From tlmiller at mac.com Wed Aug 1 05:51:59 2007 From: tlmiller at mac.com (T.L. Miller) Date: Wed Aug 1 05:52:38 2007 Subject: [X4U] Installing Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20070731133250.326360953@smtp.mac.com> Message-ID: <20070801125159.2089531@smtp.mac.com> On 7/31/07, at 5:31 PM, Daly Jessup jessup@san.rr.com said: >Well, when you download it from versiontracker or some place like >that, it just opens a disk image and you drag it to your desktop. No >installer involved there, either, just drag and drop. So it kind of >makes sense to me that they wouldn't suddenly have an installer for >the automatic download. Again, when I'm not asked for a password when I download and install something, I find that highly unusual. Tom Miller .................................................. "The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side." R.O.Clark ................................................... From vplewis at mac.com Wed Aug 1 07:26:47 2007 From: vplewis at mac.com (Vince Lewis) Date: Wed Aug 1 07:27:07 2007 Subject: [X4U] Installing Firefox In-Reply-To: <20070801125159.2089531@smtp.mac.com> References: <20070731133250.326360953@smtp.mac.com> <20070801125159.2089531@smtp.mac.com> Message-ID: <62C064F3-BB37-4D25-A712-4E9DD53EAB9D@mac.com> On Aug 1, 2007, at 5:51 AM, T.L. Miller wrote: > On 7/31/07, at 5:31 PM, Daly Jessup jessup@san.rr.com said: > >> Well, when you download it from versiontracker or some place like >> that, it just opens a disk image and you drag it to your desktop. No >> installer involved there, either, just drag and drop. So it kind of >> makes sense to me that they wouldn't suddenly have an installer for >> the automatic download. > > Again, when I'm not asked for a password when I download and install > something, I find that highly unusual. > > > > > > Tom Miller > .................................................. > "The only time we see the middle of the road is as > we run from side to side." R.O.Clark > ................................................... > What Daly told you was that there is no need to provide a password if you are in an admin account and the software vendor doesn't need to install additional files in someplace outside your individual user's directory. If you want to always be required to provide a password, make a non-admin account and use that as your primary account. Then every install will ask for an admin password. As far as finding this behavior "highly unusual," the fact is that this is the Apple-recommended way to deliver apps to end users. ciao, Vince From rgilmor at uwo.ca Wed Aug 1 10:15:05 2007 From: rgilmor at uwo.ca (Richard Gilmore) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:15:16 2007 Subject: [X4U] How to access a mini CD (Gerry Van Tol) In-Reply-To: <56FBFCC1-EC42-4561-A375-B131BE10AB94@mac.com> Message-ID: > On Jul 19, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Gerry Van Tol wrote: > >> Anybody knows how to put a mini CD (or pocket CD) in an iMac? I think only an external drive will do the job. From jessup at san.rr.com Wed Aug 1 16:16:55 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:23:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] Installing Firefox In-Reply-To: <20070801125159.2089531@smtp.mac.com> References: <20070731133250.326360953@smtp.mac.com> <20070801125159.2089531@smtp.mac.com> Message-ID: At 8:51 AM -0400 8/1/07, T.L. Miller wrote: >On 7/31/07, at 5:31 PM, Daly Jessup jessup@san.rr.com said: > >>Well, when you download it from versiontracker or some place like >>that, it just opens a disk image and you drag it to your desktop. No >>installer involved there, either, just drag and drop. So it kind of >>makes sense to me that they wouldn't suddenly have an installer for >>the automatic download. > >Again, when I'm not asked for a password when I download and install >something, I find that highly unusual. I can understand that, but I would say that about maybe 25% of the installers I download on my weekly orgy of updating from versiontracker, are just files that download then get dragged to the Applications folder, with no installer application. It's not really that unusual. Maybe there are licensing fees involved in using a full installer, and these people don't want to pay the fees? But these are simple applications that require dragging just one file to one location. I could choose not to do it if I wished. So why should I use a password to do something I'm voluntarily doing anyway (dragging it)? Daly ---------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 2 09:00:09 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu Aug 2 09:00:30 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed Message-ID: It is now due out sometime next year. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/326029_msftmac02.html I don't suppose there is any chance they're adding MS OneNote to the Mac version? Or for that matter does anyone know of anyone having written an equivalent program for the Mac? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From shawn at yourmaclifeshow.com Thu Aug 2 11:28:33 2007 From: shawn at yourmaclifeshow.com (Shawn King) Date: Thu Aug 2 11:28:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/2/07 12:00 PM, "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > I don't suppose there is any chance they're adding MS OneNote to the > Mac version? None. -- Shawn King Host/Executive Producer Your Mac Life http://www.yourmaclifeshow.com From timjcollier at mac.com Thu Aug 2 13:23:35 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Thu Aug 2 13:23:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> On Aug 2, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Shawn King wrote: > > > > On 8/2/07 12:00 PM, "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >> I don't suppose there is any chance they're adding MS OneNote to the >> Mac version? > > None. > > -- > Shawn King > I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. Tired of waiting for Microsoft. -- Tim Collier Mac Pro 2.66 http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From randy at macattorney.com Fri Aug 3 00:05:20 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Fri Aug 3 00:05:58 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word > Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow > it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm > actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. > Tired of waiting for Microsoft. I'm using Word v.X on my 24-inch iMac, and it loads quickly and runs really well. Word checks all of your installed fonts when it opens, so if you pare down the number of fonts that you have installed for Word, that might help it launch quicker. Also, if you have a corrupted font, or a font conflict, that can drastically slow Word's launch time. You may want to use Font Book to validate all of your fonts. Norton/Symantec Antivirus and some document management programs have been implicated with a problem with slow opening of Word. You may want to experiment with disabling any of these that you have installed too see if they are the problem. Finally, sometimes i will find that Word doesn't open or work as sprightly as it usually does, and I've found that simply repairing permissions helps. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From timjcollier at mac.com Fri Aug 3 01:40:49 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Fri Aug 3 01:41:15 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> On Aug 3, 2007, at 3:05 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > >> I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word >> Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow >> it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm >> actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. >> Tired of waiting for Microsoft. > > > I'm using Word v.X on my 24-inch iMac, and it loads quickly and > runs really well. > > Word checks all of your installed fonts when it opens, so if you > pare down the number of fonts that you have installed for Word, > that might help it launch quicker. Also, if you have a corrupted > font, or a font conflict, that can drastically slow Word's launch > time. You may want to use Font Book to validate all of your fonts. > > Norton/Symantec Antivirus and some document management programs > have been implicated with a problem with slow opening of Word. You > may want to experiment with disabling any of these that you have > installed too see if they are the problem. > > Finally, sometimes i will find that Word doesn't open or work as > sprightly as it usually does, and I've found that simply repairing > permissions helps. You're missing my point. Every other major software manufacturer has come out with a Universal Binary version. I have the Entire Adobe Suite. Except for Office, I only have Universal Binary version of present day software. Microsoft is going to come in "too little, too late". I'm certain that I'm not the only person who feels this way. We've moved on and Microsoft hasn't. They may turn out to be just an asterisk in Apple History. -- Tim Collier MacBook Pro 2.33 gig http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From kuestner at macnews.de Fri Aug 3 02:08:56 2007 From: kuestner at macnews.de (B. Kuestner) Date: Fri Aug 3 02:08:31 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed => Slow Word launch In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: Following up on Randy's tipps: Bj?rn From randy at macattorney.com Fri Aug 3 03:28:36 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Fri Aug 3 03:28:46 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> Message-ID: <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:40 AM, Tim Collier wrote: > You're missing my point. Every other major software manufacturer > has come out with a Universal Binary version. I have the Entire > Adobe Suite. Except for Office, I only have Universal Binary > version of present day software. Microsoft is going to come in > "too little, too late". I'm certain that I'm not the only person > who feels this way. We've moved on and Microsoft hasn't. They may > turn out to be just an asterisk in Apple History. I use Word all day, just about every day. I don't have a single complaint about its performance. Given that, who cares whether it is a dual binary or not? I'm not worried about how well Microsoft will do in the marketplace. I'm sure that they will do just fine. I'm also not concerned about making my Mac "pure" with only dual binary applications, just so that I can say that it is. I only care about how well my software performs, so that I can get my work done. Word running in Rosetta runs very nicely for me. When someone offers a word processor for the Macintosh that is as full-featured as Word, and folks switch to it in droves (thus making its file format a de facto standard), I'll happily switch to it. (As I did to WordPerfect/Mac when it was available.) Until then, Word is the only truly high-end word processor available for the Macintosh. And, as a professional, I'm going to be using the best tools available. For now, that's Word. I don't see any alternatives on the horizon. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Fri Aug 3 08:38:20 2007 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Fri Aug 3 08:38:45 2007 Subject: [X4U] Safari Menu Message-ID: Isn't there anything better than Safari Menu? Paul Moortgat From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 3 08:47:58 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri Aug 3 08:48:08 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> Message-ID: At 3:28 AM -0700 8/3/07, Randy B. Singer wrote: >When someone offers a word processor for the Macintosh that is as >full-featured as Word, and folks switch to it in droves (thus making >its file format a de facto standard), I'll happily switch to it. >(As I did to WordPerfect/Mac when it was available.) Until then, >Word is the only truly high-end word processor available for the >Macintosh. >And, as a professional, I'm going to be using the best tools >available. For now, that's Word. I don't see any alternatives on >the horizon. Even as a rabid Microsoft hater, I have to totally agree with this. I might hate MS and I even hate MS Word to a certain extent, however, I've yet to find anything remotely as good. BTW, I thought WordPerfect/Mac V1 was great when I used it at work years ago, when I switched from the PC and bought my first Mac (I'd previously used WP/DOS 4.2 - 5.2), I bought what was to be the last version of WordPerfect/Mac (V3.5 I believe), I thought it was horrible. MS Office 6 was the 4th and final Word Processor I *bought* that year ('95), and I've stuck with Word since then. In fact I just finished buying a second copy of Office 2004, for my wife's MacBook. Before buying a second copy I looked at a couple alternatives, including Pages and decided Word was still the way to go. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From andy.themac at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 08:51:09 2007 From: andy.themac at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Fri Aug 3 08:51:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] New group Message-ID: < http://groups.google.com/group/grumpy-old-mac-users It may be of use especially as a frustration release!. I can think of a few 'grumpy old mac users" Andy From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Fri Aug 3 08:56:02 2007 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Fri Aug 3 08:56:17 2007 Subject: [X4U] Kill Safari Menu Message-ID: <8227A2D0-1B66-4D92-AE60-0B6774784223@pandora.be> How can I kill Safari Menu in Terminal (not responding) I can't see Safari Menu when I press Comm-Option-Escape to Force Quit it. Paul Moortgat From XPressoBean at mac.com Fri Aug 3 09:00:08 2007 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Fri Aug 3 09:00:17 2007 Subject: [X4U] Kill Safari Menu In-Reply-To: <8227A2D0-1B66-4D92-AE60-0B6774784223@pandora.be> Message-ID: On 8/3/07 10:56 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote: > How can I kill Safari Menu in Terminal (not responding) I can't see > Safari Menu when I press Comm-Option-Escape to Force Quit it. Rather than using Terminal, try using Activity Monitor to Quit it. From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Fri Aug 3 09:34:48 2007 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Fri Aug 3 09:34:58 2007 Subject: [X4U] Kill Safari Menu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks. I had to Force Quit it. Paul Moortgat On 03 Aug 2007, at 18:00, Linda wrote: > On 8/3/07 10:56 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote: > >> How can I kill Safari Menu in Terminal (not responding) I can't see >> Safari Menu when I press Comm-Option-Escape to Force Quit it. > > Rather than using Terminal, try using Activity Monitor to Quit it. From earle.jones at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 09:35:28 2007 From: earle.jones at comcast.net (Earle Jones) Date: Fri Aug 3 09:35:39 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:05 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > >> I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word =20 >> Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow =20 >> it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm =20 >> actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. =20 >> Tired of waiting for Microsoft. Tim: Greetings! Have you tried 'NeoOffice' as a substitute for MS Office? I wonder =20 how it compares with Mellel. The NeoOffice PowerPoint substitute =20 works well -- so does the spreadsheet. (Intel iMac.) earle * _______________________ Earle Jones =F0 earle.jones@comcast.net 650-854-1489 From dlthompsonii at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 09:38:42 2007 From: dlthompsonii at gmail.com (Dennis Thompson II) Date: Fri Aug 3 09:39:35 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <5e9fbb0d0708030938h4f417f63n1e2e4bfbf4f52d60@mail.gmail.com> I personally use OpenOffice without any problems. It still requires X-11 on the Mac to run, but otherwise works fine for all my document and presentation needs. I've been using it on WinXP, and Linux since before 1.0. I started using on my iBook since 2.0. My wife even swears by it now. She's been using it for all of her MBA coursework. Purportedly there is a group working on an OS X native version but it may be a while. Just my $0.02 worth on the subject BTW - OpenOffice allows you to open/save as a very wide range of file formats. I've only had a couple of issues with translation and they were minor issues with a presentation slide. The main reason we don't have any MS-Office products installed is price. In addition, as soon as my wife finishes her MBA all of our PC's save one will be running some form of Linux. Hence our lack of interest in Microsoft products. Have a great weekend! Sky 14" iBook G4, 1GHz, 640MB ram, combo drive Assorted PC's built from spare parts - My favorite - Twinhead Pentium 100MHz laptop running LCARS24 on top of FreeDOS - $5 clock/alarm/timewaster (old DOS games) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20070803/397b071c/attachment-0001.html From polonius19 at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 09:55:30 2007 From: polonius19 at gmail.com (Hector Luna) Date: Fri Aug 3 09:55:41 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> Message-ID: On 8/3/07, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > > When someone offers a word processor for the Macintosh that is as > full-featured as Word, and folks switch to it in droves (thus making > its file format a de facto standard), I'll happily switch to it. It's pretty obvious to me that others use Word differently than I do, so for those of you, good for you. For my money, I can't stand composing in Word. I use CopyWrite for all of my writing, I just want to be able to get it down, keep track of revisions, etc. The running word count alone was worth the cost of the program while I was in grad school. I only copy and paste into Word for final formatting and distribution. -- When fascism comes to America it will wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.- Sinclair Lewis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20070803/1ae24b6e/attachment.html From aamolsch at shentel.net Fri Aug 3 10:05:41 2007 From: aamolsch at shentel.net (Art Amolsch) Date: Fri Aug 3 10:05:59 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <166198A8-F000-40CE-995D-20DDD3814951@shentel.net> Odd. I'm a professional newsletter publisher, have been for 31 years. Started using Macs when the Mac Plus came out -- one whole meg of RAM! For many years, we've been preparing everything from news copy to invoices using the $15.00 word processor Tex-Edit. Works great, updated from time to time for free (Although every couple of years we send the developer another $15.00; it's $15.00 for goodness sake). It will save text in more than a dozen formats, including MS Word. It has every feature we need, plus some. Final text copy goes into InDesign (Pagemaker was fine, but after Aldus sold it to Adobe, Adobe abandoned it for OS X). If we really need a high-end WP, we switch to Nisus Writer. It's really handy for opening Word docs that other people send us without going through an intermediate step like MacLinkPlus. Open in Nisus Writer, select all, paste into Tex-Edit and get back to work. I've never understood why some people need Word. But maybe that's just me, and I'm really missing something. MacBook Pro, 1Gb RAM, 10.4.10 > When someone offers a word processor for the Macintosh that is as > full-featured as Word, and folks switch to it in droves (thus > making its file format a de facto standard), I'll happily switch to > it. (As I did to WordPerfect/Mac when it was available.) Until > then, Word is the only truly high-end word processor available for > the Macintosh. And, as a professional, I'm going to be using the > best tools available. For now, that's Word. I don't see any > alternatives on the horizon. From blmatthews at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 10:14:56 2007 From: blmatthews at gmail.com (Brian L. Matthews) Date: Fri Aug 3 10:15:09 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: <46B36290.4030402@gmail.com> > Have you tried 'NeoOffice' as a substitute for MS Office? I wonder how > it compares with Mellel. The NeoOffice PowerPoint substitute works > well -- so does the spreadsheet. (Intel iMac.) I tried NeoOffice. If you think Microsoft Office is slow... One of the first things I tried was opening about the simplest spreadsheet I've got, which has a simple little 10 line macro in it that just formats the current cell. NeoOffice choked on it. I wish NeoOffice well, Microsoft Office needs some competition, but, at least for me, NeoOffice isn't there yet. Brian From bauldrywc at iplm3.appstate.edu Fri Aug 3 11:13:51 2007 From: bauldrywc at iplm3.appstate.edu (William C Bauldry) Date: Fri Aug 3 11:18:18 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Word Replacements (was: MS Office 2008 delayed) In-Reply-To: <20070803163934.55209122103A@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20070803163934.55209122103A@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Greetings All, "Randy B. Singer" had written: > I use Word all day, just about every day. I don't have a single > complaint about its performance. Given that, who cares whether > it is a dual binary or not? While I agree that usability and performance *far* outweigh whether a piece of software is a Universal Binary or not, I just can't see using Word for a serious document that is typeset. I've written 3 textbooks (2 in 2 editions) and — except for the very first done in Word in '88 — I always use LaTeX (free!) with TeXShop (free!) as the front-end. A LaTeX system produces professionally typeset output (pdf directly, if desired, but always 'camera ready' copy.) – auto ligatures, formating, indexing, ToC, floating figures/diagrams, math typeset properly, text based source files, platform independent, and much more. And did I mention it's free! Check out http://www.tug.org/mactex/ for info. Regards, Bill =============== Wm C Bauldry Prof of Math Appalachian State Univ =============== From rfcee at earthlink.net Fri Aug 3 11:31:59 2007 From: rfcee at earthlink.net (Ray Choiniere) Date: Fri Aug 3 11:32:17 2007 Subject: [X4U] Word and Nisus In-Reply-To: <166198A8-F000-40CE-995D-20DDD3814951@shentel.net> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <166198A8-F000-40CE-995D-20DDD3814951@shentel.net> Message-ID: <68060B32-8061-4EDA-B7E0-22912AAB0D20@earthlink.net> On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Art Amolsch wrote: > If we really need a high-end WP, we switch to Nisus Writer. > It's really handy for opening Word docs that other people send > us without going through an intermediate step like MacLinkPlus. > Open in Nisus Writer, select all, paste into Tex-Edit and get > back to work. I'm pleased to see someone mention NisusWriter, which has been my word processor of choice for a dozen years. (I haven't looked at Word for several years now, and when I get a .doc I just open it in NW. Almost never do I run into a problem doing that.) The newly released NisusWriter Pro offers added capabilities, greater speed, and excellent stability. Since I'm not a writing or publishing professional, I thought maybe I was missing something obvious that kept NWP out of the conversation. But now that you mention it, Art. . . Perhaps for some of us who are weary of struggling with Word (and I do understand that not everyone fits this description) it would be worth spending some attentive time with NWP. My two cents, etc. Ray From timjcollier at mac.com Fri Aug 3 14:48:25 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Fri Aug 3 14:48:35 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Earle Jones wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:05 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > >> >> On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Tim Collier wrote: >> >>> I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word >>> Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow >>> it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm >>> actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. >>> Tired of waiting for Microsoft. > > Tim: Greetings! > > Have you tried 'NeoOffice' as a substitute for MS Office? I wonder > how it compares with Mellel. The NeoOffice PowerPoint substitute > works well -- so does the spreadsheet. (Intel iMac.) > > earle Thanks, but I don't need a spreadsheet. I do use FileMaker Pro 9 as my database management tool. I like it a lot. I've just been looking at Mariner as a Word Processor, I still like Pages and Mellel but I'm wondering if something else might be just as good. Bless all of you who are devoted to Word, but even back when I was still a PC user, I didn't like Office all that much. Does Word Perfect still exist? -- Tim Collier Mac Pro 2.66 http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From RussellMcGaha at mac.com Fri Aug 3 15:25:15 2007 From: RussellMcGaha at mac.com (Russell McGaha) Date: Fri Aug 3 15:25:39 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question Message-ID: Folks; Sorry for the partially of topic post; but my bosses just hired a GREEN Graphic Artist, and I'm in charge of getting their Hardware. What are the Graphic Artists here using?? Thanks Russell From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 15:41:47 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (Wayne Wilkin) Date: Fri Aug 3 15:41:41 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> You know it really depends on what they are going to be doing. Just page layout? Page layout and Photoshop and Illustrator stuff. Most require that Graphic Artists kind of know everything now. So given that I would probably recommend this: A 3 GHz Dual Core Intel Xeon 8 gig of memory, graphic users can never get enough At least a 500 gig hard drive You probably would want to get a more than standard graphics card, this system comes with 6 options, mid option would probably due On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Russell McGaha wrote: > Folks; > Sorry for the partially of topic post; but my bosses just hired a > GREEN Graphic Artist, and I'm in charge of getting their Hardware. > What are the Graphic Artists here using?? > > Thanks > Russell > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From randy at macattorney.com Fri Aug 3 15:46:46 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Fri Aug 3 15:47:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> Message-ID: <8704FDF6-B296-4051-8AD7-9303C609E22A@macattorney.com> On Aug 3, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > Does Word Perfect still exist? The Macintosh version was discontinued years ago. The last version for the Mac cannot run in OS X, but it can run in Classic. There is a dedicated group of WP/Mac users at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wordperfectmac/ And if you are interested, they can tell you where to download a free copy of the last version of WP/Mac, and how to run it under OS X using SheepShaver. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From RussellMcGaha at mac.com Fri Aug 3 16:23:28 2007 From: RussellMcGaha at mac.com (Russell McGaha) Date: Fri Aug 3 16:23:53 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: Yeah; I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and Software recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a printed catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, and with the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH more when they finish. On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:41 PM, Wayne Wilkin wrote: > You know it really depends on what they are going to be doing. > Just page layout? Page layout and Photoshop and Illustrator stuff. > Most require that Graphic Artists kind of know everything now. > So given that I would probably recommend this: > > A 3 GHz Dual Core Intel Xeon > 8 gig of memory, graphic users can never get enough > At least a 500 gig hard drive > You probably would want to get a more than standard graphics card, > this system comes with 6 options, mid option would probably due > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Russell McGaha wrote: > >> Folks; >> Sorry for the partially of topic post; but my bosses just hired a >> GREEN Graphic Artist, and I'm in charge of getting their >> Hardware. What are the Graphic Artists here using?? >> >> Thanks >> Russell >> _______________________________________________ >> X4U mailing list >> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From netkat at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 16:31:03 2007 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Fri Aug 3 16:31:53 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: I know the impulse is to go for Max firepower, but the fact is that 2D illustration can be done with far less than a Dual core Xeon with 8 gigs of RAM...THAT kind of a rig is intended for 3D animation, video, multimedia. Lots of places bang out the pages with less powerful hardware and do just fine. prbly an Intel iMac would do it, or a more modest mac pro. 2 gigs of RAM would be more than plenty. Unless you're having them do lots of heavy duty high end retouching, this kind of rig will do fine. adobe's creative suite is standard now. lots of places still use quark, but if you're firing up a department, might as well go with the inevitable standard now. nk On Aug 3, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Russell McGaha wrote: > Yeah; > I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had > intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and Software > recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a printed > catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, and with > the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH more when > they finish. ____________________________________ Discuss sustainability at: www.thinkplan.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 3 16:48:15 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri Aug 3 16:48:29 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: from "Tim Collier" at Aug 03, 2007 05:48:25 PM Message-ID: <200708032348.l73NmFcw030443@onyx.spiritone.com> > Thanks, but I don't need a spreadsheet. I do use FileMaker Pro 9 as > my database management tool. I like it a lot. I've just been > looking at Mariner as a Word Processor, I still like Pages and > Mellel but I'm wondering if something else might be just as good. > Bless all of you who are devoted to Word, but even back when I was > still a PC user, I didn't like Office all that much. Does Word > Perfect still exist? Personally while I'm no doubt in your "devoted to Word" catagory, I'd love to find an alternative that would do what I want just as well. I use very few of its features, but still haven't found a good replacement. I'm interested in checking out a couple that have been mentioned in this thread such as Nisus Writer Pro. I do use MS Excel, but my usage is light enough I could probably get away with either switching to some Open Source alternative, or just staying on MS Excel 2004 for the forseable future (even after switching to an Intel Mac. My large databases are in either FileMaker Pro 5.5 (might upgrade one of these days, or I'll switch to MySQL), or in Oracle RDB if they need to be web accessible. WordPerfect still exists, as does Quatro Pro and Paradox, they're all available as a WordPerfect Office bundle. Zane From drcohen at mac.com Fri Aug 3 16:51:15 2007 From: drcohen at mac.com (Dennis R. Cohen) Date: Fri Aug 3 16:51:21 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <20070803232351.BAD32122609F@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: On 8/3/07 at 5:48 PM, Tim Collier transmitted the following electronic message: >On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Earle Jones wrote: > >> >> On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:05 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: >> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Tim Collier wrote: >>> >>>> I find that I'm using Pages and Mellel (another Universal Word >>>> Processor) more and more and Word less and less. I hate how slow >>>> it loads on my Intel Macs and I'm beginning to doubt that I'm >>>> actually going to upgrade when (if) the update ever comes out. >>>> Tired of waiting for Microsoft. >> >> Tim: Greetings! >> >> Have you tried 'NeoOffice' as a substitute for MS Office? I wonder >> how it compares with Mellel. The NeoOffice PowerPoint substitute >> works well -- so does the spreadsheet. (Intel iMac.) >> >> earle > >Thanks, but I don't need a spreadsheet. I do use FileMaker Pro 9 as >my database management tool. I like it a lot. I've just been >looking at Mariner as a Word Processor, I still like Pages and >Mellel but I'm wondering if something else might be just as good. >Bless all of you who are devoted to Word, but even back when I was >still a PC user, I didn't like Office all that much. Does Word >Perfect still exist? Word Perfect doesn't still exist in a Mac version (except for the very old ones that can run in Classic on a PowerPC-based Mac). I agree with Tim about FileMaker Pro (after all, I write books about it and don't take the time to create a tome on something I don't like). So far as Word is concerned (the subject of this thread), I still think of it, as I did back in 1984 with Word 1.0 and 1.05, that it is "the Listerine of Word Processors" (I hate it but I use it twice a day :) ). Until somebody comes up with a cross-platform solution that supports revision tracking and styles as thoroughly as Word does, I don't see major publishers like Wiley, Addison-Wesley, O'Reilly, or Peachpit converting their processes. There's a lot to dislike about Word (and the Word 2007 that my Windows-using friends are bitterly complaining about suggests that Microsoft's UI designers still have their heads firmly planted within their anal orifices), but it is still the only currently viable solution for collaborative cross-platform text development. I sincerely wish that there was an alternative, but at least with the Mac version of Word, I can do my work without having to write and edit on a Windows box (or in a Windows virtual machine). -- Dennis R. Cohen From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 3 16:59:51 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri Aug 3 17:00:02 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: from "Dennis R. Cohen" at Aug 03, 2007 04:51:15 PM Message-ID: <200708032359.l73NxpYY030653@onyx.spiritone.com> > converting their processes. There's a lot to dislike about Word (and the > Word 2007 that my Windows-using friends are bitterly complaining about > suggests that Microsoft's UI designers still have their heads firmly > planted within their anal orifices), but it is still the only currently > viable solution for collaborative cross-platform text development. I've not used Word 2007 (I'm still using 2003 on the PC), however, some of my coworkers have upgraded. Based on what I've seen, I really hope that Office 2008/Mac does not have the same interface! If it does, I don't think I'll even consider upgradeing to Office 2008. Zane From ralph at avatarbiz.com Fri Aug 3 17:16:17 2007 From: ralph at avatarbiz.com (Ralph) Date: Fri Aug 3 17:16:28 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question Message-ID: <3AF4A8F9-DD4B-4C2B-A1E5-C451CAF5D575@avatarbiz.com> That's a lot of computer for a "GREEN Graphic Artist"! A 20-inch (or better, 24-inch) iMac with 3GB of RAM would do just fine (that's better than any artist in our shop has to work with; I do all my design and production work on a 17-inch 1.67 GHz G4 PowerBook with 1GB of RAM). For a catalog project, HD space will be the big issue (what with photos and so on); the 750GB option Apple offers should do it. You can add an external later if need be. In short, go for greatest screen real estate and storage capacity first and foremost. Just about any current processor will serve well enough; especially for catalogs, the machine doesn't need to be a speed demon. Software: either Quark xPress or Adobe InDesign for page layout (depends on what the designer trained on; these days, InDesign is preferred); Photoshop for working with product shots, etc.; Illustrator for line drawings and other vector graphics (like logos); and Acrobat Professional. If they'll use InDesign, get the Adobe bundle. For someone who's new to the game, this system will provide room to grow for years, and won't overly tax your budget. Ralph Jones Avatar Community Business Center Fairfax, California ralph@avatarbiz.com > You know it really depends on what they are going to be doing. > Just page layout? Page layout and Photoshop and Illustrator stuff. > Most require that Graphic Artists kind of know everything now. > So given that I would probably recommend this: > > A 3 GHz Dual Core Intel Xeon > 8 gig of memory, graphic users can never get enough > At least a 500 gig hard drive > You probably would want to get a more than standard graphics card, > this system comes with 6 options, mid option would probably due From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 17:45:14 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (Wayne Wilkin) Date: Fri Aug 3 17:45:08 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> Your kidding right? An iMac w/2 gigs of ram. The OS and In-Design and or Quark, by itself will eat that right up. Not to mention, ever want to expand? Forget it! Design stations need the ability to be upgraded and the ability add more storage, easily! Maybe your right about some of this, it's a little more, but myself working in this field as a designer and now a tech support specialist still in the industry, all I know is I get far lesser complaints about slow-downs etc, the kind you would get with a 2/gig iMac. On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:31 PM, nk wrote: > I know the impulse is to go for Max firepower, but the fact is that > 2D illustration can be done with far less than a Dual core Xeon > with 8 gigs of RAM...THAT kind of a rig is intended for 3D > animation, video, multimedia. > > Lots of places bang out the pages with less powerful hardware and > do just fine. > > prbly an Intel iMac would do it, or a more modest mac pro. 2 gigs > of RAM would be more than plenty. Unless you're having them do lots > of heavy duty high end retouching, this kind of rig will do fine. > > adobe's creative suite is standard now. lots of places still use > quark, but if you're firing up a department, might as well go with > the inevitable standard now. > > > > nk > > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Russell McGaha wrote: > >> Yeah; >> I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had >> intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and >> Software recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a >> printed catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, >> and