive. They say that other HDs from Maxtor, Seagate and Western Digital do NOT have this feature, and are compatible. Good luck! To both of us! ;-) keith whaley From richspk at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 06:27:45 2007 From: richspk at gmail.com (Richard Klein) Date: Fri Oct 5 06:27:51 2007 Subject: [G4] WInd Tunnel Getting Louder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69ce86c30710050627r2b6adc89n88b99d9ec2e623c3@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Inga Renault wrote: > My MDD 866 WInd Tunnel started getting louder a couple of months ago. > It seems to be holding now, but really, it is quite loud.....have to > turn the TV on pretty loud to be able to hear it well. > > Is it just a matter of replacing or oiling the fan, or does it mean > something further than that? When I first got the machine, the > processor was fried, and then it sounded even louder than this...new > processoer quieted it doen. I don't even now if the two are related > at this point or not. (Did that make sense?) Get your ear close to the case (or use a stethoscope) and figure out what part of the case the noise is coming from. If it's coming from the power supply, you'll probably need to replace the power supply. I haven't opened up a Mac power supply, but replacing the fan in one probably requires soldering. Other fans can be replaced more easily. I don't have any experience with the MDDs, but I imagine their construction is similar to other G4s. Computer fans should never be oiled. When they get noisy (or fail completely) you just replace them. I'd go to OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/) or eBay for replacements. -- Rich From chrisgins at verizon.net Fri Oct 5 18:02:56 2007 From: chrisgins at verizon.net (The Sargents) Date: Fri Oct 5 18:15:58 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling finder update In-Reply-To: <20071005052840.DF7ED17F892F@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071005052840.DF7ED17F892F@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the suggestions. An archive and install did nothing to change the situation. After more attempts such as zapping the Pram, booting into safe mode, etc. I tried hooking up my OS 9 drive in a Firewire enclosure and attempted to reboot into OS 9 (Does anybody know how to boot into an external Firewire drive- either OS 9 or OS X?) The Finder was so slow that logging out timed out and I could not boot into OS 9, but I finally got to the log in screen and was able to switch users. It turns out there were 21,896 items on the desktop :-( I archived them (except for the normal day to day items) to another drive so my wife can go through them eventually and then deleted them and emptied the trash. Switched back to my original user name and all is well with my Mac :-) -- Chris ************************************************* "We have a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she's ordered the lobster"- The Shoveler, Mystery Men ************************************************* From keith_w at dslextreme.com Sat Oct 6 13:20:49 2007 From: keith_w at dslextreme.com (keith_w) Date: Sat Oct 6 13:21:11 2007 Subject: [G4] Start up Chime Message-ID: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. I can't seem to make Safe Boot work, nor can I get the Target Disk Mode to come up, so I can transfer my old CPU data to my brand new CPU. All seem to hinge, in one way or another, on getting that start-up chime! Do I need to do a PRAM reset? I think I'll try that anyway, whilst all you folks are considering my question1 ;-) keith whaley From cecilhal at netzero.net Sat Oct 6 13:48:12 2007 From: cecilhal at netzero.net (cecilhal@netzero.net) Date: Sat Oct 6 14:17:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request Message-ID: <20071006.134812.9926.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> Hello Group: I recently purchased a 50 GB Seagate SCSI HARD DRIVE for my PMG4. It has no OS but I have a Mac 10.0 Tiger installation disk or disks. I think they are two. I am new to Mackintosh computers. What are the proceedure to install the Mac operating system on this new drive? Bye the way a SCSI Adapter shipped with the drive. The following information about the drive may help: (HH) 1.6 inch height 3.5" format, 50 PIN for APPLE MACINTOSH. PowerMac G4 (with a 50/68 PIN SCSI card) DRIVE SPECIFICATIONS:Model: SEAGATE Barracuda, 1.5" Height HH, Ultra-2 SCSI Formatted Capacity: 50 GigaByte Rotational speed: 7200 RPM (fast!) Buffer Size: 1024KB/4096KB (Optional) EXTERNAL TRANSFER RATE: 40 Sync mbyte/sec INTERNAL TRANSFER RATE: 120 to 190 mbits/sec Overage seek time: 7.9 ms Latency (average): 417 ms Thanks in advance. Cecil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/230d4a24/attachment.html From earle.jones at comcast.net Sat Oct 6 15:51:42 2007 From: earle.jones at comcast.net (Earle Jones) Date: Sat Oct 6 15:52:10 2007 Subject: [G4] Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> References: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <8CFF4781-8642-49F9-B108-37FB2DEBE720@comcast.net> * Hi! One step better than a PRAM reset is this: Hold down "Command-Option OF" when starting up. This puts the Mac =20 into "open firmware" mode. type: reset-nvram (CR) [nvram =3D non-volatile RAM} reset-all (CR) (CR) =3D carriage return You may have to repeat this twice. This should turn on the startup chime and perhaps fix some other =20 glitches. NOTE: Command-Option PR resets PRAM Command-Option OF resets NVRAM Command-Option S opens in "single-user" mode Good luck! earle * On Oct 6, 2007, at 1:20 PM, keith_w wrote: > I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. > > I can't seem to make Safe Boot work, nor can I get the Target Disk =20 > Mode to come up, so I can transfer my old CPU data to my brand new =20 > CPU. > > All seem to hinge, in one way or another, on getting that start-up =20 > chime! > > Do I need to do a PRAM reset? > > I think I'll try that anyway, whilst all you folks are considering =20 > my question1 ;-) > > keith whaley > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 _______________________ Earle Jones =F0 earle.jones@comcast.net 650-854-1489 From jimroom at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 16:19:39 2007 From: jimroom at gmail.com (Jim S) Date: Sat Oct 6 16:19:44 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! Message-ID: Hello all, I was wondering if anyone would know how to swap out a SCSI hard drive with an IDE. The issue is that the connector and ribbon is different for a SCSI drive than it is for a IDE drive. At the moment there is a SCSI card that the 2 internal Hard drives are connected to. How do I change the ribbon/connectors and where, so that I can install the new IDE drive? Is there any documentation on this? Any how to's? Visual guides? Anything that will help me. I look forward to hearing from you all. I'd like to solve this problem before the hard drives fail. Thank you for your time. