From richards at spawar.navy.mil Mon Nov 5 15:30:22 2007 From: richards at spawar.navy.mil (John F. Richardson) Date: Mon Nov 5 15:30:36 2007 Subject: [MV] Plaintalk accuracy statistics In-Reply-To: <5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com> References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com> <5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com> Message-ID: <015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> Hello, What is the Plaintalk accuracy for speakable items? What is the Plaintalk accuracy for GUI scripting? Have there been any Apple technical reports on the subject? Have there been any open literature studies of Plaintalk? John F. Richardson From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Mon Nov 5 23:39:14 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Tue Nov 6 01:09:40 2007 Subject: [MV] Plaintalk accuracy statistics In-Reply-To: <015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com> <5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com> <015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> Message-ID: <2DB7D556-9374-455B-9D22-EF6B80DD943A@macspeech.com> John (and everyone else): Unfortunately, speech recognition is not something that you can easily subject to scientific measurement. Why? Because the accuracy is dependent on so many factors, not the least of which is the speaker's voice, the microphone being used, and the environment in which speech recognition is being used. There are no "white papers" on the subject of which I am aware. That having been said, I can provide some insight: Technically, the term "PlainTalk" refers to a legacy speech recognition system built-into Mac OS 9 (as well as earlier) versions of the Macintosh operating system. Apple no longer refers to its built- in speech recognition system, which is command & control only, as "PlainTalk" but "English Speech Recognition." To make things a little easier moving forward, let's call it "ESR." ESR is optimized to accept speech from any voice through the Mac's built-in microphone. Although many methods are used to optimize accuracy, one way is by limiting vocabulary. While you can add your own vocabulary to the system, you can't add enough to do dictation, only command and control. My personal experience is that ESR starts to "get confused" after about 1000 words. We did some extensive tests against the system about 4 years ago. To be honest, it may be capable of more today, not only because of improvements to the programming, but simply due to increased processing power of the computers that are shipping today versus those of 4 years ago. What happens at some point is that the more commands you add, the greater the likelihood some will sound similar to others. Since ESR is a speaker independent system (meaning no training is involved for it to learn the user's voice), it will begin mis-recognizing spoken commands sooner than speaker dependent systems where the speaker has trained the system. This can be mitigated somewhat by the use of a noise-canceling microphone instead of the built-in mic, as that will filter out some of the background noise. The question regarding GUI scripting is irrelevant in terms of ESR. You can make anything that is scriptable, including GUI Scripting a "speakable item." Your restriction is with the number of commands you have asked speakable items to manage, not with the nature of the script. Technically speaking, "GUI Scripting" is simply a series of AppleScript commands that access a feature of the Mac OS that is turned on when "Enable Access for Assistive Devices" is turned on in the Universal System Preference Pane. Since any AppleScript can be made a speakable item, your only restriction is the above mentioned "confusion" with command names that sound similar. The more you take care to make your command names unique, the more commands you can add, although there would still be a problem at some point due to the very nature of ESR. Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:30 PM, John F. Richardson wrote: > Hello, > > What is the Plaintalk accuracy for speakable items? > > What is the Plaintalk accuracy for GUI scripting? > > Have there been any Apple technical reports on the subject? > > Have there been any open literature studies of Plaintalk? > > John F. Richardson > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice From richards at spawar.navy.mil Thu Nov 15 13:58:30 2007 From: richards at spawar.navy.mil (John F. Richardson) Date: Thu Nov 15 13:58:52 2007 Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to Dragon Naturally Speaking on the PC In-Reply-To: <015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com><5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com> <015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> Message-ID: <00ab01c827d2$a904d220$90903180@jpmis.mil> Hello, I only use the Macintosh and this is just for comparison purposes of the built in features. Windows Vista has built in speech recognition. Looking at the Microsoft accessability web site it seems that the speech recognition is continuous speech recognition. Is the Vista speech engine licensed from DNS or equivalent to DNS? The web site indicates that the user can fill out forms on the web and other functions. John F. Richardson From tscheresky at micron.com Thu Nov 15 