with the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH >> more when they finish. > > ____________________________________ > Discuss sustainability at: www.thinkplan.org > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From jessup at san.rr.com Fri Aug 3 17:56:16 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Fri Aug 3 18:01:12 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: At 6:23 PM -0500 8/3/07, Russell McGaha wrote: >Yeah; > I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had >intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and Software >recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a printed >catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, and with >the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH more when they >finish. Is it a given that they are on a Macintosh? Or are you asking about Mac OR PC solutions? Daly ---------------------- From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 18:10:01 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (wilkinw) Date: Fri Aug 3 18:10:09 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: <1CC2F120-B0B5-4112-8A06-F725D13EB534@mac.com> That's funny! It was stated to be off-topic but just imagine that, maybe it's not a mac! Talk about off-topic On Aug 3, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Daly Jessup wrote: > At 6:23 PM -0500 8/3/07, Russell McGaha wrote: >> Yeah; >> I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had >> intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and >> Software recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a >> printed catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, >> and with the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH >> more when they finish. > > Is it a given that they are on a Macintosh? Or are you asking about > Mac OR PC solutions? > > Daly > ---------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From momathome at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 18:16:38 2007 From: momathome at gmail.com (Judi Sohn) Date: Fri Aug 3 18:16:57 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:55 PM, Hector Luna wrote: > > > On 8/3/07, Randy B. Singer wrote: > When someone offers a word processor for the Macintosh that is as > full-featured as Word, and folks switch to it in droves (thus making > its file format a de facto standard), I'll happily switch to it. > > It's pretty obvious to me that others use Word differently than I > do, so for those of you, good for you. > I don't have a problem with Word 2004, except it *is* painfully slow on an Intel Mac when launching. I've kept trying the alternatives (OpenOffice, NeoOffice, etc.) and after a while I always come back to Word. I have to work with others too much. I posted something about all this on Web Worker Daily this evening: http://webworkerdaily.com/2007/08/03/mac-office-2008-slips-to-2008- should-we-care From RussellMcGaha at mac.com Fri Aug 3 18:58:41 2007 From: RussellMcGaha at mac.com (Russell McGaha) Date: Fri Aug 3 18:59:00 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: Mac only. On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:56 PM, Daly Jessup wrote: > At 6:23 PM -0500 8/3/07, Russell McGaha wrote: >> Yeah; >> I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had >> intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and >> Software recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a >> printed catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, >> and with the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH >> more when they finish. > > Is it a given that they are on a Macintosh? Or are you asking about > Mac OR PC solutions? > > Daly > ---------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From randy at macattorney.com Fri Aug 3 19:34:23 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Fri Aug 3 19:34:30 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Judi Sohn wrote: > I don't have a problem with Word 2004, except it *is* painfully > slow on an Intel Mac when launching. >> Fellow OS X web workers, have you given up on Word?or are you like >> me, and feel you have no choice but to roll with the punches for a >> few more months? That's sort of like asking "Do you still beat your wife?" What if the answer to your non-question is: "I use Word all the time and find it to be a really good program and have no complaints?" (Indeed, when the new version of Word is released, its likely that I will stand pat with the old version unless the new version has features that I haven't heard about yet that are really compelling.) If Word is slow to launch, that is usually easy to fix. I've already posted some suggestions on how to speed up Word's launching. Why not fix it, instead of writing a blog whining and complaining about Word? Other folks complain that Word runs slowly. That's easy to fix also, and I can help with that, if you like. But it seems to me that some folks aren't really interested in fixing these things, they just enjoy bashing Microsoft, and/or whining and complaining about Microsoft's products. Which is fine, I guess. It's just hard to take such folks seriously, because the natural question that comes to mind is "are you trying to get work done, or are you just interested in being churlish?" ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From netkat at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 20:08:26 2007 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Fri Aug 3 20:08:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> Message-ID: <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> I am not kidding in the least. I respect your experience, and I know what I've seen. if OS X and a page layout application gobble up 2 gigs of ram, you have other issues. I have 2 G4 minis and I do this kind of work all the time, plus 3D and video. The minis each have 1gb RAM each and they handle the work I throw at them. It used to be true that pretty much everyone needed as much computer as they could get their hands on, but after about the G4 or so, 2D demands are easily met by any Mac, even so-called 'consumer' models like ibook or mini. the original poster specified or implied that this is a design environment, and that is fundamentally different than a prepress environment or full-on photoshop retouching, where there is no such thing as enough RAM of CPU power. nk On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Wayne Wilkin wrote: > Your kidding right? An iMac w/2 gigs of ram. The OS and In-Design and > or Quark, by itself will eat that right up. Not to mention, ever want > to expand? Forget it! > Design stations need the ability to be upgraded and the ability add > more storage, easily! Maybe your right about some of this, it's a > little more, but myself working in this field as a designer and now a > tech support specialist still in the industry, all I know is I get far > lesser complaints about slow-downs etc, the kind you would get with a > 2/gig iMac. From maclist at analogdigital.com.au Fri Aug 3 20:44:49 2007 From: maclist at analogdigital.com.au (Christopher Collins) Date: Fri Aug 3 20:45:14 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> Message-ID: I think the other part that people are forgetting is :NEW: graphic artist part of the question. So chances are, He or She may not be very familiar with the software and/or OS X and will be learning not only the job they have to do, but also the software. This will mean, He/She will be nowhere near as productive, or as fast, as a trained graphic artist. I think the most balanced option I have heard so far is the 24" iMac with 2GB RAM, possibly with a HDD upgrade. For graphics and desktop publishing usage, desktop real estate is the most useful thing you can have. Even a Core 2 Duo or Core Duo CPU won't be over loaded in this type of environment. I wouldn't recommend less than 2GB of RAM on any Intel Mac for one reason only - each uses 2 modules. So to upgrade, you must replace what you have, not add to it. Go for the extra video card memory option and the extra HDD capacity only if you don't have external or server storage. Just for comparison (US Apple Store): Apple iMac 24", 2.33GHz C2D CPU, 2GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Wireless KBD and Mouse, 256MB Video Card = US$2808.00 Apple Mac Pro, 2 * 2.0GHZ Dual Core Xeon, 2GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Wireless KBD and Mouse, 256MB Video Card, Apple Cinema Display 23" = US$3615.00 There is a saving of US$807.00. Is a beginner graphic artist likely to notice any real difference between these 2 machines? UNLIKELY! Perhaps poofteenths of a second here and there. And that US$807 goes a long way towards covering the cost of the necessary software! Adobe Creative Suite CS3 Design Standard (InDesign, Acrobat, Photoshop and Illustrator) = US$1199 (Mac Mall) So which way is a business owner likely to go when presented with these options? Let alone a non-profit? It seems very obvious. While it is nice to have the latest and greatest, business needs and finances usually dictate otherwise. My 2 cents worth after many years of dealing with business owners and purchasers in both the PC and Mac worlds. Christopher From lstnmt at bresnan.net Sat Aug 4 00:15:12 2007 From: lstnmt at bresnan.net (Jens Selvig) Date: Sat Aug 4 00:15:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] MacBook Pro decision Message-ID: I have a G4 17'' powerbook and am thinking about upgrading to a MacBook Pro 15". I am weighing the cost difference between the two 15" models vs. performance. $500 price difference is significant to my budget. The differences seem to me to be in three areas: Processor speed: about 10 percent Hard drive capacity: 40 gigs Video card: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with 128MB SDRAM vs. NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM Processor and Hard drive issues seem minor but I don't know if the video card is a significant item or not. Any thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated. I don't really overwork my powerbook now, so I am sure the MacBook Pro will be over kill for my purposes. Jens Jens Selvig ...lost in Montana... lstnmt(at)bresnan.net From kirkmc at mac.com Sat Aug 4 00:29:14 2007 From: kirkmc at mac.com (Kirk McElhearn) Date: Sat Aug 4 00:29:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] MacBook Pro decision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8450A5CA-B8EC-48A6-B22C-B15861F79E6A@mac.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Jens Selvig wrote: > Any thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated. Whatever your decision, you'll be disappointed when the next model comes out. Don't bother spending more for a tiny performance bump; it's never worth the money. Kirk Co-author of: Mastering Mac OS X - Tiger Edition http://www.mcelhearn.com/tiger.html - - - - - - Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com Musings, Opinion and Miscellanea, on Macs, iPods and more From tim_collier at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 4 03:01:51 2007 From: tim_collier at bellsouth.net (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 03:01:58 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Wayne Wilkin wrote: > Your kidding right? An iMac w/2 gigs of ram. The OS and In-Design > and or Quark, by itself will eat that right up. Not to mention, > ever want to expand? Forget it! > Design stations need the ability to be upgraded and the ability add > more storage, easily! Maybe your right about some of this, it's a > little more, but myself working in this field as a designer and now > a tech support specialist still in the industry, all I know is I > get far lesser complaints about slow-downs etc, the kind you would > get with a 2/gig iMac. > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:31 PM, nk wrote: > >> I know the impulse is to go for Max firepower, but the fact is >> that 2D illustration can be done with far less than a Dual core >> Xeon with 8 gigs of RAM...THAT kind of a rig is intended for 3D >> animation, video, multimedia. >> ...heavy duty high end retouching, this kind of rig will do fine. >> >> adobe's creative suite is standard now. lots of places still use >> quark, but if you're firing up a department, might as well go with >> the inevitable standard now. >> >> >> >> On Aug 3, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Russell McGaha wrote: >> >>> Yeah; >>> I probably should have given just a LITTLE more info; I had >>> intended to but forgot. I'm looking for both Hardware and >>> Software recommendations. They will be doing [at first anyway] a >>> printed catalog redo that's a couple of hundred pages currently, >>> and with the new pictures of the products, will likely be MUCH >>> more when they finish. >> >> ____________________________________ I've got to agree there. I own a Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro. I've got the Mac Pro tricked out with 6 gig of RAM now and the MacBook Pro is at 2 gig. Got 