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/9c2e99d6/attachment-0001.html From douglist at macnauchtan.com Sat Oct 6 16:38:12 2007 From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt) Date: Sat Oct 6 16:38:23 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 16:19 -0700 10/6/07, Jim S wrote: > I was wondering if anyone would know how to swap out a SCSI hard drive with an IDE. The issue is that the connector and ribbon is different for a SCSI drive than it is for a IDE drive. At the moment there is a SCSI card that the 2 internal Hard drives are connected to. >How do I change the ribbon/connectors and where, so that I can install the new IDE drive? It's probably impossible to make that happen with a wiring change. But I'm a bit confused. My Sawtooth G4 may be different from yours. With that in mind. . . ATA (IDE was an older version that made the processor do the work) and SCSI have very different logic protocols that require different software and probably hardware. ATA is limited to 2 drives on a bus, SCSI supports 7. The Sawtooth requires ATA for its internal busses each of which can support two drives. You can replace the Zip drive with an ATA disk but it's a bit of screwdriver work. You can have two ATA drives on the other bus. SCSI just isn't there but you probably can find a PCI card that supports SCSI drives if you don't have all of the slots used up driving monitors as I do. You can also find SCSI to Firewire boxes that might well be easier than finding a PCI card. ATA drives remain cheaper than SCSI. -- --> The best programming tool is a soldering iron <-- From jimroom at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 16:51:29 2007 From: jimroom at gmail.com (Jim S) Date: Sat Oct 6 16:51:40 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, Here's the scenario. I have an older Sawtooth, it's a 450 with 2 - 18gig Seagate hard drives and they are old and starting to fail. I have a new 80gig ATA/IDE drive that I'd like to install inplace of the SCSi drives but not sure how to go about it. I don't want the SCSI card or drives in my system any longer since I don't fully trust them. I'd feel secure with a new drive. Any ideas how to achieve this? Any documentation that you know of? thanks for your help and thoughts. Jim On 10/6/07, Doug McNutt wrote: > > At 16:19 -0700 10/6/07, Jim S wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone would know how to swap out a SCSI hard drive > with an IDE. The issue is that the connector and ribbon is different for a > SCSI drive than it is for a IDE drive. At the moment there is a SCSI card > that the 2 internal Hard drives are connected to. > >How do I change the ribbon/connectors and where, so that I can install > the new IDE drive? > > It's probably impossible to make that happen with a wiring change. > > But I'm a bit confused. My Sawtooth G4 may be different from yours. With > that in mind. . . > > ATA (IDE was an older version that made the processor do the work) and > SCSI have very different logic protocols that require different software and > probably hardware. ATA is limited to 2 drives on a bus, SCSI supports 7. > > The Sawtooth requires ATA for its internal busses each of which can > support two drives. You can replace the Zip drive with an ATA disk but it's > a bit of screwdriver work. You can have two ATA drives on the other bus. > > SCSI just isn't there but you probably can find a PCI card that supports > SCSI drives if you don't have all of the slots used up driving monitors as I > do. > > You can also find SCSI to Firewire boxes that might well be easier than > finding a PCI card. > > ATA drives remain cheaper than SCSI. > > -- > --> The best programming tool is a soldering iron <-- > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/8a4c5c31/attachment.html From arricam at 295.ca Sat Oct 6 16:54:08 2007 From: arricam at 295.ca (arricam@295.ca) Date: Sat Oct 6 16:54:33 2007 Subject: [G4] Re:Power Mac G4 -HD Questions-R.M. In-Reply-To: <20071006231952.37E2E182E9DC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071006231952.37E2E182E9DC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> Hi: What HD Drives would be ideal for Final Cut Pro? ie: 2x 80Gigs. Any compatability issues, with OS9, or X? The G5's have dual core, quicker processor. But for off line work, I'd hate to scrap the G4! Cheers R.M. From harry at gifutiger.com Sat Oct 6 16:58:48 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sat Oct 6 16:58:59 2007 Subject: [G4] Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <8CFF4781-8642-49F9-B108-37FB2DEBE720@comcast.net> References: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> <8CFF4781-8642-49F9-B108-37FB2DEBE720@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2bb5ea0ee5932ffc60831318b751fdd5@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) Let me add one step: On Oct 6, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Earle Jones wrote: > * > Hi! > > One step better than a PRAM reset is this: > > Hold down "Command-Option OF" when starting up. This puts the Mac > into "open firmware" mode. > > type: reset-nvram (CR) [nvram = non-volatile RAM} set-defaults > reset-all (CR) > > (CR) = carriage return > > You may have to repeat this twice. > > This should turn on the startup chime and perhaps fix some other > glitches. > > > NOTE: Command-Option PR resets PRAM > Command-Option OF resets NVRAM > Command-Option S opens in "single-user" mode > > Good luck! > > earle > * > On Oct 6, 2007, at 1:20 PM, keith_w wrote: > >> I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. >> >> I can't seem to make Safe Boot work, nor can I get the Target Disk >> Mode to come up, so I can transfer my old CPU data to my brand new >> CPU. >> >> All seem to hinge, in one way or another, on