14:15:55 2007 From: tscheresky at micron.com (tscheresky@micron.com) Date: Thu Nov 15 14:16:03 2007 Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC In-Reply-To: <00ab01c827d2$a904d220$90903180@jpmis.mil> References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com><5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com><015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> <00ab01c827d2$a904d220$90903180@jpmis.mil> Message-ID: The speech recognition in Vista is Microsoft's, and is not licensed from DNS. Some day it may be up to par with DNS, but right now it's not. -----Original Message----- From: macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com [mailto:macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] On Behalf Of John F. Richardson Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:59 PM To: 'A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh.' Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC Hello, I only use the Macintosh and this is just for comparison purposes of the built in features. Windows Vista has built in speech recognition. Looking at the Microsoft accessability web site it seems that the speech recognition is continuous speech recognition. Is the Vista speech engine licensed from DNS or equivalent to DNS? The web site indicates that the user can fill out forms on the web and other functions. John F. Richardson _______________________________________________ MacVoice mailing list MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice From jeff.fay at uaf.edu Thu Nov 15 14:28:55 2007 From: jeff.fay at uaf.edu (Jeffrey Fay) Date: Thu Nov 15 14:29:23 2007 Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC In-Reply-To: References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com><5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com><015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> <00ab01c827d2$a904d220$90903180@jpmis.mil> Message-ID: <50559.209.193.47.188.1195165735.squirrel@fnjaf.email.uaf.edu> As I recall, Microsoft purchased IBM's Via Voice voice recognition software several years ago. I'd bet Vista's voice recognition is based on that. Jeff tscheresky@micron.com wrote: > The speech recognition in Vista is Microsoft's, and is not licensed from > DNS. Some day it may be up to par with DNS, but right now it's not. > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > [mailto:macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] On Behalf Of > John F. Richardson > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:59 PM > To: 'A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh.' > Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to > DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC > > Hello, > > I only use the Macintosh and this is just for comparison purposes of the > built in features. > > Windows Vista has built in speech recognition. Looking at the Microsoft > accessability web site it seems that the speech recognition is > continuous speech recognition. Is the Vista speech engine licensed from > DNS or equivalent to DNS? > > The web site indicates that the user can fill out forms on the web and > other functions. > > John F. Richardson > > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice > From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Thu Nov 15 14:39:28 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Thu Nov 15 14:39:45 2007 Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC In-Reply-To: <50559.209.193.47.188.1195165735.squirrel@fnjaf.email.uaf.edu> References: <20071028210929.C25D81AEDFCC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><3F21295C-388D-449D-8E7E-7833967907DA@mac.com><5158B3E5-7A4D-4B04-8C71-512E1B5B17ED@mac.com><015701c82003$d5fabff0$90903180@jpmis.mil> <00ab01c827d2$a904d220$90903180@jpmis.mil> <50559.209.193.47.188.1195165735.squirrel@fnjaf.email.uaf.edu> Message-ID: <9209A15E-3EB9-4732-A8A6-E35C8A3A34DF@macspeech.com> All: A couple of clarifications here: - Microsoft "rolled their own" speech recognition software. It was developed in house and there is nothing about it that is licensed from any major speech recognition vendor. According to our sources, there are no plans for a Mac version. - IBM stopped developing all speech recognition products for PC and Mac in April of 2003. They went into a distribution arrangement with Nuance, makers of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, who has been selling ViaVoice since then. While Nuance is selling off the remaining inventory of ViaVoice (there were a lot of copies), they have not done any further development on the product and do not intend to do so. Our understanding is that Nuance has no intention of producing a Mac product at this time, other than selling the remaining copies of ViaVoice, which will not work on Intel Macs. To that end, iListen remains the only solution for Mac users that will run on currently shipping Macs. Our forthcoming Leopard version has many improvements, including support for Core Audio, which should result in better accuracy for many people (at least that's what the majority of our testers are reporting). We will release a Leopard- compatible version of iListen as soon as development and testing are complete. As an FYI, iListen is also the only speech recognition program on any platform that allows you to dictate directly into virtually any Macintosh, Windows, or Linux application (if you are using Parallels or VMFusion). Best Regards, Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist MacSpeech, Inc. On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Jeffrey Fay wrote: > As I recall, Microsoft purchased IBM's Via Voice voice recognition > software several years ago. I'd bet Vista's voice recognition is > based on > that. > > Jeff > > > tscheresky@micron.com wrote: >> The speech recognition in Vista is Microsoft's, and is not licensed >> from >> DNS. Some day it may be up to par with DNS, but right now it's not. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> [mailto:macvoice-bounces@listserver.themacintoshguy.com] On Behalf Of >> John F. Richardson >> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:59 PM >> To: 'A place to discuss speech recognition on Macintosh.' >> Subject: [MV] Is Windows Vista Speech Recognition equivalent to >> DragonNaturally Speaking on the PC >> >> Hello, >> >> I only use the Macintosh and this is just for comparison purposes >> of the >> built in features. >> >> Windows Vista has built in speech recognition. Looking at the >> Microsoft >> accessability web site it seems that the speech recognition is >> continuous speech recognition. Is the Vista speech engine licensed >> from >> DNS or equivalent to DNS? >> >> The web site indicates that the user can fill out forms on the web >> and >> other functions. >> >> John F. Richardson >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacVoice mailing list >> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >> _______________________________________________ >> MacVoice mailing list >> MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice From karl_kkm at lycos.com Sun Nov 25 15:16:04 2007 From: karl_kkm at lycos.com (Karl m) Date: Sun Nov 25 15:16:17 2007 Subject: [MV] iListen issues Message-ID: <20071125181604.HM.0000000000001Vv@karl_kkm.bos-mail-wwl22.lycos.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/macvoice/attachments/20071125/fd89ac69/attachment.html From jon.5j5 at gmail.com Sun Nov 25 15:40:38 2007 From: jon.5j5 at gmail.com (jon) Date: Sun Nov 25 15:40:44 2007 Subject: [MV] iListen issues In-Reply-To: <20071125181604.HM.0000000000001Vv@karl_kkm.bos-mail-wwl22.lycos.com> References: <20071125181604.HM.0000000000001Vv@karl_kkm.bos-mail-wwl22.lycos.com> Message-ID: <0D8D287B-4B2B-4530-9E01-A63E8616378B@gmail.com> Hi Karl, It was the Thanksgiving holiday weekend in the states starting on Thursday, so maybe you'll get something on Monday. -jon On Nov 25, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Karl m wrote: > Hi Everyone, > sorry this part is somewhat long winded and a bit of venting. I have > issues with iListen which am hoping that someone maybe able to help > out. I have an older version 1.6 which I never really trained my > voice on when I got it four years ago. So recently I downloaded the > upgrade 1.7.1 for it from the iListen site. The problem is that I > cannot train my voice on 1.6 version. It seems to cause a variety of > weird behaviour including screen flashing, drop down menus are > greyed out, needless to say that I cannot train my voice. I did > install version 1.7.1 but the program does not go through with the > registration process due to error: MSR registration failed etc. I > have left two tickets with the support at ilisten but have not heard > from them for over two days. Unable to contact the sales dept. > couple of days ago, if I will be able to get the full version 1.7.1 > for the price difference from the upgrade, but have not heard from > them. Oh btw the microphone works well and I have ch! ecked through > the system preferences. > My question is if anyone else has experienced similar problem. Are > there other users of version 1.6 who are successfully using the > program. If so I will keep plugging at it if not I may have to look > into DNS and a windows machine since I need the voice recognition > for professional dictation. > I am using the program on my Al Powerbook with 512ram and macOs > 10.3.9. I am using Parrot TalkPro microphone with Andrea USB > adapter. I made sure that no other programs are on while using > ilisten. > Thanks for help and suggestions. > > Karl _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice From support-manager at macspeech.com Mon Nov 26 07:14:33 2007 From: support-manager at macspeech.com (Support Manager) Date: Mon Nov 26 07:15:23 2007 Subject: [MV] iListen issues In-Reply-To: <20071125181604.HM.0000000000001Vv@karl_kkm.bos-mail-wwl22.lycos.com> References: <20071125181604.HM.0000000000001Vv@karl_kkm.bos-mail-wwl22.lycos.com> Message-ID: Karl: There was a delay in responding due to the Thanksgiving holiday. However, yesterday (on a Sunday please note) the Macspeech support staff did respond and sent you a file you will need so that registration will work properly. If you continue to experience difficulties the support staff will provide further assistance. -- Technical Support Manager MacSpeech, Inc. Check out our online Helpdesk at: On Nov 25, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Karl m wrote: > Hi Everyone, > sorry this part is somewhat long winded and a bit of venting. I have > issues with iListen which am hoping that someone maybe able to help > out. I have an older