From bourquec at cc.umanitoba.ca Fri Feb 16 13:19:22 2007 From: bourquec at cc.umanitoba.ca (Christopher Bourque) Date: Fri Feb 16 13:19:45 2007 Subject: [MV] Naturally Speaking Message-ID: on a dual Mac. Any experience? cb From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 16 13:34:00 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (Valerie Maples) Date: Fri Feb 16 13:34:17 2007 Subject: [MV] Naturally Speaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am running DNS on my Intel core duo in Parallels (Win XP Pro) and love it! I already owned DNS and XP, so the $80 for Parallels was a no-brainer. HTH! Valerie Maples 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB DDR2 SDRAM OS X 10.4.8 On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Christopher Bourque wrote: > on a dual Mac. Any experience? > > cb From kaimanl at comcast.net Sat Feb 17 15:36:13 2007 From: kaimanl at comcast.net (kaimanl@comcast.net) Date: Sat Feb 17 15:36:24 2007 Subject: [MV] Naturally Speaking Message-ID: <021720072336.2330.45D7916D000E0EEA0000091A220699849904020E03070E05@comcast.net> I have the current 15" MacBook Pro with · 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo · 2GB memory · 120GB hard drive1 I partitioned my drive and loaded Windows XP Pro using Boot Camp. I boot into Windows to use DNS Professional Medical. So far, it has been great and has exceeded my expectations. I don't know if the DNS Professional has a better speech engine or not - I think that the main difference is just the specialized vocabulary that comes with it. I used DNS about 7 years ago for business school (on a Dell laptop) and found that its error rate was too high requiring too many corrections. The current version is a whole lot faster and more accurate. Compared to iListen, I find DNS much easier to use out of the box, or with a little training. Since iListen doesn't offer specialized vocabularies, this is a no brainer for me. Even without the specialized vocabulary, DNS is faster and more accurate with less training. I consider myself a Mac die-hard, but for dictating, I'm going to use DNS in windows because it's so much better. Kai-Man -------------- Original message -------------- From: Christopher Bourque > on a dual Mac. Any experience? > > cb > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/macvoice/attachments/20070217/37fd0e07/attachment-0001.html From wmforweb at verizon.net Sat Feb 17 16:07:26 2007 From: wmforweb at verizon.net (wmforweb@verizon.net) Date: Sat Feb 17 16:08:19 2007 Subject: [MV] please unsubscribe me. Message-ID: <8329C1CE-B7B8-4878-BB49-C3B3FD2A2116@verizon.net> thank you. From rsadono at calarts.edu Sun Feb 18 08:52:01 2007 From: rsadono at calarts.edu (Regina Sadono) Date: Sun Feb 18 08:52:58 2007 Subject: [MV] Getting Messages In-Reply-To: <20070217233628.BD791918129@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: I've been subscribed to this list for 2-3 months and yet these (MacVoice Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10... dated 2/17/03) are the first messages I have received. Have there been technical problems? Thanks, Regina From jj4 at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 18 10:16:19 2007 From: jj4 at sympatico.ca (Snow White) Date: Sun Feb 18 10:16:28 2007 Subject: [MV] Getting Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09390dd6b951321462b35f8b99209047@sympatico.ca> Just not a busy list but if you ask a question many people will answer, including Chuck from iListen. Many of the list members have been users for many years with experience on all the choices on both platforms. In short you will get good info here, but it's quite. jj On 18-Feb-07, at 11:52 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > I've been subscribed to this list for 2-3 months and yet these > (MacVoice > Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10... dated 2/17/03) are the first messages I > have > received. Have there been technical problems? > Thanks, > Regina > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From randy at macattorney.com Sun Feb 18 15:33:34 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sun Feb 18 15:33:50 2007 Subject: [MV] Getting Messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 18, 2007, at 8:52 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > I've been subscribed to this list for 2-3 months and yet these > (MacVoice > Digest, Vol 20, Issue 10... dated 2/17/03) are the first messages I > have > received. Have there been technical problems? No, you just have to ask a question to receive answers. If you bring up the endlessly popular topics of whether iLIsten is as good as Dragon Naturally Speaking on Windows, or which microphone is best for volce recognition, or what you have to do to get the best accuracy with any speech recognition product, you will undoubtedly see a bunch of responses. 8-{) Maybe we should have a FAQ (frequently asked questions ) section for this list? ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (3rd, 4th, and 5th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From scheiner at pipeline.com Sun Feb 18 17:36:09 2007 From: scheiner at pipeline.com (Ellen Scheiner M.D.) Date: Sun Feb 18 17:36:21 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro Message-ID: Am proud owner of new MacBook Pro. Have obtained Parallels, Windows, and after installation, will try to install Dragon Naturally Speaking v. 9.0. Am a Mac person and have been using PC forDNS. Am looking forward to a Mac that Listens well I'm sure many of you have done this. Do you have any hints to expedite the process. Thanks, Ellen -- Ellen Scheiner, M.D. 6 Lacrosse Place Chapel Hill, NC 27517-8664 919-425-5390 voice 919-869-1816 fax mailto:scheiner@pipeline.com From coolcat at hosting4days.com Sun Feb 18 19:42:21 2007 From: coolcat at hosting4days.com (revDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 18 19:42:29 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/18/2007 5:36 PM, "Ellen Scheiner M.D." wrote: > Am proud owner of new MacBook Pro. Have obtained Parallels, Windows, > and after installation, will try to install Dragon Naturally Speaking > v. 9.0. Am a Mac person and have been using PC forDNS. Am looking > forward to a Mac that Listens well I'm looking forward to your info....... -- Thanks - RevDave CoolCat@hosting4days.com [db-lists] From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Mon Feb 19 14:39:28 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (vlmaples@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Feb 19 14:39:38 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro Message-ID: <20070219223929.XNOY27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Ellen; I have a new iMac that I bought in November with 2GB of RAM and installed Parallels and an older version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, 7.3. It works marvelously, in fact, I am replying to e-mail online using it. Are you going to be using NaturallySpeaking Professional, medical, or preferred? I would have different recommendations depending on which version you're using. If you're using professional, I would run through as many documents as you can to establish your medical vocabulary. Another useful third-party tool is KnowBrainer and their medical dictionaries. That is personally what I use. However, I have not install that here since I'm still waiting for a final fix on Parallels update for when they accommodate accessibility modifications. I still use iListen in my Mac applications for simple tasks that are repetitive, but the fact that it will not acknowledge my last name correctly nor any of the medical terms I use, it is easier to work in Parallels for lengthy, or medical documents. Let me know if I can help in any way... Valerie ============================================================ From: "Ellen Scheiner M.D." Date: 2007/02/18 Sun PM 08:36:09 EST To: macvoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro Am proud owner of new MacBook Pro. Have obtained Parallels, Windows, and after installation, will try to install Dragon Naturally Speaking v. 9.0. Am a Mac person and have been using PC forDNS. Am looking forward to a Mac that Listens well I'm sure many of you have done this. Do you have any hints to expedite the process. Thanks, Ellen -- Ellen Scheiner, M.D. 6 Lacrosse Place Chapel Hill, NC 27517-8664 919-425-5390 voice 919-869-1816 fax mailto:scheiner@pipeline.com _______________________________________________ MacVoice mailing list MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 ============================================================ Valerie Check out my girls at: http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Mon Feb 19 14:47:08 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Mon Feb 19 14:48:58 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: <20070219223929.XNOY27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20070219223929.XNOY27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3E965830-BD4B-4297-AFD2-AF5E40980FBA@macspeech.com> All: I just had to chime in here. I can't speak to Valerie not being able to get iListen to recognize "Maples." I happened to be testing microphones today and just tried it myself, and could get it to do so consistently after only 4 corrections. Regarding medical terms, we have many physicians using iListen to enter medical terms. They use iListen's Learn My Writing Style feature to add the words they use and, because the program learns the new words in context, they get very good accuracy without having to pollute their profile with thousands of words they will never use. We have researched doing a medical vocabulary, and we keep coming back to the fact that adding words with the Learn My Writing Style feature is simply a better approach, even though it does take a bit longer to add the words. We are aware that Dragon will give the user better accuracy initially, but over time this advantage disappears as iListen continues to improve as you use it. In fact, we have a doctor in Gainesville, FL who used Dragon NaturallySpeaking for 5 years before switching to iListen and he insists we are even more accurate! (We acknowledge this may not be the case for everyone, but I wanted to share that, nonetheless.) Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Feb 19, 2007, at 4:39 PM, wrote: > Dear Ellen; > > I have a new iMac that I bought in November with 2GB of RAM and > installed Parallels and an older version of Dragon > NaturallySpeaking, 7.3. It works marvelously, in fact, I am > replying to e-mail online using it. Are you going to be using > NaturallySpeaking Professional, medical, or preferred? I would > have different recommendations depending on which version you're > using. If you're using professional, I would run through as many > documents as you can to establish your medical vocabulary. Another > useful third-party tool is KnowBrainer and their medical > dictionaries. That is personally what I use. However, I have not > install that here since I'm still waiting for a final fix on > Parallels update for when they accommodate accessibility > modifications. > > I still use iListen in my Mac applications for simple tasks that > are repetitive, but the fact that it will not acknowledge my last > name correctly nor any of the medical terms I use, it is easier to > work in Parallels for lengthy, or medical documents. > > Let me know if I can help in any way... > Valerie > > > ============================================================ > From: "Ellen Scheiner M.D." > Date: 2007/02/18 Sun PM 08:36:09 EST > To: macvoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro > > Am proud owner of new MacBook Pro. Have obtained Parallels, Windows, > and after installation, will try to install Dragon Naturally Speaking > v. 9.0. Am a Mac person and have been using PC forDNS. Am looking > forward to a Mac that Listens well > > I'm sure many of you have done this. Do you have any hints to > expedite the process. > > Thanks, > Ellen > -- > Ellen Scheiner, M.D. > 6 Lacrosse Place > Chapel Hill, NC 27517-8664 > 919-425-5390 voice > 919-869-1816 fax > mailto:scheiner@pipeline.com > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > ============================================================ > > > Valerie > > Check out my girls at: > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From JSenecal at aol.com Mon Feb 19 17:14:05 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Mon Feb 19 17:14:19 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: <20070219223929.XNOY27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20070219223929.XNOY27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <5CFAF02D-C4A8-4FF1-B839-47640A04EAA8@aol.com> On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:39 PM, wrote: > I still use iListen in my Mac applications for simple tasks that > are repetitive, but the fact that it will not acknowledge my last > name correctly nor any of the medical terms I use, it is easier to > work in Parallels for lengthy, or medical documents. Just a note that sometimes you need to use the phonetic editor to get iListen to recognize words as you say them. For example, my last name. Not being a master of the phonetic alphabet (and being too lazy to look it up each time I need it), I just enter words that have the sounds I want into the "What I say" panel, create phonemes for that, then delete extra phonemes (which are usually easy to spot). For example, for my name I enter something like "send sick coal", create the phonemes ("s e n d s I k k O l"), then remove the extra phonemes for everything other than "sen i coal" (s e n I k O l) before adding the word. Most of the time you don't need to do this, but if iListen persists in not recognizing a word, it can be worth checking to see what phonemes it's expecting for a word using the "What you Say" panel. Even if you've already added the word, you can add it again with a different phonetic to improve recognition. Joe Senecal From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Mon Feb 19 21:31:28 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (vlmaples@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Feb 19 21:31:40 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro Message-ID: <20070220053128.HCFC27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hi, Joe! I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user on both platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not capitalize my name unless I give that command. I have both corrected it every single time it is typed, as well as "taught" through documents, especially focusing on one's with our family name in high frequency. Despite correcting every lowercase occurrence of my last name (Maples), it never appears in the correction window. I also started a new profile in case there was some corruption in an old one, and that did not improve. I started another profile when I got my new computer, and it still has the same behavior. In short, I have never been able to overcome the lowercase appearance of my name, with the exception of telling it to capitalize every occurrence. Since that is not natural for me, it is easier for me to dictate name intensive communication in NaturallySpeaking which is available to me on the same computer. Because the correction mechanism for NaturallySpeaking is infinitely easier and more rapid, in addition to being intuitive as you progress through the correction, it is a good option for me. Much of my dictation is medical in nature, but not from a history of documents that I could feed in for training. Again, because of that fact, Dragon NaturallySpeaking works better for those instances. Perhaps for a doctor in practice where his vocabulary is standard and he has an extensive history of documents with his primary unique words, then it would work well. That just is not my case. Since I already own both products, it's not competition or a test, but simply a matter of efficiency. I still use both products, each has its own place. I have no desire to go back to a full Windows environment with all the software issues, hardware issues, as well as viruses and other malicious offenders that slow them down. Parallels running Windows XP professional with Dragon NaturallySpeaking is a perfect solution for me for my more complex communication. Since I am virtually totally dependent on speech recognition due to issues with my hands, it is worth my time to invest in improving my productivity and efficiency. Thanks for your comments! Valerie ============================================================ From: Joseph Senecal Date: 2007/02/19 Mon PM 08:14:05 EST To: "A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh." Subject: Re: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:39 PM, wrote: > I still use iListen in my Mac applications for simple tasks that > are repetitive, but the fact that it will not acknowledge my last > name correctly nor any of the medical terms I use, it is easier to > work in Parallels for lengthy, or medical documents. Just a note that sometimes you need to use the phonetic editor to get iListen to recognize words as you say them. For example, my last name. Not being a master of the phonetic alphabet (and being too lazy to look it up each time I need it), I just enter words that have the sounds I want into the "What I say" panel, create phonemes for that, then delete extra phonemes (which are usually easy to spot). For example, for my name I enter something like "send sick coal", create the phonemes ("s e n d s I k k O l"), then remove the extra phonemes for everything other than "sen i coal" (s e n I k O l) before adding the word. Most of the time you don't need to do this, but if iListen persists in not recognizing a word, it can be worth checking to see what phonemes it's expecting for a word using the "What you Say" panel. Even if you've already added the word, you can add it again with a different phonetic to improve recognition. Joe Senecal Valerie Check out my girls at: http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Mon Feb 19 21:31:38 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (vlmaples@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Feb 19 21:31:45 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro Message-ID: <20070220053138.HCFH27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hi, Joe! I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user on both platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not capitalize my name unless I give that command. I have both corrected it every single time it is typed, as well as "taught" through documents, especially focusing on one's with our family name in high frequency. Despite correcting every lowercase occurrence of my last name (Maples), it never appears in the correction window. I also started a new profile in case there was some corruption in an old one, and that did not improve. I started another profile when I got my new computer, and it still has the same behavior. In short, I have never been able to overcome the lowercase appearance of my name, with the exception of telling it to capitalize every occurrence. Since that is not natural for me, it is easier for me to dictate name intensive communication in NaturallySpeaking which is available to me on the same computer. Because the correction mechanism for NaturallySpeaking is infinitely easier and more rapid, in addition to being intuitive as you progress through the correction, it is a good option for me. Much of my dictation is medical in nature, but not from a history of documents that I could feed in for training. Again, because of that fact, Dragon NaturallySpeaking works better for those instances. Perhaps for a doctor in practice where his vocabulary is standard and he has an extensive history of documents with his primary unique words, then it would work well. That just is not my case. Since I already own both products, it's not competition or a test, but simply a matter of efficiency. I still use both products, each has its own place. I have no desire to go back to a full Windows environment with all the software issues, hardware issues, as well as viruses and other malicious offenders that slow them down. Parallels running Windows XP professional with Dragon NaturallySpeaking is a perfect solution for me for my more complex communication. Since I am virtually totally dependent on speech recognition due to issues with my hands, it is worth my time to invest in improving my productivity and efficiency. Thanks for your comments! Valerie ============================================================ From: Joseph Senecal Date: 2007/02/19 Mon PM 08:14:05 EST To: "A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh." Subject: Re: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro On Feb 19, 2007, at 2:39 PM, wrote: > I still use iListen in my Mac applications for simple tasks that > are repetitive, but the fact that it will not acknowledge my last > name correctly nor any of the medical terms I use, it is easier to > work in Parallels for lengthy, or medical documents. Just a note that sometimes you need to use the phonetic editor to get iListen to recognize words as you say them. For example, my last name. Not being a master of the phonetic alphabet (and being too lazy to look it up each time I need it), I just enter words that have the sounds I want into the "What I say" panel, create phonemes for that, then delete extra phonemes (which are usually easy to spot). For example, for my name I enter something like "send sick coal", create the phonemes ("s e n d s I k k O l"), then remove the extra phonemes for everything other than "sen i coal" (s e n I k O l) before adding the word. Most of the time you don't need to do this, but if iListen persists in not recognizing a word, it can be worth checking to see what phonemes it's expecting for a word using the "What you Say" panel. Even if you've already added the word, you can add it again with a different phonetic to improve recognition. Joe Senecal Valerie Check out my girls at: http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples From bourquec at cc.umanitoba.ca Tue Feb 20 10:53:31 2007 From: bourquec at cc.umanitoba.ca (Christopher Bourque) Date: Tue Feb 20 10:53:46 2007 Subject: [MV] Dual mac/DNS Message-ID: I appreciate the commentary. I am a physician who tried Power Secretary 11 years ago and could not make a go of it. I found ViaVoice much better but this is not an option on newer systems. Although I have not purchased the latest edition of iListen, I simply was not happy with my error rate in prior editions, despite multiple trainings and multiple suggested mics, including a $400 Sennheiser. Many of my associates are using DNS and seemingly doing well. I finally concluded that I had one of those voices that did not train well with iListen. So I was anxious to hear how things were going with Parallels/Windows/DNS on a dual Mac. Guess I'll try this option. Thanks. chris bourque From coolcat at hosting4days.com Tue Feb 20 20:13:00 2007 From: coolcat at hosting4days.com (revDAVE) Date: Tue Feb 20 20:13:12 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: <20070220053128.HCFC27587.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" wrote: > Hi, Joe! > > I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user on both > platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not capitalize my name > unless I give that command. In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct spelling and capitalization of your own name) 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe not say your actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use some other gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish word ' tata toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? -- Thanks - RevDave CoolCat@hosting4days.com [db-lists] From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Tue Feb 20 20:31:35 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Tue Feb 20 20:32:08 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave (and everyone else): I'll chime in here, but Joe is certainly welcome to provide more details if he would like. The short answer is yes, iListen has been able to do that since version 1.1, although the procedure is just a bit different from ViaVoice. With iListen there is no need to repeat any sound - you just say the sound (or nonsense word) when you are dictating, and you teach it to iListen during the Correction process. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:13 PM, revDAVE wrote: > On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" > > wrote: > >> Hi, Joe! >> >> I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user >> on both >> platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not >> capitalize my name >> unless I give that command. > > In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: > > 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct > spelling > and capitalization of your own name) > 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe not > say your > actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use > some other > gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) > > 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish word > ' tata > toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly > > Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? > > -- > Thanks - RevDave > CoolCat@hosting4days.com > [db-lists] > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 20 20:39:18 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (Valerie Maples) Date: Tue Feb 20 20:39:34 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are many workarounds, none of them natural, especially when it comes to your name, IMHO. Having to call yourself something other than yourself and that of all your family members is just not functional in my opinion when I have no name recognition problems in DNS and it is already available to me. I have inesvted hours and hours in training and correction, and it is not worthy of any more of my time. I am sole caregiver to a quadriplegic husband and handicapped daughter and my time is truly precious. I should have been able to fix this by now and not resort to workarounds, so I have moved on to something that just works every time the way it should. I use iListen for other things, just not name intensive or medical writing. Valerie Check out my kids at: http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:13 PM, revDAVE wrote: > On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" > > wrote: > >> Hi, Joe! >> >> I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user >> on both >> platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not >> capitalize my name >> unless I give that command. > > In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: > > 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct > spelling > and capitalization of your own name) > 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe not > say your > actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use > some other > gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) > > 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish word > ' tata > toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly > > Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? > > -- > Thanks - RevDave From kalirhe at umdnj.edu Tue Feb 20 21:03:01 2007 From: kalirhe at umdnj.edu (Henry Kalir) Date: Tue Feb 20 21:03:20 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu> Valerie, Do you use DNS on a Mac, or on a PC? Best, Henry PS - All the more power to you in caring for your family! Valerie Maples wrote: > There are many workarounds, none of them natural, especially when it > comes to your name, IMHO. Having to call yourself something other > than yourself and that of all your family members is just not > functional in my opinion when I have no name recognition problems in > DNS and it is already available to me. I have inesvted hours and > hours in training and correction, and it is not worthy of any more of > my time. I am sole caregiver to a quadriplegic husband and > handicapped daughter and my time is truly precious. > > I should have been able to fix this by now and not resort to > workarounds, so I have moved on to something that just works every > time the way it should. I use iListen for other things, just not > name intensive or medical writing. > > Valerie > > Check out my kids at: > > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples > http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:13 PM, revDAVE wrote: > >> On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Joe! >>> >>> I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user on >>> both >>> platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not capitalize >>> my name >>> unless I give that command. >> >> >> In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: >> >> 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct >> spelling >> and capitalization of your own name) >> 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe not >> say your >> actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use some >> other >> gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) >> >> 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish word ' >> tata >> toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly >> >> Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? >> >> -- >> Thanks - RevDave > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > From vlmaples at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 20 21:11:48 2007 From: vlmaples at bellsouth.net (Valerie Maples) Date: Tue Feb 20 21:12:19 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu> References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu> Message-ID: <46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> Hi, Henry! I now use it almost exclusively on my iMac, although it is also on my PCC phone server. I prefer my Mac since I do lots of photography stuff as well as security and productivity of Mac apps. Since I already owned DNS Pro and Windows XP Pro, the cost for Parallels was an easy one. I have used DNS since it was Dragon Dictate and iListen for probably 3 years. I used ViaVoice on both platforms from 2000-2005 as well and other, lesser known programs trying to find the best match. Speech recognition has revolutionized our house and the evolution is amazing! Valerie Check out my kids at: http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples On Feb 20, 2007, at 11:03 PM, Henry Kalir wrote: > Valerie, > > Do you use DNS on a Mac, or on a PC? > > Best, > > Henry > > PS - All the more power to you in caring for your family! > > Valerie Maples wrote: > >> There are many workarounds, none of them natural, especially when >> it comes to your name, IMHO. Having to call yourself something >> other than yourself and that of all your family members is just >> not functional in my opinion when I have no name recognition >> problems in DNS and it is already available to me. I have >> inesvted hours and hours in training and correction, and it is >> not worthy of any more of my time. I am sole caregiver to a >> quadriplegic husband and handicapped daughter and my time is >> truly precious. >> >> I should have been able to fix this by now and not resort to >> workarounds, so I have moved on to something that just works >> every time the way it should. I use iListen for other things, >> just not name intensive or medical writing. >> >> Valerie >> >> Check out my kids at: >> >> http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples >> http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples >> http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples >> >> >> On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:13 PM, revDAVE wrote: >> >>> On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Joe! >>>> >>>> I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced >>>> user on both >>>> platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not >>>> capitalize my name >>>> unless I give that command. >>> >>> >>> In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: >>> >>> 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct >>> spelling >>> and capitalization of your own name) >>> 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe >>> not say your >>> actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use >>> some other >>> gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) >>> >>> 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish >>> word ' tata >>> toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly >>> >>> Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? >>> >>> -- >>> Thanks - RevDave >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacVoice mailing list >> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >> >> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >> stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 >> > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From kalirhe at umdnj.edu Tue Feb 20 23:37:42 2007 From: kalirhe at umdnj.edu (Henry Kalir) Date: Tue Feb 20 23:38:03 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: <46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu> <46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> Hi Valerie, That's great! So - you're using DNS on Win XP running on a MacPro (or some other MacIntel)? I need to move on to speech recognition, but the choices are somewhat confusing. Is DNS still coming out with new versions? Did you notice any **significant** improvement in the new version of iListen?? Best, Henry Valerie Maples wrote: > Hi, Henry! > > I now use it almost exclusively on my iMac, although it is also on my > PCC phone server. I prefer my Mac since I do lots of photography > stuff as well as security and productivity of Mac apps. Since I > already owned DNS Pro and Windows XP Pro, the cost for Parallels was > an easy one. I have used DNS since it was Dragon Dictate and iListen > for probably 3 years. I used ViaVoice on both platforms from > 2000-2005 as well and other, lesser known programs trying to find the > best match. > > Speech recognition has revolutionized our house and the evolution is > amazing! > Valerie > > Check out my kids at: > > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples > http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples > http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples > > > On Feb 20, 2007, at 11:03 PM, Henry Kalir wrote: > >> Valerie, >> >> Do you use DNS on a Mac, or on a PC? >> >> Best, >> >> Henry >> >> PS - All the more power to you in caring for your family! >> >> Valerie Maples wrote: >> >>> There are many workarounds, none of them natural, especially when >>> it comes to your name, IMHO. Having to call yourself something >>> other than yourself and that of all your family members is just >>> not functional in my opinion when I have no name recognition >>> problems in DNS and it is already available to me. I have >>> inesvted hours and hours in training and correction, and it is not >>> worthy of any more of my time. I am sole caregiver to a >>> quadriplegic husband and handicapped daughter and my time is truly >>> precious. >>> >>> I should have been able to fix this by now and not resort to >>> workarounds, so I have moved on to something that just works every >>> time the way it should. I use iListen for other things, just not >>> name intensive or medical writing. >>> >>> Valerie >>> >>> Check out my kids at: >>> >>> http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/nicholemaples >>> http://www.caringbridge.org/ms/cindymaples >>> http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/jorgemaples >>> >>> >>> On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:13 PM, revDAVE wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/19/2007 9:31 PM, "vlmaples@bellsouth.net" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Joe! >>>>> >>>>> I think by most standards I would be considered an advanced user >>>>> on both >>>>> platforms. The problem with iListen is that it does not >>>>> capitalize my name >>>>> unless I give that command. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: >>>> >>>> 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct >>>> spelling >>>> and capitalization of your own name) >>>> 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe >>>> not say your >>>> actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use >>>> some other >>>> gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) >>>> >>>> 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish >>>> word ' tata >>>> toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly >>>> >>>> Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thanks - RevDave >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacVoice mailing list >>> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >>> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >>> >>> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >>> stuff: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacVoice mailing list >> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >> >> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >> stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > > From rsadono at calarts.edu Wed Feb 21 08:55:28 2007 From: rsadono at calarts.edu (Regina Sadono) Date: Wed Feb 21 08:56:32 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Dear All, I have CTS in both hands and need to incorporate voice recognition into my computer use. Several years ago I bought iListen just to experiment with voice recognition and I tried for days to train it, even starting over several times, and never reached anything even remotely approaching an acceptable accuracy rate. Last summer, after the CTS diagnosis, I tried again, still with poor results. I was thinking about getting the newer version, but most of the reviews on Amazon described exactly the same kind of frustrating situation I had experienced with the older version. At the same time was given DNS on my PC at work and almost fell over when I found how easy it was to train and use with a very high accuracy rate almost immediately. I am a fundraiser and have to do a lot of different kinds of writing using fairly technical language. Since I have a MacBook with Intel I started looking into setting my home computer up so I could use DNS. (I'm a Mac person through and through!) However, when I researched this I heard that there are bugs, and I am just not computer savvy. Plus I heard that running Windows on my Mac would make me vulnerable to all the virulent computer viruses out there. Since there are so many experienced people on this list, I would like to find out if either of these things are really true. Also, what would I do exactly? Install Parallels, then Windows XP, then DNS? I also heard that Windows XP runs better with Boot Camp for some reason -- I think having to do with how much resources it uses up for your computer to run both systems at the same time. What is the difference between Parallels and Bootcamp? Are there any voice recognition products in the works for the Mac that are commensurate with DNS? One more thing, while I'm at it.... I have been a writer for all of my life and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded through the activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this process orally. Speaking is a completely different neurological process and puts me in a completely different place where I can't "compose." In fact speaking seems to interrupt my writing process just like throwing stones into a pond disturbs the water. I'm sure others have gone through this to rewire their writing mechanism for voice recognition and I would be very interested if someone could write out the steps they went through or point me to a place where someone has outlined these steps. Thanks everyone for all of your help! Warm regards, Regina From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Wed Feb 21 09:29:15 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Wed Feb 21 09:30:54 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C1BCD08-AF87-418B-8277-DD2FE3AAD10D@macspeech.com> Regina (and everyone else): Sorry you had a poor experience with iListen in the past. Did you contact our support department and have them work with you? I can tell you from experience and from direct contact with literally hundreds of users over the years that you absolutely can achieve near 100% accuracy with iListen. How near? A lot depends on how much you work with it. We have people who use it for two weeks and are getting above 98% accuracy. Our most extreme example is a physician with an east Indian accent who was using the US version. It took him 9 months, but he insists he is getting at least 99% accuracy after he continued to work with the software. Any speech recognition program requires a practiced approach in order to get the best results, and ours is no different. The beauty of iListen, of course, is that you can dictate into virtually any application and you don't have to use Windows (either in Parallels or by rebooting) to use it. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers ==================================================== There are two types of people in the world: those who divide the world into two types of people and those who don't. On Feb 21, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > Dear All, > > I have CTS in both hands and need to incorporate voice recognition > into my > computer use. Several years ago I bought iListen just to > experiment with > voice recognition and I tried for days to train it, even starting over > several times, and never reached anything even remotely approaching an > acceptable accuracy rate. Last summer, after the CTS diagnosis, I > tried > again, still with poor results. I was thinking about getting the > newer > version, but most of the reviews on Amazon described exactly the > same kind > of frustrating situation I had experienced with the older version. > > At the same time was given DNS on my PC at work and almost fell > over when I > found how easy it was to train and use with a very high accuracy > rate almost > immediately. I am a fundraiser and have to do a lot of different > kinds of > writing using fairly technical language. Since I have a MacBook > with Intel I > started looking into setting my home computer up so I could use > DNS. (I'm a > Mac person through and through!) > > However, when I researched this I heard that there are bugs, and I > am just > not computer savvy. Plus I heard that running Windows on my Mac > would make > me vulnerable to all the virulent computer viruses out there. > Since there > are so many experienced people on this list, I would like to find > out if > either of these things are really true. > > Also, what would I do exactly? Install Parallels, then Windows XP, > then DNS? > I also heard that Windows XP runs better with Boot Camp for some > reason -- I > think having to do with how much resources it uses up for your > computer to > run both systems at the same time. What is the difference between > Parallels > and Bootcamp? Are there any voice recognition products in the > works for the > Mac that are commensurate with DNS? > > One more thing, while I'm at it.... I have been a writer for all of > my life > and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating > words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded > through the > activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very > specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this > process orally. Speaking is a completely different neurological > process and > puts me in a completely different place where I can't "compose." In > fact > speaking seems to interrupt my writing process just like throwing > stones > into a pond disturbs the water. I'm sure others have gone through > this to > rewire their writing mechanism for voice recognition and I would be > very > interested if someone could write out the steps they went through > or point > me to a place where someone has outlined these steps. > > Thanks everyone for all of your help! > > Warm regards, > > Regina > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From randy at macattorney.com Wed Feb 21 11:25:06 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Wed Feb 21 11:25:11 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99853D05-ED00-4A30-B023-5A438646649E@macattorney.com> On Feb 21, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > I have CTS in both hands and need to incorporate voice recognition > into my > computer use. Several years ago I bought iListen just to > experiment with > voice recognition and I tried for days to train it, even starting over > several times, and never reached anything even remotely approaching an > acceptable accuracy rate. "Starting over several times" is probably the surest path to ensuring that you will not reach a high level of accuracy. You have to keep training the program to achieve a steady improvement in the recognition rate. Unfortunately this will require some tenacity. You can't give up after only a few days. > Plus I heard that running Windows on my Mac would make > me vulnerable to all the virulent computer viruses out there. > Since there > are so many experienced people on this list, I would like to find > out if > either of these things are really true. It's true that running Windows on your Mac opens you up to being infected by just about all of the malware that exists for Windows, but it is fairly easy to avoid this problem. There are two main vectors for infection under Windows: the Internet and sharing software with others. So, if you refrain from using Windows to access the Internet (and this should be easy as OS X can do whatever you want to on the Internet) and if you don't share software, you should be fine. There are some very nice, free, effective, anti-virus programs for Windows that you can install also. Let me know if you need a recommendation. Note that there are no known cases (at least that I know of ) of a Windows infection on your Windows partition damaging your data on your Mac partition. So if worse comes to worse, you can wipe your Windows partition and start over. This shouldn't be a big deal if you are only using Windows for a couple of mission critical applications. > One more thing, while I'm at it.... I have been a writer for all of > my life > and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating > words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded > through the > activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very > specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this > process orally. Speaking is a completely different neurological > process and > puts me in a completely different place where I can't "compose." In > fact > speaking seems to interrupt my writing process just like throwing > stones > into a pond disturbs the water. I'm sure others have gone through > this to > rewire their writing mechanism for voice recognition and I would be > very > interested if someone could write out the steps they went through > or point > me to a place where someone has outlined these steps. When I got my first office job, they worked by dictating into a Dictaphone. I had never done this before. Things that normally would have taken me very little time to write suddenly were taking as much as four times as long. I really can't make any suggestions for how to deal with it. You just have to keep at it and get used to it. One big advantage of using VR on a computer over using a Dictaphone is that you can do a stream of thought thing and then use your computer to edit and copy and paste things around so that it makes sense. Doing that is a lot easier than trying to dictate something in a mostly finished form for a secretary to transcribe. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (3rd, 4th, and 5th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From jay at kreibi.ch Wed Feb 21 13:17:08 2007 From: jay at kreibi.ch (Jay A. Kreibich) Date: Wed Feb 21 13:17:19 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <20070221211708.GA24218@uiuc.edu> On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 08:55:28AM -0800, Regina Sadono scratched on the wall: > One more thing, while I'm at it.... I have been a writer for all of my life > and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating > words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded through the > activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very > specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this > process orally. Speaking is a completely different neurological process and > puts me in a completely different place where I can't "compose." This is a very good point that-- I suspect-- surprises a lot of people that are new to continuous voice recognition systems. I'd even take it one further than you have and say that the skills of "speaking"-- such as talking on the phone, giving a presentation, or just general articulation in a conversation-- are much much different than the skill involved in "dictation", which is really what current continuous voice recognition systems are all about. I played around with ViaVoice "back when" and was amazed at how poorly it fit my writing style. Not accuracy, but things like "You mean I actually have to SAY 'period' and 'comma'!??" Stuff like that slips while typing without conscious thought. Like Regina, I too "hear voices" in my head while I write, but those voices don't SAY "comma"-- the sub-conscious part of my brain that takes a thought and "outputs typing" just understands where to insert all the non-spoken parts of the written language as the thoughts I'm trying to express stream through my head. While I'm sure I could eventually learn the skill of dictation, it is definitely a distinct, learned skill. My experiences with ViaVoice gave me new respect for a few of the old-school lawyers I've worked with that still do all their formal writing via (human) dictation. Before playing around with ViaVoice I used to always think "Why don't you just learn to type?!?" In a few cases, I was really confused because I knew the person in question could, in fact, type fairly well as evident by their email and other on-line communication, but still did most formal writing (such as client letters or legal summaries) via dictation. After my own attempts at dictation I realized what a unique skill it is, and have come to appreciate that if that's the way you learned to "write," changing that method-- even to something as "simple" as a keyboard-- can be extremely difficult. It screws with the "writing" (authoring?) process. While I appreciate the need for accurate and specific dictation (and think that today's systems to a fair job of delivering that, even if only in a constructed environment), opening speech systems up to a more general market-- and challenging the keyboard in a serious way-- will require a lot of language awareness and a great deal of "do what I mean" analysis. Basically on-the-fly built-in grammar checking and such that converts "the spoken word" into "the written word" with a full awareness of the numerous non-spoken elements of the written language (of course, they aren't truly non-spoken, they just aren't words). In effect, something you could hook up to your TV to get a correctly written transcript (accuracy and learning aside). People just don't deal well with specialized input skills. Consider the simple keyboard. Despite it's ubiquitous placement and fairly simple operation, less than 20% of IT professionals can actually touch-type (and that number is even lower for general computer users). People aren't willing to develop specific skills to improve their usage. Dictation style input is a keyboard with no letters on the keys. It doesn't slow down someone with the skill to use the instrument "correctly," but that's actually very few people. Printing letters on the keys of a keyboard provide a bridge for those that can't use the device correctly, but only need to use it "good enough." A "for the people" speech system needs to do the same, because right now developing the skills to efficiently use a speech recognition system-- from microphone placement to how one thinks and constructs thoughts while dictating-- are highly unique and represent a huge barrier that requires a great deal of motivation to overcome; it is not unlike moving from a QWERTY to Dvorak keyboard. In the current market, it seems that main motivation to use voice software is something of the form of "because I have no other choice." That's an extremely poor position from which to motivate your market. -j -- Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y @ K R E I B I.C H > "'People who live in bamboo houses should not throw pandas.' Jesus said that." - "The Ninja", www.AskANinja.com, "Special Delivery 10: Pop!Tech 2006" From ahdfox at mac.com Wed Feb 21 13:52:18 2007 From: ahdfox at mac.com (Damien Fox) Date: Wed Feb 21 13:52:38 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C302A0A-9207-402B-90D0-F9F4405A1C43@mac.com> no problems with DNS8 on a MacBook 2.0ghz core2duo, 1gb ram. I have bootcamp going with WinXP SP2, and an andrea7100 headset. watch the headsets, tho' cause the MacBook internal power supply causes buzzing with some headsets when plugged in to the charger... notably an otherwise really nice plantronics DSP 400 i bought and can't get to work :-( good luck, but its worth the extra time + money. -damien On 21-Feb-07, at 11:55 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > Dear All, > > I have CTS in both hands and need to incorporate voice recognition > into my > computer use. Several years ago I bought iListen just to > experiment with > voice recognition and I tried for days to train it, even starting over > several times, and never reached anything even remotely approaching an > acceptable accuracy rate. Last summer, after the CTS diagnosis, I > tried > again, still with poor results. I was thinking about getting the > newer > version, but most of the reviews on Amazon described exactly the > same kind > of frustrating situation I had experienced with the older version. > > At the same time was given DNS on my PC at work and almost fell > over when I > found how easy it was to train and use with a very high accuracy > rate almost > immediately. I am a fundraiser and have to do a lot of different > kinds of > writing using fairly technical language. Since I have a MacBook > with Intel I > started looking into setting my home computer up so I could use > DNS. (I'm a > Mac person through and through!) > > However, when I researched this I heard that there are bugs, and I > am just > not computer savvy. Plus I heard that running Windows on my Mac > would make > me vulnerable to all the virulent computer viruses out there. > Since there > are so many experienced people on this list, I would like to find > out if > either of these things are really true. > > Also, what would I do exactly? Install Parallels, then Windows XP, > then DNS? > I also heard that Windows XP runs better with Boot Camp for some > reason -- I > think having to do with how much resources it uses up for your > computer to > run both systems at the same time. What is the difference between > Parallels > and Bootcamp? Are there any voice recognition products in the > works for the > Mac that are commensurate with DNS? > > One more thing, while I'm at it.... I have been a writer for all of > my life > and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating > words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded > through the > activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very > specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this > process orally. Speaking is a completely different neurological > process and > puts me in a completely different place where I can't "compose." In > fact > speaking seems to interrupt my writing process just like throwing > stones > into a pond disturbs the water. I'm sure others have gone through > this to > rewire their writing mechanism for voice recognition and I would be > very > interested if someone could write out the steps they went through > or point > me to a place where someone has outlined these steps. > > Thanks everyone for all of your help! > > Warm regards, > > Regina > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From richards at spawar.navy.mil Wed Feb 21 16:19:11 2007 From: richards at spawar.navy.mil (John F. Richardson) Date: Wed Feb 21 16:18:19 2007 Subject: [MV] Continuous Speech and Mac OSX Math library and Accelerate.framework Feature Requests In-Reply-To: References: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <016a01c75617$14694bb0$3a643180@doc> Hello, There was a recent call for feature requests from the apple staff related to the Math library and Accelerate.framwork. The call appeared on the Scitech list. I put in a feature request for enhanced continuous speech support. However, I'm not an expert, so I'll mention the request and if there are errors I'll correct them. Also, technical references for any issue on continuous speech algorithms for inclusion in OSX to help the apple staff would be nice. (sort of like the ACM number for it's official HMM algorithm,...) 1) I requested Hidden Markov Model support in the math library and / or Accelerate.framework. I figured that this would help speech coders and also might help the general statistics support in 0SX. 2) I also suggested that Apple integrate the core engine of one of the mainstream speech recognition engines into the OS. I use iListen occasionally for research and human factors so I suggested the Phillips engine a little more strongly than other engines. So, if people in the know, have a particular statistics algorithm other than HMM that would be a "killer alg(gorithm)" for the SciTech and Speech community, I suggest that you file a feature request. I can also add it to my request. Just an FYI. The list has been jumping lately,(COMMA) and the call appeared, (COMMA)and the motivation was palpable.(DOT).(DOT).(DOT) John F. Richardson From drjlevi at netonecom.net Wed Feb 21 17:40:00 2007 From: drjlevi at netonecom.net (Jonathan Levi, M.D.) Date: Wed Feb 21 17:57:19 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:55 AM -0800 2/21/07, Regina Sadono wrote: >.... I have been a writer for all of my life >and find that it's a very specific process that starts with creating >words/sounds in the quiet of my mind and then these get recorded through the >activity of my hands either by writing or typing. Writing is a very >specific neurological process and I have not been able to access this >process orally I, on the other hand, find it much easier to dictate into voice-recognition software than to type. Perhaps it's because I type so much more slowly than I think :-). And yes, I'm still adding words and macros to my custom vocabularies and have been doing so since 2003 (I'm a physician and most of my added words are "medicalese"). Incidentally, I'm one of what's probably a very small number of Mac-dictators still using IBM ViaVoice, and thank this list for a few critical pointers making the continued use possible. (However, Chuck, I've finally ordered iListen--perhaps this thorn in your side is going to be removed at last!) So if you think you might be tempted to try voice-recognition software a little longer, resolve to be very patient, and you may find the results surprisingly rewarding. --Jonathan From dkw at umich.edu Wed Feb 21 19:07:27 2007 From: dkw at umich.edu (David K. Wehe) Date: Wed Feb 21 19:07:33 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Incidentally, I'm one of what's probably a very small number of >Mac-dictators still using IBM ViaVoice, and thank this list for a >few critical pointers making the continued use possible. Amazing! I find ViaVoice almost unusable now. I can push repeatedly on the F8 key and only if the moon happens to be full do I get ViaVoice to actually work. I can reboot and get it to work for awhile, but it dies off after a few hours. Something grabs the microphone away. Yoda, what is your secret? David. From tscheresky at micron.com Wed Feb 21 19:48:28 2007 From: tscheresky at micron.com (tscheresky@micron.com) Date: Wed Feb 21 19:48:38 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu><46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> Message-ID: I love the Mac. I have supported iListen from the beginning. I have the latest version of iListen, and I will continue to upgrade it as long as it remains the best voice-recognition product for the Macintosh. With that said, I have to be honest. I'm a high-level quadriplegic with no use of my arms. I'm employed as a software engineer for a company that is primarily a Windows shop. I use Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional ( DNS Pro ) 9 all day long at work. The only time I touch my keyboard is when I log into my workstation. Because of off hours support, I have windows and DNS Pro at home. I used to have a PC at home. But then I got a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro at home. I installed Parallels on my Mac, and then Windows XP and DNS Pro 9 On Parallels. It worked so well I got rid of the PC. Personally I would never let Windows take over my Mac by running boot camp. With