getting that start-up >> chime! >> >> Do I need to do a PRAM reset? >> >> I think I'll try that anyway, whilst all you folks are considering my >> question1 ;-) >> >> keith whaley >> _______________________________________________ >> G4 mailing list >> G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > > _______________________ > Earle Jones ð > earle.jones@comcast.net > 650-854-1489 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/c05b1e78/attachment.bin From douglist at macnauchtan.com Sat Oct 6 17:14:55 2007 From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt) Date: Sat Oct 6 17:15:01 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 16:51 -0700 10/6/07, Jim S wrote: >Hi Doug, >Here's the scenario. I have an older Sawtooth, it's a 450 with 2 - 18gig Seagate hard drives and they are old and starting to fail. My Sawtooth is only 375 MHz and it must be older than yours. It has two ATA cables for two devices each operated from the motherboard. >I have a new 80gig ATA/IDE drive that I'd like to install inplace of the SCSi drives but not sure how to go about it. I don't want the SCSI card or drives in my system any longer since I don't fully trust them. >I'd feel secure with a new drive. >Any ideas how to achieve this? Any documentation that you know of? Open it up and look for an unused ATA cable hanging around. One goes up to the CD-ROM and, originally for mine, to a Zip drive. There might be just a 40 pin ATA connector waiting to have a cable plugged into it. A peecee ATA cable would work. I'm guessing now that a previous owner, or perhaps a dealer, added the PCI card to make use of existing SCSI disks. Apple was delivering nothing but ATA drives when it made your G4. The Sawtooth G4's are limited to 128 GB on their ATA drives. -- --> Halloween == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas <-- From jimash at optonline.net Sat Oct 6 17:43:39 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Sat Oct 6 17:43:54 2007 Subject: [G4] Re:Power Mac G4 -HD Questions-R.M. In-Reply-To: <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> References: <20071006231952.37E2E182E9DC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> Message-ID: <61F2D00F-15E7-4C07-A4FA-9CE07BB63F40@optonline.net> My G4 is running X..4.10. Final Cut Studio 5.04 I have three 80 gig drives in it. One's a Samsung, one's a Seagate BArracuda, and one an IBM UltraStar. The IBM is shoved in under the DVD drive (slower bus) They all have similar specs and all work well. I am also usiing a WD on the G5 and like it. I think you can use up to 120 gig drives but the 80's are cheap. I also bought a firwire/USB external box and installed one of my old 40 gig Seagates in there and it is hanging off the G4. No reason to chuck the G4 . My strategy is always to run programs off my boot drive and video off the number two. I put music and photos on the boot drive and assign all my rendering to the second. This breaks up the work so everything can run at full speed. And I can wipe #2 between projects. Jim On Oct 6, 2007, at 7:54 PM, arricam@295.ca wrote: > Hi: > > What HD Drives would be ideal for Final Cut Pro? ie: 2x 80Gigs. > Any compatability issues, with OS9, or X? > > The G5's have dual core, quicker processor. But for > off line work, I'd hate to scrap the G4! > > Cheers > > R.M. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From ffarwell at cox.net Sat Oct 6 17:57:28 2007 From: ffarwell at cox.net (FC Farwell) Date: Sat Oct 6 17:57:37 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: WInd Tunnel Getting Louder In-Reply-To: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <4F9633C6-32D1-42DF-B932-D97938FB1E71@cox.net> On Oct 6, 2007, From: Inga Renault > > > My MDD 866 WInd Tunnel started getting louder a couple of months ago. > It seems to be holding now, but really, it is quite loud.....have to > turn the TV on pretty loud to be able to hear it well. I wonder if enough dust covers components that it does not cool as well. What would happen if you took a air duster can and blew the insides out including the fans. Maybe it would help. F.C. Farwell From richspk at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 19:14:29 2007 From: richspk at gmail.com (Richard Klein) Date: Sat Oct 6 19:14:40 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69ce86c30710061914o47c072ah1c251d381fefa2ef@mail.gmail.com> On 10/6/07, Jim S wrote: > Hello all, > I was wondering if anyone would know how to swap out a SCSI hard drive with > an IDE. The issue is that the connector and ribbon is different for a SCSI > drive than it is for a IDE drive. At the moment there is a SCSI card that > the 2 internal Hard drives are connected to. > How do I change the ribbon/connectors and where, so that I can install the > new IDE drive? > > Is there any documentation on this? Any how to's? Visual guides? Anything > that will help me. Jim, Take a look at this page: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75312 If your Sawtooth doesn't have IDE cables in it already, you should be able to use regular PC IDE cables, available at any computer store. -- Rich From jimroom at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 19:54:45 2007 From: jimroom at gmail.com (Jim S) Date: Sat Oct 6 19:54:55 2007 Subject: [G4] Re:Power Mac G4 -HD Questions-R.M. In-Reply-To: <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> References: <20071006231952.37E2E182E9DC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> Message-ID: I would say to use as big of drives as you can afford and that your machine will handle. I'd say at least 200 or 250gig drives. If your machine will handle a 500gig, go with that. You need a separate drive to run final cut and to hold storage. You shouldn't have your video files on the same drive as the application. Just my 2 cents ;) On 10/6/07, arricam@295.ca wrote: > > Hi: > > What HD Drives would be ideal for Final Cut Pro? ie: 2x 80Gigs. > Any compatability issues, with OS9, or X? > > The G5's have dual core, quicker processor. But for > off line work, I'd hate to scrap the G4! > > Cheers > > R.M. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/4673575d/attachment.html From jimroom at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 20:05:08 2007 From: jimroom at gmail.com (Jim S) Date: Sat Oct 6 20:05:19 2007 Subject: [G4] Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth-HELP! In-Reply-To: <69ce86c30710061914o47c072ah1c251d381fefa2ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <69ce86c30710061914o47c072ah1c251d381fefa2ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Rich, that helps out :) That definitely sheds some light on the problem. thanks from California. Where are you? Jim On 10/6/07, Richard Klein wrote: > > On 10/6/07, Jim S wrote: > > Hello all, > > I was wondering if anyone would know how to swap out a SCSI hard drive > with > > an IDE. The issue is that the connector and ribbon is different for a > SCSI > > drive than it is for a IDE drive. At the moment there is a SCSI card > that > > the 2 internal Hard drives are connected to. > > How do I change the ribbon/connectors and where, so that I can install > the > > new IDE drive? > > > > Is there any documentation on this? Any how to's? Visual guides? > Anything > > that will help me. > > Jim, > Take a look at this page: > http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75312 > > If your Sawtooth doesn't have IDE cables in it already, you should be > able to use regular PC IDE cables, available at any computer store. > > -- > Rich > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/840a63b4/attachment.html From chux at aapt.net.au Sat Oct 6 22:35:17 2007 From: chux at aapt.net.au (Charles Williams) Date: Sat Oct 6 22:35:36 2007 Subject: [G4] A Question about power connectors on QS2002 In-Reply-To: <20071007021450.50878183276E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007021450.50878183276E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Hello again, I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many HD power connectors there are meant to be in a QS2002? The power connectors are numbered from 1-7 on my computer (e.g. P3 goes to the lower HD in slot 3, and P7 goes to the DVD). This means that there is space for 4 HDs, but only power connectors for 3? Is this correct? Now, there's the issue of the useless zip drive bay. Presumably the power connector for the ZIP drive (P6) could be used (with an extension lead) to power another HD in one of the four lower positions? I had thought about installing a 2nd optical drive in the lower bay, but the amount of metal work involved seems to make it not worth the trouble. When I first saw a QS I assumed that there was room for 2 optical drives (I don't suppose I was alone in this, and Apple wasn't inclined to fill everyone's wish list in one go - a bit like old-school GM) I note that there is mention that the zip drive is on a slower bus, presumably this includes the DVDRW drive as well? Is it worth running the DVDRW drive off the faster bus? Right now, I just grabbed the original CDRW, set it SLave and hooked it to the spare HD connector plugged in P7 and away it goes. So, I imagine that when I get round to running 2 internal SATA drives I can then take the IDE ribbon connector from the LS bus of the mother board and plug it into the bus at the bottom. This will mean that the DVD and whatever else I shoe-horn into the lower bay (probably a HD) will be running off the faster bus (and presumably happier with it). Regards, Charles -- "The question is", said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -that's all." From ewood at izoom.net Sat Oct 6 22:52:39 2007 From: ewood at izoom.net (Eric Wood) Date: Sat Oct 6 22:52:48 2007 Subject: [G4] Re:Power Mac G4 -HD Questions-R.M. In-Reply-To: <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> References: <20071006231952.37E2E182E9DC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <49157.208.72.123.84.1191714848.squirrel@mail.295.ca> Message-ID: <1191736359.9549.3.camel@208-38-111-235.static.izoom.net> Hi R.M. Since you're doing video work, might as well get a SATA card and put a nice, fast SATA drive or two in there. The one I have is compatible with OS 9 and OS X. OWC sells such goodies, so I'd encourage you to have a look there. Otherwise, you could always just get a couple of 120 Gig IDE drives or even the 80s as you mentioned. There should be absolutely no compatibility problems for any of these suggestions. Eric On Sat, 2007-10-06 at 19:54 -0400, arricam@295.ca wrote: > Hi: > > What HD Drives would be ideal for Final Cut Pro? ie: 2x 80Gigs. > Any compatability issues, with OS9, or X? > > The G5's have dual core, quicker processor. But for > off line work, I'd hate to scrap the G4! > > Cheers > > R.M. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From baltwo at san.rr.com Sat Oct 6 23:46:22 2007 From: baltwo at san.rr.com (John Baltutis) Date: Sat Oct 6 23:47:42 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling finder update In-Reply-To: <20071006231952.9892A182E9DE@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071006231952.9892A182E9DE@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On 10/06/07, The Sargents wrote: > > Thanks for the suggestions. An archive and install did > nothing to change the situation. After more attempts such as zapping > the Pram, booting into safe mode, etc. I tried hooking up my OS 9 > drive in a Firewire enclosure and attempted to reboot into OS 9 (Does > anybody know how to boot into an external Firewire drive- either OS 9 > or OS X?) You select the volume/partition hosting the bootable OS with System Preferences->Startup Disk and click restart. Optionally, restart holding down the OPTION key. That brings up the Startup Manager and shows icons for every mounted and bootable volume. Select the volume you want to boot with and click the right-hand arrow. > The Finder was so slow that logging out timed out and I could > not boot into OS 9, but I finally got to the log in screen and was > able to switch users. It turns out there were 21,896 items on the > desktop :-( I archived them (except for the normal day to day items) > to another drive so my wife can go through them eventually and then > deleted them and emptied the trash. Switched back to my original user > name and all is well with my Mac :-) Glad you solved that one. From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Oct 6 23:49:23 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Oct 6 23:47:49 2007 Subject: [G4] Crawling finder update In-Reply-To: References: <20071005052840.DF7ED17F892F@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <350DA24B-AFEC-47E8-BFE1-C96A92C49279@mac.com> On 5 Oct, 07, at 6:02 PM, The Sargents wrote: > Does anybody know how to boot into an external Firewire drive- > either OS 9 or OS X?) In OS-9, I have used the keyboard combination of Command-Option-Shift- Delete all held down during the boot procedure. This forces the machine to boot to any valid system folder that is connected to the computer, CD disk, USB or FireWire (as long as the machine is capable of booting to that particular type of case) external hard drive or CD/DVD case instead of booting to the internal hard drive. In OS-X, I hold down the Option key during the boot procedure. This brings up every valid system folder that is attached and in a compatible case. Then click on the system folder you want to use and press the forward button to finish the boot procedure in that OS. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071006/e9e620fc/attachment.html From ronsteinke at mac.com Sun Oct 7 00:15:49 2007 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sun Oct 7 00:14:16 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request In-Reply-To: <20071006.134812.9926.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> References: <20071006.134812.9926.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <39C37BB7-4464-4050-AFEB-561DA4CC3776@mac.com> On 6 Oct, 07, at 1:48 PM, cecilhal@netzero.net wrote: > What are the proceedure to install the Mac operating system on this > new drive? If indeed you have the Tiger version of OS-X, it needs a DVD drive in the machine in order to read the disc. If you don't have a DVD drive installed, you can use an external DVD drive case. Also, your drive is an ultra-wide SCSI drive that requires a specific adapter PCI card and ribbon to connect it to the motherboard. Without that adapter card and ribbon installed in your G4, it won't work for you. Be sure that you have at least 256Mb RAM installed. If you have met those requirements, follow these steps: First, install the new hard drive on the mounting tray nearest to the IDE ribbon connection socket to the motherboard. Then, attach the Ultra-wide SCSI ribbon and the power cord to the drive. Now, close the case and start the computer. As soon as you can, open the CD tray by pressing the button on the front cover. Insert your installation disc and allow it to start your G4. The disc will appear on the screen and automatically open. Click on the menu bar to find the access to launch the Disk Utility program. Use this program to initialize the new drive and then quit the program. Return to the installer program. Click on the Installer icon to start the installation procedure. As each window opens during the procedure, click on the buttons visible in the window and read everything and decide which answer you want as your personal setting. Continue clicking on the "Continue" button until the installation procedure indicates that it is doing the OS installation. Allow it to do its thing and wait for the instruction to do a restart. Click on restart and eject the disc when the restart is complete. You now have OS-X installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071007/1475c16a/attachment-0001.html From jekrauss at charter.net Sun Oct 7 05:50:52 2007 From: jekrauss at charter.net (Jay E. Krauss Jr) Date: Sun Oct 7 05:51:05 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: WInd Tunnel Getting Louder In-Reply-To: <4F9633C6-32D1-42DF-B932-D97938FB1E71@cox.net> References: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <4F9633C6-32D1-42DF-B932-D97938FB1E71@cox.net> Message-ID: I have two 1.25 MDDs; from experience I can state that the shield inside the front cover (behind the "Buick" vents, can become totally covered over with dust, preventing air entry. Jay E Krauss Jr >On Oct 6, 2007, From: Inga Renault >> >> >>My MDD 866 WInd Tunnel started getting louder a couple of months ago. >>It seems to be holding now, but really, it is quite loud.....have to >>turn the TV on pretty loud to be able to hear it well. > > >I wonder if enough dust covers components that it does not cool as >well. What would happen if you took a air duster can and blew the >insides out including the fans. Maybe it would help. > >F.C. Farwell_______________________________________________ >G4 mailing list >G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 10:31:48 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 10:31:58 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:20:49 -0700, keith_w wrote: >I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. It means the Power-On Self-Test has failed the computer's pre-boot sequence. If you can't pass the POST, I don't think you can get to the terminal to do any of the suggested resets. In my case (dual 1.25, pre-2003), it meant the mobo was fryed. :-( From glynn696 at aol.com Sun Oct 7 10:31:32 2007 From: glynn696 at aol.com (Joe) Date: Sun Oct 7 10:32:32 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Message-ID: I have a Power Mac G4 (Quick silver?) with Dual 1 Gig, a Seagate Barracuda ATA IV Model ST380021A 80 Gbytes Harddrive. The Pin configuration on this drive only has 8 pins the jumper in in the 7,8 slot if the 1,2 is closest to the power cord and 7,8 farthest from Power cord. Question One: When I install the Western Digital 160 HD as the slave it looks as if the pin configuration on the WD should be in the 3,4 spot. Do I need to take out the jumper in the 1,2 position? Do I need to change the Seagate pin positions from 7,8? Question Two: When I start up the computer and put in 10.4 and go to Disk Utility and get info on my 80HD (Master ID=0) and 160HD (Slave ID=1) is that what it should say? Do I need to check this before formatting the new drive? Thanks for the help, Joe Glynn From harry at gifutiger.com Sun Oct 7 10:50:21 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sun Oct 7 10:50:29 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31bb5efe41425975504507f36a98e6d7@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) You should get the .pdf file listed below as it will tell you how to configure the drive prior to installation. http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/100129212b.pdf It's pretty important to get the pin configuration correct, it not the drive won't respond as expected. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Joe wrote: > I have a Power Mac G4 (Quick silver?) with Dual 1 Gig, a Seagate > Barracuda ATA IV Model ST380021A 80 Gbytes Harddrive. The Pin > configuration on this drive only has 8 pins the jumper in in the 7,8 > slot if the 1,2 is closest to the power cord and 7,8 farthest from > Power cord. > Question One: > When I install the Western Digital 160 HD as the slave it looks as if > the pin configuration on the WD should be in the 3,4 spot. Do I need > to take out the jumper in the 1,2 position? Do I need to change the > Seagate pin positions from 7,8? > > Question Two: > When I start up the computer and put in 10.4 and go to Disk Utility > and get info on my 80HD (Master ID=0) and 160HD (Slave ID=1) is that > what it should say? Do I need to check this before formatting the new > drive? > Thanks for the help, > Joe Glynn > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 10:52:24 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 10:52:29 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Swapping SCSI to IDE in G4 Sawtooth In-Reply-To: <20071007021449.72728183276C@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007021449.72728183276C@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On 6 Oct 2007 16:51:29 -0700, Jim S >I have an older Sawtooth, it's a 450 with 2 - 18gig Seagate hard >drives...I have a new 80gig ATA/IDE drive that I'd like to >install...I don't want the SCSI card or drives.... Get an IDE cable. Plug one end of the cable into the IDE HD and the other end into the computer IDE interface. Connect the power...you may need to grab the power cable from one of the SCII drives. Copy your files over. Install a system on the IDE. Remove the SCII stuff. Don't connect or disconnect any cables with the computer running! From harry at gifutiger.com Sun Oct 7 10:53:22 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sun Oct 7 10:53:30 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Start up Chime In-Reply-To: References: <20071006231952.549F0182E9DD@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <5a15f7bda1dc8033390a8e86d934d8f0@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) As best that I know the start-up chime comes after of the memory has been checked and passed. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net wrote: > On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:20:49 -0700, keith_w wrote: > >> I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. > > It means the Power-On Self-Test has failed the computer's pre-boot > sequence. If you can't pass the POST, I don't think you can get to the > terminal to do any of the suggested resets. > > In my case (dual 1.25, pre-2003), it meant the mobo was fryed. :-( > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 11:09:44 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 11:09:51 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: G4 Digest, Vol 38, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <20071007021449.72728183276C@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007021449.72728183276C@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On Oct 6, Inga Renault wrote: > My MDD 866 "WInd Tunnel" started getting louder.... Make sure the fan and processor's heat-sink are clean/clear of dust. Might be worth the effort to pull the heat-sink and redo the thermal compound. From jglynn40 at sprintpcs.com Sun Oct 7 11:24:58 2007 From: jglynn40 at sprintpcs.com (Joseph Glynn) Date: Sun Oct 7 11:25:14 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Message-ID: <0JPK004QR0HNR4@lswsmta04.nmcc.sprintspectrum.com> Looks like if the WD160 is ATA Compatable, I don't need to change the pin configuation from 7,8. If not compatable, I need to add a jumpper across the 5,6 too. Do I try a start up to see if it is compatable? Or how do I find out before? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: "Harry Freeman" To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." Sent: 10/7/07 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Greetings ( + )!( + ) You should get the .pdf file listed below as it will tell you how to configure the drive prior to installation. http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/100129212b.pdf It's pretty important to get the pin configuration correct, it not the drive won't respond as expected. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Joe wrote: > I have a Power Mac G4 (Quick silver?) with Dual 1 Gig, a Seagate > Barracuda ATA IV Model ST380021A 80 Gbytes Harddrive. The Pin > configuration on this drive only has 8 pins the jumper in in the 7,8 > slot if the 1,2 is closest to the power cord and 7,8 farthest from > Power cord. > Question One: > When I install the Western Digital 160 HD as the slave it looks as if > the pin configuration on the WD should be in the 3,4 spot. Do I need > to take out the jumper in the 1,2 position? Do I need to change the > Seagate pin positions from 7,8? > > Question Two: > When I start up the computer and put in 10.4 and go to Disk Utility > and get info on my 80HD (Master ID=0) and 160HD (Slave ID=1) is that > what it should say? Do I need to check this before formatting the new From cecilhal at netzero.net Sun Oct 7 12:54:41 2007 From: cecilhal at netzero.net (cecilhal@netzero.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 12:55:46 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request Message-ID: <20071007.125441.7357.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Hi Ronald. Appreciate your response. I purchased the drive from a power seller on ebay. The seller stated the following in the listing: To ensure Mac OS compatibility and for your peace of mind, drive has been Initialized and tested perfectly with installed Macintosh OS, Apple Drive Setup, and TechTool Utility For faster and greater performance we have fitted this 80 pin drive with a fully tested standard 50 pin SCSI connector and made it backward compatable with SCSI-1 and SCSI-2. Let us know after the auction if you need 68 pin connection. So, since the drive already has an OS This mean that all I really need now is the specific adapter PCI card and ribbon to connect it to the motherboard. Can you direct me to a website (provide a link) where I can purchase these items? If you find such a site I'd appreciate a link directly to the products instead of the store's main web address. I would not know what I am looking for. Thanks in advance. Cecil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071007/02558bd6/attachment.html From briang113 at pacbell.net Sun