[MacDV] Re: Super 8 -> miniDV transfer

[Danny Grizzle]

On 12/12/02 6:41 PM, "Richard Brown" <richard at go2rba.com> wrote:

> There are professional Super 8 to Video transfer services, using
> specially outfitted Rank Cintel machines. The look of Super 8 is very
> cool when transferred professionally. The film chains mentioned here
> will not deliver even remotely the same quality as a pro transfer. Some
> resources for Super 8 transfers can be found at
> http://jl-site.com/PostProduction/S8Telecine.html

The link above contains textual references, but no live links to anybody
actually operating a Rank with Super 8 transport. May well be in operation,
but no actual links. I'd classify the references as a rumor until the named
parties can be identified and verified.

The last time I had a Super 8 transfer on a Rank, it was done by Versatile
Video in the San Francisco Bay area, early 1980's. Versatile Video is no
longer in business.

At that time, this was *only* Rank Super 8 gate mechanism in the United
States. Even then, Super 8 was nearly dead & gone; you can be sure no Super
8 transports have been built since. At one time, I had several tracked down
around the world, a couple in Australia, one in England, etc.

Rank transfer of Super 8 is considered to be *by far* the best Super 8 film
to video transfer available. The technology involved has nothing in common
with film chain-type transfers using a mirror box on front of a projector,
or a specially made projector with a port through which to poke a video
camera lens.

The Rank Cintel is a flying spot scanner. Film moves through it in
continuous motion, no intermittent pull down. I suppose it has some kind of
analog frame buffer where somehow individual frames are discriminated using
either the sprocket hole or the frame line as the equivalent of a video sync
burst.

These machines were designed in the late 70's -- I would think there's no
way the market has ever supported retrofitting any Super 8 device with
digital electronics, at least not on the merits of Super 8 transfer volume,
although no telling what has been added to the downstream video signal
processing. The signal coming off them is analog composite video, and was
typically recorded to video using 3/4" U-matic, even at high-end Rank
transfer level.

1" Type-C was an available option with some transfers, at an a' la carte
rate of hundreds of dollars a day. Maybe I am confusing long ago facts, but
I remember sending some film out for transfer by Bob Brodsky in Boston (tell
me if that name rings a bell... to prove your old age, tell me his writing
partner's name). Anyway, I did a comparison, same footage transferred by
Rank and by Bob Brodsky. Only problem -- I didn't own 3/4" playback
equipment and never had another significant Super 8 job, so never evaluated
the side-by-side comparison (though I still have the tapes!... and still
don't have access to a 3.4" machine to view them!). Anyway, I believe
Brodsky had a 1" option, but it required renting a 1" VTR machine for a full
day, adding something like $1,000 overhead to any Super 8 transfer.

All this occurred (Rank Cintel design, Super 8 transport) at a time when 2"
Quad ruled the video world and 1" Type C was an upstart format. I have no
doubt that these old Rank Cintels are monsters to maintain. Hopefully not as
engineering intensive as 2" Quad, but... you have to wonder how much longer
they can be kept running. In the production world, they are the equivalent
of ongoing operational expense of a battleship -- and similar antiquated
technology.

Interesting trivia - Kodak once made an electronic desktop Super 8 flying
spot film scanner nicely built into a set top unit. It looked like a Kodak
Carousel slide projector, the fancy one with wood grain side panels. The
Super I reel laid flat on the top, was processed into a captive internal
reel, then rewound back out the top. This device was available in two
models: one accepting external house black, the other a consumer model with
internal sync. It was pricy, but I finally had a chance to touch one through
an employer, though it was broken. The market was hoped to be local TV
stations. Kodak offered Super 8 Ektachrome emulsions and a chemical-based
equivalent of a 1-hour photo lab. Shoot local news, process film dry-to-dry
in under an hour, throw film on Kodak telecine, go to broadcast. This was
all early to mid 70's, an alternate to 16mm news cameras, mainly targeted at
small market TV stations that could not affort an onsite 16mm film lab.

Aside - I've met more than one video engineer who got his start as a kid
monkeying around with this little Kodak Super 8 telecine, including some
guys who grew up to be SMPTE officers.

I've still got an entire file cabinet drawer full of product literature on
all this stuff and much, much more. Bizarre, I know, but it amuses me to
revisit once in a while... hey, some guys collect firearms, some guys
antique Porshe's. I've never had money to collect Super 8, but I hand onto
the sales literature, magazines, & catalogs.

> When getting a transfer to DV, consider DVCam instead of MiniDV format.
> Most MiniDV camcorders and decks can play back DVCam, which is just a
> little bit better in terms of overall quality.

There is no difference between DV and DVCAM video signal so far as codec is
concerned. DVCAM simply uses more tape to store the DV signal. The main
advantage is slight additional protection from tape drop out, plus DVCAM has
locked audio. Of course, DVCAM being more upscale, the quality of the
equipment associated with DVCAM tends to be substantially higher. At the
cost of a Rank Cintel transfer, frankly, I would get DVCAM *and* another
format (Digital Beta?), because the added expense of a duplicate safety
master in an alternate format would not be of great consequence.

For family movies, this would be the domain of persons of substantial means.
That, and films with historical significance such as Zapruder, the most
famous home movie ever made.

If you want a Rank Cintel transfer, better get it soon. I have to wonder how
long these devices will be in operation with Super 8 gates. They cost
something like $250,000 back in the 1970's, and no telling what they cost to
keep operational today, or if parts are available. I have no idea if any
modern telecine is compatible with the Super 8 transport, or if 8mm & Super
8 transports are an available option for any modern telecine.

One last comment -- before the day of the 1-hour photo mini lab, there used
to be a photofinisher chain called Photohut (?) which had retail operations
in small kiosks located in shopping center parking lots. I think they were
mainly in Southern California.  Johnny Carson mentioned them often in
monologs. Anyway, these guys set up a serious 8mm and Super 8 film-to-video
transfer capability in the early days of Betamax and VHS. I believe they
built out a custom facility and designed proprietary film chain equipment.
This reputation was this was the best transfer money could buy short of
going to a master craftsman like Bob Brodsky (Brodski ?) or a full blown
feature film type Rank Cintel transfer. I wonder what became of all the gear
in the Photohut facility. Maybe it is still floating around somewhere in an
obscure lab.

If anyone has questions, please hesitate to ask. I've got all the facts in
my files, but it is *so* much easier if I can go off memory and don't have
to document this stuff!

Danny Grizzle