4 750 gig hard drives in the Mac Pro. I don't do nearly the type of highend graphics work that the above poster does, but I wouldn't even try to run PhotoShop CS3 and Dreamweaver and Flash all at the same time on the MacBook Pro. It's just not designed for it. The Mac Pro is. It runs much faster being a quad core 2.66 and with the added RAM, is capable of handling just about everything. I use the MacBook Pro for some minor Dreamweaver work, email and web browsing. Apple designed it's different machines with certain end users in mind. You have to remember this. -- Tim Collier MacBook Pro 2.33 gig http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From tim_collier at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 4 03:15:07 2007 From: tim_collier at bellsouth.net (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 03:15:17 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:34 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Judi Sohn wrote: > >> I don't have a problem with Word 2004, except it *is* painfully >> slow on an Intel Mac when launching. > >>> Fellow OS X web workers, have you given up on Word?or are you >>> like me, and feel you have no choice but to roll with the punches >>> for a few more months? > > > That's sort of like asking "Do you still beat your wife?" > What if the answer to your non-question is: "I use Word all the > time and find it to be a really good program and have no complaints?" > (Indeed, when the new version of Word is released, its likely that > I will stand pat with the old version ....bout Microsoft's products. > Which is fine, I guess. It's just hard to take such folks > seriously, because the natural question that comes to mind is "are > you trying to get work done, or are you just interested in being > churlish?" > Strangely enough, I do have some experience with Office 2007 (PC version), I installed Vista and bought Office along with it for use on the Mac Pro. They've changed EVERYTHING and I might add NOT for the better. After a couple of Word documents and then trying to put together an Access Database, I threw up my hands in disgust....now how many manuals am I going to have to read before I get some inkling as to how to use this new "crap"? From what I've read, the Mac Version for 2008 is going to be along the same line...no thank you very much. Yesterday, I bought Mariner Write and Mariner Calc. They handle .xls and .doc documents just fine and you can save them in that format. I've now removed Word and Excel and am happily Microsoft free. Just my experience here, there are alternatives to Office (that also won't cost you an arm and a leg. Be open minded and remember to "think different". Oh and this email is written using Apple Mail, not Entourage. -- Tim Collier MacBook Pro 2.33 gig http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From tim_collier at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 4 03:19:59 2007 From: tim_collier at bellsouth.net (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 03:20:13 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7A8BB04B-F69E-4726-8830-7DE99901ECB6@bellsouth.net> On Aug 3, 2007, at 11:08 PM, nk wrote: > I am not kidding in the least. > > I respect your experience, and I know what I've seen. if OS X and a > page layout application gobble up 2 gigs of ram, you have other > issues. > > I have 2 G4 minis and I do this kind of work all the time, plus 3D > and video. The minis each have 1gb RAM each and they handle the > work I throw at them. > > It used to be true that pretty much everyone needed as much > computer as they could get their hands on, but after about the G4 > or so, 2D demands are easily met by any Mac, even so-called > 'consumer' models like ibook or mini. > > the original poster specified or implied that this is a design > environment, and that is fundamentally different than a prepress > environment or full-on photoshop retouching, where there is no such > thing as enough RAM of CPU power. > > nk > OK, try playing The Sims 2 on a MacBook and come back and tell me the same thing. -- Tim Collier MacBook Pro 2.33 gig http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From neil at laubenthal.net Sat Aug 4 04:35:57 2007 From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal) Date: Sat Aug 4 04:36:15 2007 Subject: [X4U] MacBook Pro decision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D5CCE37-777B-4BD0-B428-329C234245C4@laubenthal.net> I've always found that the middle model (i.e., the better 15 incher) is usually the best bang for the buck; and gives the longest effective lifetime before I_wanna_new_one_itis starts to rear it's head. I typically only replace my primary machine (laptop) every 3-4 years; so going low end makes me behind the power curve more quickly. Drive space can go pretty quickly . . . especially if you get either Parallels or Fusion (I have both for work purposes) and have more than one virtual machine (I do). My 160 GB drive only has about 30 GB free at this point. The video card difference is only important if you're really a big gamer; for normal use you won't see much difference. The processor speed won't be all that relevant unless you're doing big Photoshop files with lots of filters or lots of video compression or other stuff that's just number crunching. In normal use, a 10% faster processor will hardly be noticeable. On Aug 4, 2007, at 03:15, Jens Selvig wrote: > I have a G4 17'' powerbook and am thinking about upgrading to a > MacBook Pro 15". I am weighing the cost difference between the two > 15" models vs. performance. $500 price difference is significant to > my budget. > > The differences seem to me to be in three areas: > > Processor speed: about 10 percent > > Hard drive capacity: 40 gigs > > Video card: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with 128MB SDRAM > vs. NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM > > Processor and Hard drive issues seem minor but I don't know if the > video card is a significant item or not. > > Any thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated. > > I don't really overwork my powerbook now, so I am sure the MacBook > Pro will be over kill for my purposes. > > Jens > > Jens Selvig > ....lost in Montana... > > lstnmt(at)bresnan.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From momathome at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 05:17:13 2007 From: momathome at gmail.com (Judi Sohn) Date: Sat Aug 4 05:17:29 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:34 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > That's sort of like asking "Do you still beat your wife?" > What if the answer to your non-question is: "I use Word all the > time and find it to be a really good program and have no complaints?" Oh Randy, please, give me a break. Lighten up. Why are you taking this as some personal insult? I said in my post that I don't mind Word 2004. I certainly prefer it to Word 2003 which is what all my colleagues use. Word is slow on Intel Macs mostly because it's running in emulation. Period. Hack and tweak it all you want. It's not going to change it into a universal binary. 99.9% of users aren't going to read your tips and jump through hoops to get acceptable performance. They expect it out of the box. And as I said in my post, for many (who keep their applications up to date), the Office applications are among the last bit of non-native code they have to deal with...and it shows. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Aug 4 07:37:03 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Aug 4 07:37:24 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9EAB5C21-83CE-48CD-8720-E415E3A4D95E@myrealbox.com> On 4 Aug 2007, at 04:08, nk wrote: > ... > I respect your experience, and I know what I've seen. if OS X and a > page layout application gobble up 2 gigs of ram, you have other > issues. > > I have 2 G4 minis and I do this kind of work all the time, plus 3D > and video. The minis each have 1gb RAM each and they handle the > work I throw at them. Intel Macs seem to be more demanding of RAM. Personally, I've always been surprised that iMacs are popular in design environments. I was a courier in London when the first iMac came out and all the receptions were loving them; "they bought me a new computer! Look, isn't it SO cute!" but I don't understand why you'd buy a really nice 20" or 24" flatscreen which you have to throw away when you need to expand the RAM (past 2gig or whatever). I suppose that realistically, this only affects the office junior, who is not involved in the purchasing decision in the first place. Stroller From dancurr at frontiernet.net Sat Aug 4 08:04:46 2007 From: dancurr at frontiernet.net (Dan A Currie) Date: Sat Aug 4 08:05:08 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying Message-ID: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> Hello All, I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before the kids wear them out or destroy them. Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB storage, with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. Help! Dan Currie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20070804/ac930bbf/attachment.html From XPressoBean at mac.com Sat Aug 4 08:15:39 2007 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Sat Aug 4 08:15:53 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 8/3/07 10:08 PM, nk wrote: > I respect your experience, and I know what I've seen. if OS X and a > page layout application gobble up 2 gigs of ram, you have other issues. > > I have 2 G4 minis and I do this kind of work all the time, plus 3D and > video. The minis each have 1gb RAM each and they handle the work I > throw at them. My personal experience with a dual 2.0GHz G5 with 2.5 GB RAM is that InDesignCS2 (no extra plugins) crawls, beachballs, and takes forever to open and update links. QuarkXPress 6 and 7 are okay, performance-wise. On a typical day, on this Mac, I usually have both XPress and InD open, plus Photoshop, Mail, Entourage, Thunderbird (yes, three mail apps), Safari, Firefox, Linotype FontExplorer, Acrobat 7 Pro (can't stand v8), Fetch, and Word. It would be fine for a beginning graphics person. With each software upgrade, it's become a little slower for me. I've got an original 6-year-old Cinema Display (22 inches, was it?) for layout, and a 17" LCD Studio Display next to it for my email and palettes. I have a Dr Botts ACD box so that I can hook up both ACD connectors to the stock video on my G5. I did install a second internal hard disk, 200 GB, to complement the 180 that the Mac came with. For a graphics workstation, I'd also recommend a trackball (I use an Orbit optical) and a pen/tablet/mouse combo (I have the smallest size Wacom Graphire, and it really is too small even for "just learning" when paired with the ginormous monitor -- yes, ginormous is a word, just added to the dictionary this summer). I'd also recommend the best chair money can buy. I have a Steelcase Leap? and haven't regretted spending the money on it five or six years ago. I'm in that chair more hours a day than I sleep, and not scrimping is SO worth it, comparing it to the $200 Office Depot chair it replaced... A pair of desk lamps with "daylight" bulbs will also help offset the flicker and false color of the overhead office fluorescents. When I quit working at a studio and started freelancing for myself, I took this habit home with me too, and find it's much easier on my eyes -- less fatigue and less heat, using daylight CFLs rather than overhead lighting in my room. ~LindaW From jessup at san.rr.com Sat Aug 4 08:24:43 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Sat Aug 4 08:27:53 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: At 10:04 AM -0500 8/4/07, Dan A Currie wrote: >Hello All, > >I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before the >kids wear them out or destroy them. > >Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. > >I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB storage, >with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. The easiest way I know is with Toast Titanium. Put in the DVD, click Copy and it will make an image, then invite you to insert a blank DVD. Daly ---------------------- From XPressoBean at mac.com Sat Aug 4 08:42:29 2007 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Sat Aug 4 08:42:40 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <166198A8-F000-40CE-995D-20DDD3814951@shentel.net> Message-ID: On 8/3/07 12:05 PM, Art Amolsch wrote: > I've never understood why some people need Word. But maybe > that's just me, and I'm really missing something. A question directed to anyone: Can you use Track Changes balloons/comments in Nisus Writer or Tex-Edit or OpenOffice? What happens to the suggested edits when you open a Word doc that has tracked changes? Can you read Word's Track Changes markup? Can you respond in kind and send the doc off down the line? Every major publishing house with which I've worked (such as Random House, Fodor's, Wiley, Mosby, to name a few you'd recognize) requires