Oct 7 13:20:22 2007 From: briang113 at pacbell.net (B G) Date: Sun Oct 7 13:20:33 2007 Subject: [G4] Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> References: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <710A70D6-EB3E-4ABB-888F-1189D82A2C94@pacbell.net> There is a possibility it is the power switch assembly, if you are using a Apple brand display with a startup switch, try opening the G4 case and removing the cable to the power switch then start up using the monitor button. BG On Oct 6, 2007, at 1:20 PM, keith_w wrote: > I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. > > I can't seem to make Safe Boot work, nor can I get the Target Disk > Mode to come up, so I can transfer my old CPU data to my brand new > CPU. > > All seem to hinge, in one way or another, on getting that start-up > chime! > > Do I need to do a PRAM reset? > > I think I'll try that anyway, whilst all you folks are considering > my question1 ;-) > > keith whaley > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From harry at gifutiger.com Sun Oct 7 13:29:37 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sun Oct 7 13:29:52 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: G4 Digest, Vol 38, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20071007021449.72728183276C@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <267198bdcda7d2fbfc989bb2bb915c2c@gifutiger.com> Greetings ( + )!( + ) Get a can of air i.e. "Memorex" Air Duster and blow everything clean. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net wrote: > On Oct 6, Inga Renault wrote: > >> My MDD 866 "WInd Tunnel" started getting louder.... > > Make sure the fan and processor's heat-sink are clean/clear of dust. > Might be worth the effort to pull the heat-sink and redo the thermal > compound. > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 > From jimash at optonline.net Sun Oct 7 14:47:55 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Sun Oct 7 14:48:02 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request In-Reply-To: <20071007.125441.7357.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> References: <20071007.125441.7357.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <3DFF8552-456E-4CFF-B9BA-FB4D4B74378D@optonline.net> It's a shame but you are had. That drive and that info are for 1990's Macs. Unless you have a SCSI card installed or your Mac is BEIGE, it is not correct. On Oct 7, 2007, at 3:54 PM, cecilhal@netzero.net wrote: > Hi Ronald. Appreciate your response. I purchased the drive from a > power seller on ebay. The seller stated the following in the listing: > To ensure Mac OS compatibility and for your peace of mind, drive > has been Initialized and tested perfectly with installed Macintosh > OS, Apple Drive Setup, and TechTool Utility For faster and greater > performance we have fitted this 80 pin drive with a fully tested > standard 50 pin SCSI connector and made it backward compatable with > SCSI-1 and SCSI-2. Let us know after the auction if you need 68 pin > connection. So, since the drive already has an OS This mean that > all I really need now is the specific adapter PCI card and ribbon > to connect it to the motherboard. Can you direct me to a website > (provide a link) where I can purchase these items? If you find such > a site I'd appreciate a link directly to the products instead of > the store's main web address. I would not know what I am looking > for. Thanks in advance. > > Cecil > > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From cecilhal at netzero.net Sun Oct 7 15:08:46 2007 From: cecilhal at netzero.net (cecilhal@netzero.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 15:10:11 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request Message-ID: <20071007.150846.27218.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> My G4 is not BEIGH but SILVER. Are you saying that my system cannot be fitted with a SCSI card to match the connector on the SCSI card. Not sure I can upload pictures here. I would love to take pictures of the drive, and SCSI adapter for a better reference. Like they said, a picture is better than a thousand words. Are pictures allowed on in this group. Or maybe you can give me a personal email address where I can upload the pictures. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/g4/attachments/20071007/7dd2a456/attachment.html From harry at gifutiger.com Sun Oct 7 15:21:23 2007 From: harry at gifutiger.com (Harry Freeman) Date: Sun Oct 7 15:21:30 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request In-Reply-To: <20071007.150846.27218.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> References: <20071007.150846.27218.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Greetings ( + )!( + ) How many pins are in the connector and how many rows? Does the connector have the shape of a 'D' if so then it will be know as a 'D' connector of so many pins. and so many rows. Using "DogPile.com" search the internet for D connectors and then you can identify the one that is in you platform. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 3:08 PM, cecilhal@netzero.net wrote: > My G4 is not BEIGH but SILVER.?? Are you saying that my system cannot > be fitted with a SCSI card to match the connector on the SCSI card.? > Not sure I can upload pictures here.? I would love to take pictures of > the drive, and SCSI adapter for a better reference.? Like they said, a > picture is better than a thousand words.? Are pictures allowed on in > this group.? Or maybe you can give me a personal email address where I > can upload the pictures. > Thanks._______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From jglynn40 at sprintpcs.com Sun Oct 7 16:13:31 2007 From: jglynn40 at sprintpcs.com (Joseph Glynn) Date: Sun Oct 7 16:13:46 2007 Subject: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Message-ID: <0JPK003LLDULR2@lswsmta03.nmcc.sprintspectrum.com> For the Disk Utility I'm not sure what settings I should use for the RAID Set Name: ? Volume Format: ? RAID Type: Mirrored Raid Set Striped Raid Set Or Concatenated Disk Set I was having problems with my original 80Gbytes HD, because it is so full, so I'm trying to use the new HD as a back up so I can get my files on a DVD or CD or if my new firewire port works my external Lacie 200GB HD. Lots of options not sure best choice. Thanks for all the help I'm new at all this! Joe -----Original Message----- From: "Joseph Glynn" To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." Sent: 10/7/07 1:24 PM Subject: RE: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Looks like if the WD160 is ATA Compatible, I don't need to change the pin configuration from 7,8. If not compatible, I need to add a jumper across the 5,6 too. Do I try a start up to see if it is compatible? Or how do I find out before? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: "Harry Freeman" To: "A place to discuss Apple's G4 computers." Sent: 10/7/07 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [G4] Adding a Western Digital 160HD Greetings ( + )!( + ) You should get the .pdf file listed below as it will tell you how to configure the drive prior to installation. http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/100129212b.pdf It's pretty important to get the pin configuration correct, it not the drive won't respond as expected. ---------------------------------------------------- On Oct 7, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Joe wrote: > I have a Power Mac G4 (Quick silver?) with Dual 1 Gig, a Seagate > Barracuda ATA IV Model ST380021A 80 Gbytes Harddrive. The Pin > configuration on this drive only has 8 pins the jumper in in the 7,8 > slot if the 1,2 is closest to the power cord and 7,8 farthest from > Power cord. > Question One: From jimash at optonline.net Sun Oct 7 16:26:03 2007 From: jimash at optonline.net (James Asherman) Date: Sun Oct 7 16:26:24 2007 Subject: [G4] Power Mac G4 Hard Drive installation info request In-Reply-To: <20071007.150846.27218.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> References: <20071007.150846.27218.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: If it's a G4 it takes ATA drives. As mentioned the connectors are on the motherboard and if it doesn't have the cable it is a standard item in stores. You can get a SCSI card if there is some reason for YOU to use a SCSI drive, but for the boot drive at least, you want the regular ATA drive like they sell everywhere. And the SCSI info that you posted as relevant to your drive and it's connection was relevant years ago. There are NO SCSI connectors in G4's and forcing it to eat SCSI for breakfast is just more trouble than it is worth. On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:08 PM, cecilhal@netzero.net wrote: > My G4 is not BEIGH but SILVER. Are you saying that my system > cannot be fitted with a SCSI card to match the connector on the > SCSI card. Not sure I can upload pictures here. I would love to > take pictures of the drive, and SCSI adapter for a better > reference. Like they said, a picture is better than a thousand > words. Are pictures allowed on in this group. Or maybe you can > give me a personal email address where I can upload the pictures. > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > G4 mailing list > G4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/g4 From keith_w at dslextreme.com Sun Oct 7 16:30:44 2007 From: keith_w at dslextreme.com (keith_w) Date: Sun Oct 7 16:30:54 2007 Subject: [G4] Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <710A70D6-EB3E-4ABB-888F-1189D82A2C94@pacbell.net> References: <4707EE21.4060401@dslextreme.com> <710A70D6-EB3E-4ABB-888F-1189D82A2C94@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <47096C24.4040802@dslextreme.com> B G wrote: > There is a possibility it is the power switch assembly, if you are using > a Apple brand display with a startup switch, try opening the G4 case and > removing the cable to the power switch then start up using the monitor > button. > > BG Very good thought, BG, but I use an accessory market flat panel LCD monitor, that does NOT have a start button connection. Thanks for the thought. keith whaley > On Oct 6, 2007, at 1:20 PM, keith_w wrote: > >> I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. >> >> I can't seem to make Safe Boot work, nor can I get the Target Disk >> Mode to come up, so I can transfer my old CPU data to my brand new CPU. >> >> All seem to hinge, in one way or another, on getting that start-up chime! >> >> Do I need to do a PRAM reset? >> >> I think I'll try that anyway, whilst all you folks are considering my >> question1 ;-) >> >> keith whaley From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 17:54:21 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 17:54:31 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <20071007202955.6F1241845E4E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007202955.6F1241845E4E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On 7 Oct 2007 10:53:22 -0700, Harry Freeman wrote: >On Oct 7, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net wrote: > > > On 06 Oct 2007 13:20:49 -0700, keith_w wrote: > > >>> I don't GET a start-up chime anymore. >> >> It means the Power-On Self-Test has failed the computer's pre-boot > > sequence. If you can't pass the POST, I don't think you can get to > > the terminal to do any of the suggested resets. >> >> In my case (dual 1.25, pre-2003), it meant the mobo was fryed. :-( > >As best that I know the start-up chime comes after of the memory >has been checked and passed. Ah...yeah. That's what "self-test" includes. But if it doesn't chime, it hasn't past the self-test. So there's no way of knowing if the RAM is bad or good, i.e., it's a dead parrot, deceased, no longer living. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. ;-) From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 17:58:32 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 17:58:40 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: WInd Tunnel Getting Louder In-Reply-To: <20071007202955.6F1241845E4E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007202955.6F1241845E4E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On Oct 6, Inga Renault wrote: > My MDD 866 "WInd Tunnel" started getting louder.... Make sure the air-path to the fan, the fan, and processor's heat-sink are clean/clear of dust. Might be worth the effort to pull the heat-sink and redo the thermal compound. From Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 18:13:35 2007 From: Technophobic_Tom at comcast.net (Technophobic_Tom@comcast.net) Date: Sun Oct 7 18:13:47 2007 Subject: [G4] Re: Start up Chime In-Reply-To: <20071007202955.6F1241845E4E@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071007202955.6F