version 1.6 which I never really trained my > voice on when I got it four years ago. So recently I downloaded the > upgrade 1.7.1 for it from the iListen site. The problem is that I > cannot train my voice on 1.6 version. It seems to cause a variety of > weird behaviour including screen flashing, drop down menus are > greyed out, needless to say that I cannot train my voice. I did > install version 1.7.1 but the program does not go through with the > registration process due to error: MSR registration failed etc. I > have left two tickets with the support at ilisten but have not heard > from them for over two days. Unable to contact the sales dept. > couple of days ago, if I will be able to get the full version 1.7.1 > for the price difference from the upgrade, but have not heard from > them. Oh btw the microphone works well and I have ch! ecked through > the system preferences. > My question is if anyone else has experienced similar problem. Are > there other users of version 1.6 who are successfully using the > program. If so I will keep plugging at it if not I may have to look > into DNS and a windows machine since I need the voice recognition > for professional dictation. > I am using the program on my Al Powerbook with 512ram and macOs > 10.3.9. I am using Parrot TalkPro microphone with Andrea USB > adapter. I made sure that no other programs are on while using > ilisten. > Thanks for help and suggestions. > > Karl _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice From support-manager at macspeech.com Fri Nov 30 10:09:52 2007 From: support-manager at macspeech.com (Support Manager) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:10:39 2007 Subject: [MV] MacSpeech, Inc. Releases iListen 1.8 Message-ID: <7D58DB35-08F3-4EB9-AE4E-15BC6E4A9187@macspeech.com> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE media contact: MacSpeech, Inc. Releases iListen 1.8 iListen Now Compatible With Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard" SALEM, NH, November 30, 2007 - MacSpeech, Inc. today announced the immediate availability of iListen 1.8, an update to the Macintosh industry's leading speech recognition solution, now compatible with Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard." iListen 1.8 includes new commands to support the new TextEdit and Finder in Mac OS X 10.5, and Safari 3. In addition, significant enhancements to the Voice Launcher, a few of which are Leopard-only, and to the Web Favorites command sets are included in version 1.8. The iListen 1.8 update is also a maintenance release that fixes reported issues and adds other refinements to the Mac speech recognition solution. The iListen 1.8 update is available free of charge to all registered iListen 1.7 (and higher) customers, directly from the MacSpeech web site: About iListen iListen provides versatile and easy-to-use voice recognition for the Macintosh. With easy set-up, iListen requires minimal training to allow customers to speak in their normal, conversational voice for dictating, editing and formatting text. Beyond dictation, iListen lets people navigate their Mac and control it with their voice using familiar commands like print, cut, copy, paste, etc. Thousands of customers depend on iListen every day for everything from helping them control their Mac to writing emails, reports, and even novels. Price, Availability and Compatibility The iListen 1.8 update is available today, free of charge, to currently registered customers of iListen 1.7 (and higher). Upgrades from earlier versions are available for US$39.95. New iListen 1.8 solutions are available, with a choice of headsets, starting at US$149. iListen 1.8 requires Mac OS X 10.4 or later. About MacSpeech, Inc. MacSpeech, a Mac-only company dedicated to producing the finest speech products for Macintosh, is celebrating its ten year anniversary throughout 2007. Further information on MacSpeech and iListen can be found at . #### iListen is a trademark, and MacSpeech is a registered trademark of MacSpeech, Inc. Mac OS X is a registered trademarks of Apple, Inc. All other trademarks or registered trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Editorial Contact: -- Technical Support Manager MacSpeech, Inc. Check out our online Helpdesk at: From gbeckhart at earthlink.net Fri Nov 30 17:26:18 2007 From: gbeckhart at earthlink.net (Gordon Beckhart) Date: Fri Nov 30 17:26:31 2007 Subject: [MV] MacSpeech, Inc. Releases iListen 1.8 In-Reply-To: <7D58DB35-08F3-4EB9-AE4E-15BC6E4A9187@macspeech.com> References: <7D58DB35-08F3-4EB9-AE4E-15BC6E4A9187@macspeech.com> Message-ID: Is the update also compatible with OS 10.4.11? Gordon Beckhart From chuck.rogers at macspeech.com Fri Nov 30 20:44:12 2007 From: chuck.rogers at macspeech.com (Chuck Rogers) Date: Fri Nov 30 20:44:25 2007 Subject: [MV] MacSpeech, Inc. Releases iListen 1.8 In-Reply-To: References: <7D58DB35-08F3-4EB9-AE4E-15BC6E4A9187@macspeech.com> Message-ID: <329B7E7D-1C84-4022-A637-298C6BEB520C@macspeech.com> Yes. Version 1.8 will work with 10.4.0 and up, including 10.4.11. On Nov 30, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Gordon Beckhart wrote: > Is the update also compatible with OS 10.4.11? > Gordon Beckhart > _______________________________________________ > MacVoice mailing list > MacVoice@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/macvoice