Word in their upstream process (during the collaboration on edits and changes between authors and editors). That means I have to have it, too, to handle these files. Do Tex-Edit and/or Nisus Writer or OpenOffice offer indexing features? Other clients of mine have their manuscript indexed in Word (which inserts indexing codes next to terms that they want to appear in the final index), and then I run a VBasic macro that converts Word's indexing codes to XPress' IndeXTension indexing codes, so that I can automagically generate a usable index from the final layout (done in QuarkXPress). Can someone tell me how I'd do that in one of these other "does as much as Word" programs? I'm pleased as punch that so many of you have found a way to live your life without Micro$oft on your computers. I wish *I* could! Reality is, unless you can show me totally invisible workarounds for the two scenarios up above, not everyone can shed Word, and the insinuations that we could if we really wanted to are pretty hurtful. Those of you who work in publishing -- other than self-contained, self- or small-press publishing -- know what I'm talking about. peace, Linda (not upgrading to Word 2008 because it lacks VBasic and so none of her sometimes-expensive macros will work...) From netkat at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 09:05:19 2007 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Sat Aug 4 09:05:31 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <7A8BB04B-F69E-4726-8830-7DE99901ECB6@bellsouth.net> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> <7A8BB04B-F69E-4726-8830-7DE99901ECB6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:19 AM, Tim Collier wrote: > OK, try playing The Sims 2 on a MacBook and come back and tell me the > same thing. I am not a gamer; I am an artist and designer. I'll have to defer to your knowledge of games. nk From netkat at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 09:06:49 2007 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Sat Aug 4 09:07:00 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <7A8BB04B-F69E-4726-8830-7DE99901ECB6@bellsouth.net> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <61140EB4-323A-4E21-A52F-C56D55DEF54D@mac.com> <97235f568acbd0038dae3b39d0df5956@comcast.net> <7A8BB04B-F69E-4726-8830-7DE99901ECB6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: and not to pop anyone's bubble but I have seen G4 Mac Mini's in heavy use in some pretty frenetic production environments at weekly publications, which, as you know, have very aggressive and immovable deadline pressures. nk From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 09:13:57 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (wilkinw) Date: Sat Aug 4 09:14:03 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> Message-ID: <8D98C0A4-2493-490E-8E20-AE103FF14631@mac.com> What have I started!! From mac at kapellos.com Sat Aug 4 10:00:30 2007 From: mac at kapellos.com (alexandre) Date: Sat Aug 4 10:01:15 2007 Subject: [X4U] (POT) Graphic Artist Question In-Reply-To: <8D98C0A4-2493-490E-8E20-AE103FF14631@mac.com> References: <7882754E-7278-4450-AB77-F1F136F11294@mac.com> <8D98C0A4-2493-490E-8E20-AE103FF14631@mac.com> Message-ID: On 4 ao?t 07, at 18:13, wilkinw wrote: > What have I started!! > WWIII? From mac at kapellos.com Sat Aug 4 10:05:47 2007 From: mac at kapellos.com (alexandre) Date: Sat Aug 4 10:05:52 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> On 4 ao?t 07, at 17:24, Daly Jessup wrote: > At 10:04 AM -0500 8/4/07, Dan A Currie wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before >> the kids wear them out or destroy them. >> >> Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. >> I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB storage, >> with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. > > The easiest way I know is with Toast Titanium. Put in the DVD, > click Copy and it will make an image, then invite you to insert a > blank DVD. > hi, i'm noz sure that the above method works if the DVDs are copy-protected. my tip: use handbrake, choose and average bitrate of 1500kbps (or more), select 2-pass encoding, select the movie language and subtitles, and press "rip". easy. the only issue with handbrake is that you lose the menus, you just end up with an mpeg4 file. regards, alexandre :: 17" 2.33ghz ic2d macbook pro / 2.0gb / 160gb / X.4.10 :: :: 24" 2.33ghz ic2d imac / 2.0gb / 250gb / X.4.10 :: From peterstj at earthlink.net Sat Aug 4 12:06:37 2007 From: peterstj at earthlink.net (Peter Saint James) Date: Sat Aug 4 12:06:56 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <204B5F46-DDD5-4682-B2CA-E45B03D31659@earthlink.net> > That's sort of like asking "Do you still beat your wife?" In this case, it might be more like, "Is your wife still beating you?" I'm afraid I fall into the I-use-it-because-I-can't-find-anything- else-but-I-wish-could camp. Word usually works fairly well for me, but--as with most MS products--I always have the feeling I'm fighting with the program instead of getting cooperation from it. Every time I try to do something a little different, it gives me a problem. That does not lend itself to creativity. If it were a wife, I'm sure I would have consulted with a divorce lawyer by now, but I'm not sure I would have started proceedings. She's mean to me, but I'm not sure other programs would treat me any better. She sometimes has supper on the table and the house is not always a mess, but it's not a positive environment either. She says she can do things for me, but they don't seem to materialize. I keep having affairs with other programs. Maybe one of them will turn into true love. Peter From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 12:46:32 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (wilkinw) Date: Sat Aug 4 12:46:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> Message-ID: <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> DVD2one is also a good choice. Have used it for a long time. It costs but works great. On Aug 4, 2007, at 1:05 PM, alexandre wrote: > > On 4 ao?t 07, at 17:24, Daly Jessup wrote: > >> At 10:04 AM -0500 8/4/07, Dan A Currie wrote: >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before >>> the kids wear them out or destroy them. >>> >>> Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. >>> I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB >>> storage, with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. >> >> The easiest way I know is with Toast Titanium. Put in the DVD, >> click Copy and it will make an image, then invite you to insert a >> blank DVD. >> > > hi, > i'm noz sure that the above method works if the DVDs are copy- > protected. > > my tip: use handbrake, choose and average bitrate of 1500kbps (or > more), select 2-pass encoding, select the movie language and > subtitles, and press "rip". easy. > the only issue with handbrake is that you lose the menus, you just > end up with an mpeg4 file. > > regards, > > alexandre > :: 17" 2.33ghz ic2d macbook pro / 2.0gb / 160gb / X.4.10 :: > :: 24" 2.33ghz ic2d imac / 2.0gb / 250gb / X.4.10 :: > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From lists at mac.com Sat Aug 4 13:27:55 2007 From: lists at mac.com (Neil) Date: Sat Aug 4 13:28:07 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> Message-ID: OK, nobody here has mentioned MacTheRipper. You mentioned having it, so why don't you just use that? It works on copy protected content. It preserves the DVD structure with menus and the original picture quality. It uses very little CPU power and it's fast. The files it produces are larger than the MP4 files made by HandBrake, but you have a slow CPU with a big hard drive, so it sounds like a good trade- off for you. Many people who like HandBrake for creating MP4 files, start by ripping in MacTheRipper to reduce the wear and tear on the DVD drive. Have you compared the 2-pass encoding to one-pass for videos? I have heard people say that they can't see the difference in quality.. Enjoy your movies. On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:46 PM, wilkinw wrote: > DVD2one is also a good choice. Have used it for a long time. It > costs but works great. > On Aug 4, 2007, at 1:05 PM, alexandre wrote: > >> >> On 4 ao?t 07, at 17:24, Daly Jessup wrote: >> >>> At 10:04 AM -0500 8/4/07, Dan A Currie wrote: >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before >>>> the kids wear them out or destroy them. >>>> >>>> Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. >>>> I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB >>>> storage, with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. >>> >>> The easiest way I know is with Toast Titanium. Put in the DVD, >>> click Copy and it will make an image, then invite you to insert a >>> blank DVD. >>> >> >> hi, >> i'm noz sure that the above method works if the DVDs are copy- >> protected. >> >> my tip: use handbrake, choose and average bitrate of 1500kbps (or >> more), select 2-pass encoding, select the movie language and >> subtitles, and press "rip". easy. >> the only issue with handbrake is that you lose the menus, you just >> end up with an mpeg4 file. >> >> regards, >> >> alexandre From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Aug 4 13:44:27 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Aug 4 13:44:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> Message-ID: <280DDE8C-532C-476A-96A0-987318055B67@myrealbox.com> On 4 Aug 2007, at 21:27, Neil wrote: > OK, nobody here has mentioned MacTheRipper. You mentioned having > it, so why don't you just use that? It works on copy protected > content. It preserves the DVD structure with menus and the > original picture quality. It uses very little CPU power and it's > fast. The files it produces are larger than the MP4 files made by > HandBrake ... Also the MP4 files made by HandBrake will not be playable on a standard DVD player. I believe that if you "rip" with a program that simply removes the CSS "region protection" then the original DVD structure can simply be copied onto a blank DVD-R which is viewable using a household player. CSS stands, I think, for "content scrambling system" and it's the reason you can't simply drag & drop files from a store-bought DVD onto a blank DVD-R. The scrambled content requires a decryption key which is written in an area of the disk inaccessible to home DVD writers. I hope this makes sense. Stroller. From macsys at mac.com Sat Aug 4 14:47:45 2007 From: macsys at mac.com (wilkinw) Date: Sat Aug 4 14:47:55 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> Message-ID: <27DBEE0F-F4A7-4B8C-8DA0-8869A11FB80A@mac.com> You'll need to make a small donation for the newest version, works better on a lot of the newer copy protected stuff. Although you can still get the older version which does work also, but you will find problems every once in a while on some of the more advance copy protected media. But yes MTR is an excellent piece of software. On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Neil wrote: > OK, nobody here has mentioned MacTheRipper. You mentioned having > it, so why don't you just use that? It works on copy protected > content. It preserves the DVD structure with menus and the > original picture quality. It uses very little CPU power and it's > fast. The files it produces are larger than the MP4 files made by > HandBrake, but you have a slow CPU with a big hard drive, so it > sounds like a good trade-off for you. > > Many people who like HandBrake for creating MP4 files, start by > ripping in MacTheRipper to reduce the wear and tear on the DVD drive. > > Have you compared the 2-pass encoding to one-pass for videos? I > have heard people say that they can't see the difference in quality.. > > Enjoy your movies. > > > On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:46 PM, wilkinw wrote: > >> DVD2one is also a good choice. Have used it for a long time. It >> costs but works great. >> On Aug 4, 2007, at 1:05 PM, alexandre wrote: >> >>> >>> On 4 ao?t 07, at 17:24, Daly Jessup wrote: >>> >>>> At 10:04 AM -0500 8/4/07, Dan A Currie wrote: >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy >>>>> before the kids wear them out or destroy them. >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. >>>>> I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB >>>>> storage, with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. >>>> >>>> The easiest way I know is with Toast Titanium. Put in the DVD, >>>> click Copy and it will make an image, then invite you to insert >>>> a blank DVD. >>>> >>> >>> hi, >>> i'm noz sure that the above method works if the DVDs are copy- >>> protected. >>> >>> my tip: use handbrake, choose and average bitrate of 1500kbps (or >>> more), select 2-pass encoding, select the movie language and >>> subtitles, and press "rip". easy. >>> the only issue with handbrake is that you lose the menus, you >>> just end up with an mpeg4 file. >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> alexandre > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 