parallels if I need to get my Mac, I simply minimize Parallels Desktop. With boot camp you have to reboot to get to the Mac, and then reboot to go back to Windows. Big waste of time if you ask me. So in closing I say, come on MacSpeech. Even though dictation works good in iListen, I'm one of those people that needs more. I need the ability to use iListen hands-free. I can't wait for the day I can get rid of Windows. Come on MacSpeech make it happen. Thanks... Todd From mail at thestoryfoundry.com Wed Feb 21 20:31:29 2007 From: mail at thestoryfoundry.com (Rena Bussinger) Date: Wed Feb 21 20:51:47 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice recognition for transcription: Opinions sought Message-ID: I am a Mac user and completely new to voice recognition software on any platform. I do a lot of transcription of voice recordings, and am interested in experimenting with using software to help minimize my workload. I understand that the software must be trained to recognize a speaker's unique voice and that ongoing training of the software is necessary to improve the accuracy of the translation over time. Here's what I'm wondering: How involved is the initial training process? I am producing my voice recordings from personal history interviews with subjects who are active and willing participants. Would it be feasible to create a speaker profile for each of my interview subjects, have them go through the initial voice training process (on my laptop) and then playback their recorded audio with iListen or DNS/Parallels active? If anyone has any experience using either program for a similar purpose or to transcribe your own voice memos/speeches/performances/etc. I'd be very interested in the details of your process and how successful it is. My transcriptions are primarily for reference/editing purposes so complete accuracy is not as important as just having a rough text version of the audio that I then edit extensively anyway. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Rena Bussinger The Story Foundry We Make History. (Yours.) http://www.thestoryfoundry.com 206.349.8391 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/macvoice/attachments/20070221/60027891/attachment.html From ian at iangilman.com Wed Feb 21 20:52:52 2007 From: ian at iangilman.com (Ian Gilman) Date: Wed Feb 21 20:53:09 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2818BE17-55C9-419C-9146-11ABC630D567@iangilman.com> I used to have trouble getting ViaVoice to launch, but I've found a workaround through much trial and error. It's simply this: open your System Preferences to the Audio panel and select Input. Then start ViaVoice. Works every time for me. Strange but true. -- Ian Gilman -- digital renaissance man -- www.iangilman.com -- 415-706-8447 On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:07 PM, David K. Wehe wrote: >> Incidentally, I'm one of what's probably a very small number of >> Mac-dictators still using IBM ViaVoice, and thank this list for a >> few critical pointers making the continued use possible. > > Amazing! I find ViaVoice almost unusable now. I can push > repeatedly on the F8 key and only if the moon happens to be full do > I get ViaVoice to actually work. I can reboot and get it to work > for awhile, but it dies off after a few hours. Something grabs the > microphone away. > > Yoda, what is your secret? > > David. > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > From ian at iangilman.com Wed Feb 21 20:53:55 2007 From: ian at iangilman.com (Ian Gilman) Date: Wed Feb 21 20:53:58 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu><46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> Message-ID: <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> I second that! I need to use my computer hands-free as well, which is why I've been hesitant to move to iListen. One of the big things that turns me off is not being able to mix command & control with dictation without explicitly switching modes. -- Ian Gilman -- digital renaissance man -- www.iangilman.com -- 415-706-8447 On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:48 PM, tscheresky@micron.com wrote: > I love the Mac. I have supported iListen from the beginning. I have > the latest version of iListen, and I will continue to upgrade it as > long > as it remains the best voice-recognition product for the Macintosh. > With that said, I have to be honest. > > I'm a high-level quadriplegic with no use of my arms. I'm employed > as a > software engineer for a company that is primarily a Windows shop. > I use > Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional ( DNS Pro ) 9 all day long at > work. The only time I touch my keyboard is when I log into my > workstation. > > Because of off hours support, I have windows and DNS Pro at home. I > used to have a PC at home. But then I got a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro at home. > I installed Parallels on my Mac, and then Windows XP and DNS Pro 9 On > Parallels. It worked so well I got rid of the PC. Personally I would > never let Windows take over my Mac by running boot camp. With > parallels > if I need to get my Mac, I simply minimize Parallels Desktop. With > boot > camp you have to reboot to get to the Mac, and then reboot to go > back to > Windows. Big waste of time if you ask me. > > So in closing I say, come on MacSpeech. Even though dictation works > good in iListen, I'm one of those people that needs more. I need the > ability to use iListen hands-free. I can't wait for the day I can get > rid of Windows. Come on MacSpeech make it happen. Thanks... > > Todd > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > From dkw at umich.edu Wed Feb 21 21:13:55 2007 From: dkw at umich.edu (David Wehe) Date: Wed Feb 21 21:15:13 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: <2818BE17-55C9-419C-9146-11ABC630D567@iangilman.com> References: <2818BE17-55C9-419C-9146-11ABC630D567@iangilman.com> Message-ID: On Feb 21, 2007, at 11:52 PM, Ian Gilman wrote: > I used to have trouble getting ViaVoice to launch, but I've found a > workaround through much trial and error. It's simply this: open > your System Preferences to the Audio panel and select Input. Then > start ViaVoice. Works every time for me. Strange but true. > > -- Ian Gilman-- digital renaissance man > -- www.iangilman.com-- 415-706-8447 > Doesn't the program VV quit working on you during the day? Then you can't get it to quit without restarting your machine and performing that workaround again. That's my problem with V V. If it would stay working, I'd keep using it. David. From ian at iangilman.com Wed Feb 21 21:21:53 2007 From: ian at iangilman.com (Ian Gilman) Date: Wed Feb 21 21:22:06 2007 Subject: [MV] comfortable microphone? In-Reply-To: <20070221211708.GA24218@uiuc.edu> References: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <20070221211708.GA24218@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I'm using a Telex H-831, and I'm relatively happy with it, but I find that after a couple of hours the constant pressure on the side of my head gives me a headache. I've used a number of other microphones, and they all basically have the same problem: They have to squeeze your head in order to stay on. On the other hand, I don't want a desk mic; I value my freedom of motion and the ability to listen to music without interfering with my voice recognition. Any recommendations for a comfortable headset mic? Thank you, -- Ian Gilman -- digital renaissance man -- www.iangilman.com -- 415-706-8447 From drjlevi at netonecom.net Wed Feb 21 21:36:35 2007 From: drjlevi at netonecom.net (Jonathan Levi, M.D.) Date: Wed Feb 21 21:38:09 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:07 PM -0500 2/21/07, David K. Wehe wrote: >> Incidentally, I'm one of what's probably a very small number of >>Mac-dictators still using IBM ViaVoice, and thank this list for a >>few critical pointers making the continued use possible. > >Amazing! I find ViaVoice almost unusable now. I can push >repeatedly on the F8 key and only if the moon happens to be full do >I get ViaVoice to actually work. I can reboot and get it to work >for awhile, but it dies off after a few hours. Something grabs the >microphone away. The short answer is certainly, I dunno. F8 has been a lifesaver for me, and I got it from some kindly soul on this list. However, here are a couple of thoughts: 1. What OS X are you using. I switched bback from 10.4.8 to 10.4.6, mainly because of other problems involving Classic apps. But I seem to remember more problems with ViaVoice with each OS upgrade. I'm guessing that ViaVoice will finally die with OS X 10.5. 2. In at least one situation, it seems to help to take a little bit more time than would otherwise be necessary. That's when I do Manage My Vocabulary, training a new word that I've just added. When I push the radio button at the right, to record a new pronunciation, it helps if I wait 1/4 - 1/2 sec before I dictate the pronunciation. If I don't, I'm much more likely to get the "This Microphone Is Been Used Exclusively By Another Application" message. HTH, Jonathan From bill501 at mindspring.com Thu Feb 22 05:52:51 2007 From: bill501 at mindspring.com (Bill) Date: Thu Feb 22 05:53:12 2007 Subject: [MV] comfortable microphone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <20070221211708.GA24218@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: I've been lurking here for a bit before even buying any voice recog software, but this question I can help answer. I use a head mic with Skype with a MacBook Pro. The built-in Mic is too close to the speakers and causes echoes at the other end... I too found the headset mics uncomfortable and basically took one such (forget which) and attached it to a pair of very comfortable stereo headphones (Bose) which I use to listen to music. Perhaps you could use this solution. Bill At 9:21 PM -0800 2/21/07, Ian Gilman wrote: >I'm using a Telex H-831, and I'm relatively happy with it, but I >find that after a couple of hours the constant pressure on the side >of my head gives me a headache. I've used a number of other >microphones, and they all basically have the same problem: They have >to squeeze your head in order to stay on. On the other hand, I >don't want a desk mic; I value my freedom of motion and the ability >to listen to music without interfering with my voice recognition. > >Any recommendations for a comfortable headset mic? -- _____________________________ Bill Blank http://kernunnos.com (Celtic studies and numismatics) OBOD's Message board: http://www.druidry.org/board From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Thu Feb 22 06:25:01 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Thu Feb 22 06:25:21 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu><46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> Message-ID: <04252B28-A5A2-4C5B-AFD3-D46822383EFB@macspeech.com> Ian (and everyone else): iListen has always had a shortcut for issuing a command. You say "One Shot Command" followed by the command you want it to execute. After executing the command, iListen immediately returns to dictation mode. Very handy. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Feb 21, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Ian Gilman wrote: > I second that! I need to use my computer hands-free as well, which > is why I've been hesitant to move to iListen. One of the big things > that turns me off is not being able to mix command & control with > dictation without explicitly switching modes. > > -- Ian Gilman-- digital renaissance man > -- www.iangilman.com-- 415-706-8447 > > On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:48 PM, tscheresky@micron.com wrote: > >> I love the Mac. I have supported iListen from the beginning. I have >> the latest version of iListen, and I will continue to upgrade it >> as long >> as it remains the best voice-recognition product for the Macintosh. >> With that said, I have to be honest. >> >> I'm a high-level quadriplegic with no use of my arms. I'm >> employed as a >> software engineer for a company that is primarily a Windows shop. >> I use >> Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional ( DNS Pro ) 9 all day long at >> work. The only time I touch my keyboard is when I log into my >> workstation. >> >> Because of off hours support, I have windows and DNS Pro at home. I >> used to have a PC at home. But then I got a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro at >> home. >> I installed Parallels on my Mac, and then Windows XP and DNS Pro 9 On >> Parallels. It worked so well I got rid of the PC. Personally I >> would >> never let Windows take over my Mac by running boot camp. With >> parallels >> if I need to get my Mac, I simply minimize Parallels Desktop. >> With boot >> camp you have to reboot to get to the Mac, and then reboot to go >> back to >> Windows. Big waste of time if you ask me. >> >> So in closing I say, come on MacSpeech. Even though dictation works >> good in iListen, I'm one of those people that needs more. I need the >> ability to use iListen hands-free. I can't wait for the day I can >> get >> rid of Windows. Come on MacSpeech make it happen. Thanks... >> >> Todd >> _______________________________________________ >> MacVoice mailing list >> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >> >> Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random >> stuff: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Thu Feb 22 06:29:27 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Thu Feb 22 06:31:06 2007 Subject: [MV] comfortable microphone? In-Reply-To: References: <20070221051225.7295993F4B4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <20070221211708.GA24218@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Ian (and everyone else): The VXi TalkPro Xpress is an extremely comfortable and accurate head- worn microphone. If you are interested in stereo, its cousin, the TalkPro 200 USB does a great job. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Feb 21, 2007, at 11:21 PM, Ian Gilman wrote: > I'm using a Telex H-831, and I'm relatively happy with it, but I > find that after a couple of hours the constant pressure on the side > of my head gives me a headache. I've used a number of other > microphones, and they all basically have the same problem: They > have to squeeze your head in order to stay on. On the other hand, > I don't want a desk mic; I value my freedom of motion and the > ability to listen to music without interfering with my voice > recognition. > > Any recommendations for a comfortable headset mic? > > Thank you, > > -- Ian Gilman-- digital renaissance man > -- www.iangilman.com-- 415-706-8447 > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Thu Feb 22 06:33:36 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Thu Feb 22 06:36:00 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice recognition for transcription: Opinions sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02E0F29F-37C0-4C1E-956A-7BED40D30B0E@macspeech.com> Rena (and everyone else): Simply put, no speech recognition can do what you ask, and it will probably be many years before computers have the processing power necessary to do so. The problem will be that the speaker is not speaking his or her punctuation, and not speaking in an environment with a consistent noise level, nor will they be using a noise- canceling microphone that is in a consistent position in relation to their mouth. All of these factors will introduce enough inaccuracy in the transcribed text to make it not worth the effort. We have many people using our transcription solution and what they do is re-speak the audio in their own voice, inserting punctuation as they go. This produces much more reliable transcription and still saves about 30% of what it would take to type in the text manually. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Feb 21, 2007, at 10:31 PM, Rena Bussinger wrote: > I am a Mac user and completely new to voice recognition software on > any platform. I do a lot of transcription of voice recordings, and > am interested in experimenting with using software to help minimize > my workload. I understand that the software must be trained to > recognize a speaker's unique voice and that ongoing training of the > software is necessary to improve the accuracy of the translation > over time. > > Here's what I'm wondering: How involved is the initial training > process? I am producing my voice recordings from personal history > interviews with subjects who are active and willing participants. > Would it be feasible to create a speaker profile for each of my > interview subjects, have them go through the initial voice training > process (on my laptop) and then playback their recorded audio with > iListen or DNS/Parallels active? If anyone has any experience using > either program for a similar purpose or to transcribe your own > voice memos/speeches/performances/etc. I'd be very interested in > the details of your process and how successful it is. My > transcriptions are primarily for reference/editing purposes so > complete accuracy is not as important as just having a rough text > version of the audio that I then edit extensively anyway. > > Any feedback is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Rena Bussinger > > The Story Foundry > We Make History. (Yours.) > http://www.thestoryfoundry.com > 206.349.8391 > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From tscheresky at micron.com Thu Feb 22 06:49:36 2007 From: tscheresky at micron.com (tscheresky@micron.com) Date: Thu Feb 22 06:50:29 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> Message-ID: > One of the big things that turns me off is not being able to mix > command & control with dictation without explicitly switching modes. In this regard DNS is no better than iListen. In DNS if you want to speak a command while in dictation mode you better make a significant pause, or your command will be recognized as dictated text. Todd -----Original Message----- From: macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com [mailto:macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] On Behalf Of Ian Gilman Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:54 PM To: A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh. Subject: Re: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels I second that! I need to use my computer hands-free as well, which is why I've been hesitant to move to iListen. One of the big things that turns me off is not being able to mix command & control with dictation without explicitly switching modes. -- Ian Gilman -- digital renaissance man -- www.iangilman.com -- 415-706-8447 On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:48 PM, tscheresky@micron.com wrote: > I love the Mac. I have supported iListen from the beginning. I have > the latest version of iListen, and I will continue to upgrade it as > long as it remains the best voice-recognition product for the > Macintosh. > With that said, I have to be honest. > > I'm a high-level quadriplegic with no use of my arms. I'm employed as > a > software engineer for a company that is primarily a Windows shop. > I use > Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional ( DNS Pro ) 9 all day long at > work. The only time I touch my keyboard is when I log into my > workstation. > > Because of off hours support, I have windows and DNS Pro at home. I > used to have a PC at home. But then I got a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro at home. > I installed Parallels on my Mac, and then Windows XP and DNS Pro 9 On > Parallels. It worked so well I got rid of the PC. Personally I would > never let Windows take over my Mac by running boot camp. With > parallels if I need to get my Mac, I simply minimize Parallels > Desktop. With boot camp you have to reboot to get to the Mac, and > then reboot to go back to Windows. Big waste of time if you ask me. > > So in closing I say, come on MacSpeech. Even though dictation works > good in iListen, I'm one of those people that needs more. I need the > ability to use iListen hands-free. I can't wait for the day I can get > rid of Windows. Come on MacSpeech make it happen. Thanks... > > Todd > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > > Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random > stuff: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 > > _______________________________________________ MacVoice mailing list MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice Listmom is trying to clean out his closets! Vintage Mac and random stuff: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmacguy1984 From drjlevi at netonecom.net Thu Feb 22 06:20:33 2007 From: drjlevi at netonecom.net (Jonathan Levi, M.D.) Date: Thu Feb 22 07:04:04 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice recognition for transcription: Opinions sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:31 PM -0800 2/21/07, Rena Bussinger wrote: >How involved is the initial training process? I am producing my >voice recordings from personal history interviews with subjects who >are active and willing participants. Would it be feasible to create >a speaker profile for each of my interview subjects, have them go >through the initial voice training process (on my laptop) and then >playback their recorded audio with iListen or DNS/Parallels active? I'm afraid it doesn't sound practical. It will probably take each interviewee an unacceptably long time to train his/her own voice model; plus, in the early stages of use, there will probably be a lot of transcription errors for each user. Training a voice model is only worth the time and effort if it's going to be used for a long time afterwards, IMO. --Jonathan From drjlevi at netonecom.net Thu Feb 22 07:03:59 2007 From: drjlevi at netonecom.net (Jonathan Levi, M.D.) Date: Thu Feb 22 07:04:09 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: <2818BE17-55C9-419C-9146-11ABC630D567@iangilman.com> Message-ID: At 12:13 AM -0500 2/22/07, David Wehe wrote: >On Feb 21, 2007, at 11:52 PM, Ian Gilman wrote: > >>I used to have trouble getting ViaVoice to launch, but I've found a >>workaround through much trial and error. It's simply this: open >>your System Preferences to the Audio panel and select Input. Then >>start ViaVoice. Works every time for me. Strange but true. >> >>-- Ian Gilman-- digital renaissance man >>-- www.iangilman.com-- 415-706-8447 >> > >Doesn't the program VV quit working on you during the day? Then you >can't get it to quit without restarting your machine and performing >that workaround again. That's my problem with V V. If it would >stay working, I'd keep using it. I have no experience with Automator, but I wonder if the series of actions Ian described could be automated, then accomplished with a keystroke or two. (It could certainly be done with AppleScript; sadly I haven't the time I would need to create such a script myself.) --Jonathan From JSenecal at aol.com Fri Feb 23 09:35:13 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Fri Feb 23 09:35:51 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu><46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> <685C8FC4-4ED6-431A-B9FF-E1D5370257BA@iangilman.com> Message-ID: <76EB16EB-4DCD-4D6F-9DF6-4AD4841587B4@aol.com> On Feb 21, 2007, at 8:53 PM, Ian Gilman wrote: > I second that! I need to use my computer hands-free as well, which > is why I've been hesitant to move to iListen. One of the big things > that turns me off is not being able to mix command & control with > dictation without explicitly switching modes. Having all commands available at all times could cause problems where dictation is recognized as commands. However, if there are just a few commands that you would like to use during dictation, put them in the "Dictation Text Macros" set. These commands are active in both dictation and command modes. You will need to quit and relaunch iListen for these commands to be active. This is better than putting them in the "Dictation Macros" set because updates to iListen do not change the Dictation Text Macros. Joe Senecal From JSenecal at aol.com Fri Feb 23 09:49:51 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Fri Feb 23 09:50:03 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on MacBookPro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > In the very old ViaVoice ... I am able to do the following: > > 1 - type any text I want ( in this case it could be the correct > spelling > and capitalization of your own name) > 2 - assign a special sound to that text ( in your case maybe not > say your > actual name - since it does not seem to understand it - and use > some other > gibberish words like: tata toozy - I know it's very silly) > > 3 - then save all that - And every time you say the gibberish word > ' tata > toozy ' - it will spell the assign text out perfectly > > Q: Is something like this possible to do with iListen? A: Yes, but you need to come up with a phonetic spelling of the gibberish words. Power Secretary could learn any nonsense sound and wasn't limited to phonemes. The steps for iListen are: 1- say the gibberish word or phrase 2- Correct it to what you want typed 3- Select your correction in the correction window* 4- Switch to "What You Say"* 5- Correct the case of what's entered in "What you see" 6- Type the gibberish word or phrase in "What you say" 7- Press "Create Phonetic" 8- Examine the Phonetic Description to see if it looks right. It might be spelling all or part of your gibberish. If needed you may need to edit the Phonetic Description. I do this by typing words that have the sounds I want into What you say and deleting the extra phonemes. 9- Press Add Word Because you need to use phonetic descriptions doing this with iListen isn't as powerful of a feature as with other programs. Nor is there any way to remove an added word though you can add the word again with a different Phonetic Description. Joe From JSenecal at aol.com Fri Feb 23 10:21:45 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Fri Feb 23 10:22:05 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75D925B4-C761-4F62-BD9A-994AE3B3999B@aol.com> On Feb 21, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Regina Sadono wrote: > At the same time was given DNS on my PC at work and almost fell > over when I > found how easy it was to train and use with a very high accuracy > rate almost > immediately. I am a fundraiser and have to do a lot of different > kinds of > writing using fairly technical language. Since I have a MacBook > with Intel I > started looking into setting my home computer up so I could use > DNS. (I'm a > Mac person through and through!) Which brings up a good point. Different programs can all be good and accurate, but vary widely in how well they work for a specific person based on how well that person matches the standard voice template used by that program. Also programs improve over time from both improvements in code and improvements in available processing power. If you can afford it, the way to get the best recognition accuracy is to get every program that could work for you and try them all. It used to be that there were a lot of options, but it seems to have been reduced to a single program per platform. In my case I'm editing documents on the Mac (programs actually), so control is at least as important as accuracy. So for me DNS isn't a consideration. Joe Senecal From JSenecal at aol.com Fri Feb 23 10:21:55 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Fri Feb 23 10:22:20 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice Recognition Issues In-Reply-To: <99853D05-ED00-4A30-B023-5A438646649E@macattorney.com> References: <99853D05-ED00-4A30-B023-5A438646649E@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <9DC85FE8-3525-472E-A28A-8E4650E24885@aol.com> On Feb 21, 2007, at 11:25 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: >> Plus I heard that running Windows on my Mac would make >> me vulnerable to all the virulent computer viruses out there. >> Since there >> are so many experienced people on this list, I would like to find >> out if >> either of these things are really true. > > It's true that running Windows on your Mac opens you up to being > infected by just about all of the malware that exists for Windows, > but it is fairly easy to avoid this problem. There are two main > vectors for infection under Windows: the Internet and sharing > software with others. So, if you refrain from using Windows to > access the Internet (and this should be easy as OS X can do > whatever you want to on the Internet) and if you don't share > software, you should be fine. > > There are some very nice, free, effective, anti-virus programs for > Windows that you can install also. Let me know if you need a > recommendation. > > Note that there are no known cases (at least that I know of ) of a > Windows infection on your Windows partition damaging your data on > your Mac partition. So if worse comes to worse, you can wipe your > Windows partition and start over. This shouldn't be a big deal if > you are only using Windows for a couple of mission critical > applications. Some additional notes for added safety. If you don't need internet access on Windows, disable it completely either in Parallels or in Windows itself. If your windows isn't listening to the internet, it's safe even from direct attacks. For even more safety, set it up so that the Mac can see your windows data but Windows can't see your Mac data. That way even if some malware attempts to wipe your Windows drive, your Mac data will be safe. A shared folder is fine (that's how I move files between them on my systems), but anything in the shared folder can be erased by Windows. Joe Senecal From JSenecal at aol.com Fri Feb 23 10:22:51 2007 From: JSenecal at aol.com (Joseph Senecal) Date: Fri Feb 23 10:23:08 2007 Subject: [MV] DNS on Mac on Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <45DBD285.4010706@umdnj.edu><46AD1469-8D19-4ED3-8B94-87AA4CBA798B@bellsouth.net> <45DBF6C6.201@umdnj.edu> Message-ID: On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:48 PM, tscheresky@micron.com wrote: > I'm a high-level quadriplegic with no use of my arms. I'm employed > as a > software engineer for a company that is primarily a Windows shop. > I use > Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional ( DNS Pro ) 9 all day long at > work. The only time I touch my keyboard is when I log into my > workstation. Someone else who dictates programs :-) Though I have to admit that I use dictation software because it's fun rather than because I have to. When I'm in a hurry I reach for the keyboard. When I'm not, I might use dictation software to help avoid getting carpel tunnel syndrome down the line. > So in closing I say, come on MacSpeech. Even though dictation works > good in iListen, I'm one of those people that needs more. I need the > ability to use iListen hands-free. I can't wait for the day I can get > rid of Windows. Come on MacSpeech make it happen. Thanks... I'm able to use iListen hands free with two exceptions: 1) Pressing Enter after committing corrections 2) Entering new macros I could get rid of problem 1 by changing my preferences to automatically accept corrections instead of putting up a dialog. I don't do so because sometimes (rarely) I do want to ignore corrections. Dictation works somewhat to enter new macros, but correction hasn't worked well within iListen itself, so I usually don't try anymore. I did have to add many new commands to the correction and spelling command sets to make them useable by voice command instead of tediously repeating the same command over and over to navigate. Joe Senecal From jay at kreibi.ch Fri Feb 23 22:43:45 2007 From: jay at kreibi.ch (Jay A. Kreibich) Date: Fri Feb 23 22:43:52 2007 Subject: [MV] Voice recognition for transcription: Opinions sought In-Reply-To: <02E0F29F-37C0-4C1E-956A-7BED40D30B0E@macspeech.com> References: <02E0F29F-37C0-4C1E-956A-7BED40D30B0E@macspeech.com> Message-ID: <20070224064345.GA5118@uiuc.edu> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 08:33:36AM -0600, Chuck Rogers scratched on the wall: > Rena (and everyone else): > > Simply put, no speech recognition can do what you ask, and it will > probably be many years before computers have the processing power > necessary to do so. That's true, but one might make a strong argument that this is true of all of today's dictation style system. The need for per-user training and near perfect microphone placement all points to this being a technology that isn't really ready for the masses. It's interesting research, but for someone like me who is able to use a keyboard quite well, it is nothing more than a toy... and one I gave up on fairly quickly, at that. Even if the benchmark is a human trained in dictation-- as opposed to someone such as a Court Recorder trained in stenography (and essentially does do on-the-fly transcriptions)-- modern software still isn't up to the task. In the case of my post, I'm well aware that what I proposed and envision as the ideal solution is far beyond current systems. Long term goals usually are. > The problem will be that the speaker is not > speaking his or her punctuation, Yes, they are, they just aren't using words. Oral languages came first. All the "extra" bits in the written language are there to fill the expression gap that the oral language carries in pauses, speed changes, pitch bends, and a number of other nuances. Those "extra marks" wouldn't be in the written language if the concepts they're attempting to express weren't in the oral language first. Saying punctuation isn't spoken is like saying every mark on a musical score that doesn't happen to be a note isn't "played." > and not speaking in an environment > with a consistent noise level, nor will they be using a noise- > canceling microphone that is in a consistent position in relation to > their mouth. Again, true, but the human ear and auditory processing systems are extremely good at dealing with this. A typical non-technical customer doesn't care about the fact that we don't really understand why the human auditory system is so amazingly good at isolating and tracking a single voice in a noisy environment. All they know is that it is really easy for them to do, so that is the expectation. Once more, I would say this is an example of why the technology is not ready for main-stream mass use. The fact that computers can't overcome these issues means the technology is lacking, not that consumers should re-adjust their expectations. Nature has shown us all in a very personal way that this is possible. I know it's extremely hard. Good things usually are. > All of these factors will introduce enough inaccuracy in > the transcribed text to make it not worth the effort. Exactly. So unless you're willing to learn the new and non-trivial skill of dictation and are able/willing to setup an environment in which that works, current voice recognition systems are a bust. Don't get me wrong-- I love the fact this technology is on the market and available those that need it. While I think this type of technology has a long way to go, I also think it is "good enough" to justify being on the market, having people pay money for it, and for research and development to continue. If you have no other choice, even the existing systems are a god-send. But I'll stand by the idea that, for the general consumer market, voice recognition in it's current state is a "no other choice" type thing. Building a market based off "no other choice" is an extremely poor position to work from. > We have many people using our transcription solution and what they do > is re-speak the audio in their own voice, inserting punctuation as > they go. This produces much more reliable transcription and still > saves about 30% of what it would take to type in the text manually. You must type very slowly. In my experience this method actually took longer, in all but the most informal or short writings. It is extremely difficult to go back though several pages of text that contain no punctuation what-so-ever and figure out something even as simple as where all the periods and commas go. You more or less re-create the whole authoring process to understand the flows and blocking of the thoughts as they were put into words. And once all that is done, all you have is a rough draft that still needs all the required editing and revising any other draft would require. This is actually why I first got into speech recognition systems. It wasn't worth it. I'm glad others have had better luck, as I'm happy to see the technology continue to evolve and improve-- and there is a lot of room for improvement. -j -- Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y @ K R E I B I.C H > "'People who live in bamboo houses should not throw pandas.' Jesus said that." - "The Ninja", www.AskANinja.com, "Special Delivery 10: Pop!Tech 2006"