15:02:56 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:03:14 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Tim Collier wrote: > Strangely enough, I do have some experience with Office 2007 (PC > version), I installed Vista and bought Office along with it for use > on the Mac Pro. They've changed EVERYTHING and I might add NOT for > the better. After a couple of Word documents and then trying to > put together an Access Database, I threw up my hands in > disgust....now how many manuals am I going to have to read before I > get some inkling as to how to use this new "crap"? Welcome to the Macintosh. The Macintosh is different than Windows. As for learning how to "use this new crap", Word, and Office as a whole, are high end products. I don't know of any high end programs that can be used without some reading and/or some training. You can't expect to be proficient using Illustrator, Express, FinalCut Pro, Photoshop, GoLive, etc. without being trained to do so first. If you aren't prepared to learn how to use a high-end program, stay away from them. Stick to consumer level programs. Word isn't at all hard to use. In fact, it is quite easy to use. But it isn't intuitive to *learn* to use, just like any other high end program. Skipping the two or three hours of training that is required to learn to use Word proficiently, and instead spending countless hours everyday fighting with the program because you don't know how to use it is, IMHO, asinine. Unfortunately, I see people doing this all the time. It's a stupid as those people who go out and purchase the biggest, most powerful motorcycle they can find for their first-ever motorcycle. Or someone who would try to fly an airplane without ever having gone to flight school. And then complaining that these are too hard to learn to use. > From what I've read, the Mac Version for 2008 is going to be along > the same line...no thank you very much. Word is going to have its interface updated, but it won't be like the Windows version. Are you criticizing Mac/Word's new interface without having even seen it? Would you like to know how that sounds...? > Yesterday, I bought Mariner Write and Mariner Calc. They > handle .xls and .doc documents just fine and you can save them in > that format. I've now removed Word and Excel and am happily > Microsoft free. Perfect. That is probably exactly what you should have done for your level of work. > Just my experience here, there are alternatives to Office (that > also won't cost you an arm and a leg. If you need a high-end word processor, there is no alternative on the Macintosh for using Word. If you just need to write letters to grandma, there are a ton of choices, and Word is probably entirely inappropriate for your needs. > Be open minded and remember to "think different". Uh...yeah. You might want to be more open minded. > Oh and this email is written using Apple Mail, not Entourage. Good for you. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 15:15:54 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:16:37 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <3F3D0748-5887-4DD0-90FF-505DA7544BA5@macattorney.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:17 AM, Judi Sohn wrote: > Word is slow on Intel Macs mostly because it's running in > emulation. Period. Nope. Word runs fine when sorted out. Period. (I'm the head of a user group with well over 6,000 Mac-using attorneys. The overwhelming majority of them use Word, because it is really their only suitable choice. Just about all of them find Word's performance completely acceptable. I am receiving zero reports of speed issues with Word from them. Of course, many of them would prefer to be using an updated version of WP/Mac, but that's not the point.) Word ran slow on a PowerPC when it needed to be sorted out also. > 99.9% of users aren't going to read your tips and jump through > hoops to get acceptable performance. Then how smart are they? Hey, if you would rather bitch, whine and moan, instead of fixing things (which is not at all hard), and getting your work done, once again, that's fine. But what does that say about you, and how do you think that it looks to others? Meanwhile I'm sitting here with a copy of Microsoft Word that zips. Running in emulation. Period. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From mac at kapellos.com Sat Aug 4 15:28:17 2007 From: mac at kapellos.com (alexandre) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:28:30 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> <507615C9-2015-4E8A-A05C-5537F574AC2F@kapellos.com> <35F3E0CB-1CD1-4574-8D58-B480E0C75050@mac.com> Message-ID: <431B7680-5BB3-4A2F-B4C6-A7FD79AF057E@kapellos.com> > > Have you compared the 2-pass encoding to one-pass for videos? I > have heard people say that they can't see the difference in quality.. > no, not really. i think i got the settings for handbrake by reading through the forums on the developper's website. but i'm satisfied with the result. anyway, for me it's not so much about making copies of the dvds themselves but more about having a "digital" version of the movie, viewable on my laptop during a plane trip, for ex. alexandre :: 17" 2.33ghz ic2d macbook pro / 2.0gb / 160gb / X.4.10 :: :: 24" 2.33ghz ic2d imac / 2.0gb / 250gb / X.4.10 :: From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 15:33:26 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:33:38 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <204B5F46-DDD5-4682-B2CA-E45B03D31659@earthlink.net> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <204B5F46-DDD5-4682-B2CA-E45B03D31659@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <380FF333-569C-4A2E-BBD5-8A6635091411@macattorney.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Peter Saint James wrote: > Word usually works fairly well for me, but--as with most MS > products--I always have the feeling I'm fighting with the program > instead of getting cooperation from it. Have you ever had any training on how to use Word? If you have never been trained how to use Word, you will *always* be fighting with it. If you learn how to use it, you will find it easy to use and your productivity will go way up compared to using any other word processor. I highly recommend VTC online training. For instance, here is the link to their training for Microsoft Word 2004: http://www.vtc.com/products/office2004mac.htm Some of their training modules are free. You can get online training, with access to their *entire library* 24/7, for only $30/ month. > Every time I try to do something a little different, it gives me a > problem. Please give specific examples. I'm sure that I, or other Word users here, can help you with those problems. Is it that you have been trained to use those features, and they aren't working properly, or is it that you don't understand how to use these features and they simply don't work as you might expect? Personally, whenever I find that I need to do something different, I'm usually very pleasantly surprised to find (after a look through Word's Help, or a book on Word) that the program can do it, and that it does it well. The other day I needed to reformat a long list and make it alphabetical. I tried to do it in a third party application, and it took forever and didn't do a great job. I found that Word could do this (it isn't at all obvious just by looking in menus), and it did it instantly and perfectly. I often need to copy a bunch of stuff, and paste it back in in a certain order. Does anything else have as slick a feature as Word's Office Clipboard? I often skip around in a long document, editing it here, and then there, where different parts of the document relate to one another. No other word processor that I know of lets you instantly jump from one spot to another like Word's Go Back feature does. Word has countless features to help you get your work done quickly. The ones that I use are invaluable to me, and work perfectly. But you can only use these features if you know about them. You can only know about them if you have had some training on how to use Word. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From timjcollier at mac.com Sat Aug 4 15:35:02 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:35:10 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <4395AC70-7E0F-4863-8FB6-2D4D5F21EA0A@mac.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Tim Collier wrote: > >> Strangely enough, I do have some experience with Office 2007 (PC >> version), I installed Vista and bought Office along with it for >> use on the Mac Pro. They've changed EVERYTHING and I might add >> NOT for the better. After a couple of Word documents and then >> trying to put together an Access Database, I threw up my hands in >> disgust....now how many manuals am I going to have to read before >> I get some inkling as to how to use this new "crap"? > > Welcome to the Macintosh. The Macintosh is different than Windows. > > As for learning how to "use this new crap", Word, and Office as a > whole, are high end products. I don't know of any high end > programs that can be used without some reading and/or some > training. You can't expect to be proficient using Illustrator, > Express, FinalCut Pro, Photoshop, GoLive, etc. without being > trained to do so first. If you aren't prepared to learn how to use > a high-end program, stay away from them. Stick to consumer level > programs. > > Excuse me, I've been using the Mac Platform since 2001. I may not have been using it as LONG as some of you but I certainly know quite a bit about it and how the various applications on the Mac work. Excuse also the fact that since I switched over to using only Intel based Macs and have noted how much faster and more responsive a program written as a Universal Binary runs and reacts, that I am somewhat put off with any company that can't have the decency to update their software to suit MY computing needs. While many of you have expressed your various NEED to continue to use Word and other Office 2004 applications, I do not have that need. I used to use Outlook, Word, Excel, Access, PowerPoint et al, back before I switched, once again in 2001 (That six years for anybody who can't do the math), as it was the accepted standard on any PC. We Mac users, however, have a CHOICE in regard to what software we use. I have chosen to abandon Office 2004 and am now using Mariner Write and Mariner Calc as VERY ACCEPTABLE substitutes for Word and Excel. So, Mr. Singer, while I appreciate your concern that I might not understand the workings of a computing platform that I have been using for the past 6 years, let me assure you that I am fully aware on what is going on behind the scenes. Microsoft is concerned that their new version of Office (which I have seen already in Vista--that being Office 2007) might not function as well as they would like. Believe me, having seen Office 2007 running in Vista, I am none too pleased with the MAJOR changes that have taken place. I hope that you are aware that many documents written using Office 2003 (PC edition) are no longer compatible with Office 2007 because of the restructuring that they have done? I believe the Mac Community will be in an uproar when Office 2008 or 2009 or 2010 actually comes out and learns that nothing that they previously composed is compatible. So, I will close by stating that I do "think different" and will not be one of the sheep being herded over to Office 200? by the likes of you. -- Tim Collier Mac Pro 2.66 http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From aaron at macuser.fastmail.fm Sat Aug 4 15:45:01 2007 From: aaron at macuser.fastmail.fm (Aaron) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:45:39 2007 Subject: [X4U] DVD copying In-Reply-To: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> References: <46B4958E.1010307@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <20070804224516.C815C23020@heartbeat2.messagingengine.com> Copy from DVD to hard disk with MTR. Then, with Toast 7.1.2, choose "DVD-Video from VIDEO_TS" and check "Fit-to-DVD video compression". The compression will only be used if needed to fit onto a single-layer disc, presuming that's what you're using. You could use double-layer discs to avoid compression but (1) they're many times more expensive than single-layer discs, (2) they're more error-prone and (3) they write at much slower speeds. Some burners won't handle them at all. And, in most cases, you won't notice the difference in quality anyway. - Aaron >Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:04:46 -0500 >From: Dan A Currie > >Hello All, > >I have several older DVD movies that I would like to copy before the kids wear them out or destroy them. > >Suggestions for the best (read simplest) method of copying them. > >I am running an MDD 1.25 dualie, 10.4.9, 2 GB RAM, 300 GB storage, with Toast 7 and Mac the Ripper 1.7.1. > >Help! > >Dan Currie From timjcollier at mac.com Sat Aug 4 15:50:28 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 15:50:40 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3F3D0748-5887-4DD0-90FF-505DA7544BA5@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3F3D0748-5887-4DD0-90FF-505DA7544BA5@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <5B874448-0990-4E07-8693-6009FCF097CA@mac.com> On Aug 4, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:17 AM, Judi Sohn wrote: > >> Word is slow on Intel Macs mostly because it's running in >> emulation. Period. > > Nope. Word runs fine when sorted out. Period. > > (I'm the head of a user group with well over 6,000 Mac-using > attorneys. The overwhelming majority of them use Word, because it > is really their only suitable choice. Just about all of them find > Word's performance completely acceptable. I am receiving zero > reports of speed issues with Word from them. Of course, many of > them would prefer to be using an updated version of WP/Mac, but > that's not the point.) > > Word ran slow on a PowerPC when it needed to be sorted out also. Mr. Singer: While I'm certain that you are a very wise man (in your own way), being a Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions) and all. Also your sig file would only allow us to assume that you are also an attorney, you do NOT speak for all Mac users. We will do what we wish to do. You can lecture us until your fingers being to bleed on your keyboard, but you aren't going to change anybody's mind. So, why don't you just give up? Accept that everybody is an individual and that the right choice in software is the one that THAT person makes for his or herself. While we all appreciate your input, you input is beginning to fall on deaf ears and your beginning to sound like a fool. Have a nice day. -- Tim Collier Mac Pro 2.66 http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From lstnmt at bresnan.net Sat Aug 4 16:00:36 2007 From: lstnmt at bresnan.net (Jens Selvig) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:00:46 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <5B874448-0990-4E07-8693-6009FCF097CA@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3F3D0748-5887-4DD0-90FF-505DA7544BA5@macattorney.com> <5B874448-0990-4E07-8693-6009FCF097CA@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D76CBC1-05C0-41EA-96FC-0AE47390124A@bresnan.net> Lets keep civility alive and well on this list. Jens Jens Selvig ...lost in Montana... lstnmt(at)bresnan.net On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > > On Aug 4, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > >> >> On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:17 AM, Judi Sohn wrote: >> >>> Word is slow on Intel Macs mostly because it's running in >>> emulation. Period. >> >> Nope. Word runs fine when sorted out. Period. >> >> (I'm the head of a user group with well over 6,000 Mac-using >> attorneys. The overwhelming majority of them use Word, because it >> is really their only suitable choice. Just about all of them find >> Word's performance completely acceptable. I am receiving zero >> reports of speed issues with Word from them. Of course, many of >> them would prefer to be using an updated version of WP/Mac, but >> that's not the point.) >> >> Word ran slow on a PowerPC when it needed to be sorted out also. > Mr. Singer: > While I'm certain that you are a very wise man (in your own way), > being a Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th > editions) and all. Also your sig file would only allow us to > assume that you are also an attorney, you do NOT speak for all Mac > users. > We will do what we wish to do. You can lecture us until your > fingers being to bleed on your keyboard, but you aren't going to > change anybody's mind. So, why don't you just give up? > Accept that everybody is an individual and that the right choice in > software is the one that THAT person makes for his or herself. > While we all appreciate your input, you input is beginning to fall > on deaf ears and your beginning to sound like a fool. > Have a nice day. > -- > Tim Collier > Mac Pro 2.66 > http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 16:21:20 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:21:30 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <4395AC70-7E0F-4863-8FB6-2D4D5F21EA0A@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> <4395AC70-7E0F-4863-8FB6-2D4D5F21EA0A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > While many of you have expressed your various NEED to continue to > use Word and other Office 2004 applications, I do not have that need. Exactly. And that's fine for you. You don't need a high end word processor. But others of us do. And despite your Microsoft bigotry and exhortations to use non-Microsoft products, we don't have the option of switching to a consumer class word processor. > I used to use Outlook, Word, Excel, Access, PowerPoint et al, back > before I switched, once again in 2001 (That six years for anybody > who can't do the math), as it was the accepted standard on any PC. > We Mac users, however, have a CHOICE in regard to what software we > use. Only if there is software that meets our needs. There are a large number of choices for writing letters to our grandmas on. Which is nice. There isn't a choice if you are someone who is writing for a major publisher, a business person who must often collaborate with other professionals on a document, or if you write for a living and depend on any number of advanced features to make your work easier. > I have chosen to abandon Office 2004 and am now using Mariner Write > and Mariner Calc as VERY ACCEPTABLE substitutes for Word and Excel. Acceptable for *you*. Because your needs are apparently only that of a casual user, not that of a professional. > So, Mr. Singer, while I appreciate your concern that I might not > understand the workings of a computing platform that I have been > using for the past 6 years, let me assure you that I am fully aware > on what is going on behind the scenes. Yes, I'm very impressed by your knowledge. > Microsoft is concerned that their new version of Office (which I > have seen already in Vista--that being Office 2007) might not > function as well as they would like. Believe me, having seen > Office 2007 running in Vista, I am none too pleased with the MAJOR > changes that have taken place. Vista is not the Macintosh, and thankfully, never will be. Not even the Vista version of Word is the same as the Macintosh version. Word/ Mac's upcoming new interface isn't slated to be the same as Vista's. http://www.tuaw.com/photos/office-2008-for-the-mac-screenshots/ > I hope that you are aware that many documents written using Office > 2003 (PC edition) are no longer compatible with Office 2007 because > of the restructuring that they have done? Yes, I know all about the new ".docx/Open XML" format. > I believe the Mac Community will be in an uproar when Office 2008 > or 2009 or 2010 actually comes out and learns that nothing that > they previously composed is compatible. There are already translators available, and Office 2008 hasn't even been released yet. OpenXML, Microsoft's new file format will be included in the next version of Office/Mac, rumored to be released next January. But Microsoft has already released a beta file translator for Mac users: So far the beta file translator isn't great, but since OpenXML is an open standard, others have already jumped in and are offering their own translators: - NeoOffice 2.1(free and open source) includes good OpenXML translators. This free product will do a fair job: - docx (free) There is also a commercial converter: - docXconverter ($20) - There is a free widget version of docXconverter: > So, I will close by stating that I do "think different" and will > not be one of the sheep being herded over to Office 200? by the > likes of you. I'm not at all trying to get you to use Office. Quite the contrary. I don't think that your needs are sophisticated enough for you to need to use Office. I think that you should stick with simple programs that are appropriate for your needs. On the other hand, I don't think that you are qualified to be telling people who *need* a high end word processor that they have other Macintosh alternatives. Word has abilities that are vital to many business users that are not currently offered in any other Macintosh word processor. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 16:23:15 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:23:21 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <5B874448-0990-4E07-8693-6009FCF097CA@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3F3D0748-5887-4DD0-90FF-505DA7544BA5@macattorney.com> <5B874448-0990-4E07-8693-6009FCF097CA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > Mr. Singer: > While I'm certain that you are a very wise man (in your own way), > being a Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th > editions) and all. Also your sig file would only allow us to > assume that you are also an attorney, you do NOT speak for all Mac > users. > We will do what we wish to do. You can lecture us until your > fingers being to bleed on your keyboard, but you aren't going to > change anybody's mind. So, why don't you just give up? > Accept that everybody is an individual and that the right choice in > software is the one that THAT person makes for his or herself. > While we all appreciate your input, you input is beginning to fall > on deaf ears and your beginning to sound like a fool. > Have a nice day. > -- A typical argument from someone too stupid to make a good argument. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Aug 4 16:26:43 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:26:49 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> Message-ID: On 4 Aug 2007, at 23:02, Randy B. Singer wrote: > On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Tim Collier wrote: > >> Strangely enough, I do have some experience with Office 2007 (PC >> version), I installed Vista and bought Office along with it for >> use on the Mac Pro. They've changed EVERYTHING and I might add >> NOT for the better. ... > > Welcome to the Macintosh. The Macintosh is different than Windows. I think you might have misread Mr Collier's first paragraph. Stroller. From timjcollier at mac.com Sat Aug 4 16:39:32 2007 From: timjcollier at mac.com (Tim Collier) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:39:43 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> Message-ID: <3C7A095C-050D-4AFB-B71D-3F2F73F6E30F@mac.com> You know my specialty is psychiatric nursing and I have dealt with many individuals, over the years, who are of the opinion that theirs is the only point of view. They carry on and on, and I've found the best way to calm them down is just to ignore them. Usually after about 5 minutes or so, they stop as they no longer have an audience. So, as of now, I'm going to ignore Mr Singer, thus putting an end to the USELESS, IDIOTIC and ENDLESS debate? Tim On Aug 4, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Stroller wrote: > > On 4 Aug 2007, at 23:02, Randy B. Singer wrote: >> On Aug 4, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Tim Collier wrote: >> >>> Strangely enough, I do have some experience with Office 2007 (PC >>> version), I installed Vista and bought Office along with it for >>> use on the Mac Pro. They've changed EVERYTHING and I might add >>> NOT for the better. ... >> >> Welcome to the Macintosh. The Macintosh is different than Windows. > > I think you might have misread Mr Collier's first paragraph. > > Stroller. > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u -- Tim Collier Mac Pro 2.66 http://www.timcolliermiami.com/ From randy at macattorney.com Sat Aug 4 16:52:46 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:52:57 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: <3C7A095C-050D-4AFB-B71D-3F2F73F6E30F@mac.com> References: <67E1D04D-3579-4309-AA06-5816A1B4292B@mac.com> <4DB55421-5352-45F3-8973-F3A7E950B7E0@mac.com> <1AA694D9-DAB4-4C3F-A62E-F342BB1A12B8@macattorney.com> <2AE9D7AD-1415-4869-8FFF-F055311EF834@gmail.com> <3F4649AF-A861-40EB-B2AD-A75A0191701A@macattorney.com> <3BFF4C23-29E0-40C8-9BE7-7A86E6F71191@bellsouth.net> <81F9F7E4-0842-4117-B836-237FF4251ECE@macattorney.com> <3C7A095C-050D-4AFB-B71D-3F2F73F6E30F@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Tim Collier wrote: > You know my specialty is psychiatric nursing and I have dealt with > many individuals, over the years, who are of the opinion that > theirs is the only point of view. They carry on and on, and I've > found the best way to calm them down is just to ignore them. > Usually after about 5 minutes or so, they stop as they no longer > have an audience. > So, as of now, I'm going to ignore Mr Singer, thus putting an end > to the USELESS, IDIOTIC and ENDLESS debate? I'm happy to ignore you also. Unless you continue to make asinine, and ill-informed statements. Then I'll correct you, as I have done previously. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Aug 4 18:32:13 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sat Aug 4 18:32:27 2007 Subject: [X4U] MS Office 2008 delayed In-Reply-To: References: