From jwarms at mac.com Sun Dec 2 07:55:34 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Sun Dec 2 22:49:32 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues (Continued) Message-ID: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> Continuing from my earlier post. 3) Printing. (Repeating from my first post) I'm using a MacBook with Leopard on a new 250GB HDD. The printing arrangement stays as it was under Tiger. I have a Brother HL2040 printer (that I call "CarlyPrint") upstairs connected the first model iBook that's running 10.3.9, with printer sharing turned on. This "just worked". I had been printing through this printer from my MacBook and my wife's PowerBook, both running Tiger. And the only thing that's changed is that Leopard is now running on the MacBook. The MacBook no longer finds CarlyPrint. Leopard Help says it (Leopard) can find a shared printer on a local Mac if it's running 10.4 (Tiger) or later. So the working printer sharing arrangement is kaput. Had I known this, it would have been a show-stopper. Two show-stoppers, one annoyance. Now, I have to consider reverting to Tiger, and eBay'ing Leopard. Of course, history says I should wait for 10.5.2. Wish me luck. Jon From jwarms at mac.com Sun Dec 2 07:26:27 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Mon Dec 3 02:07:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues Message-ID: I just installed a 250GB drive and 10.5.1 on my MacBook, that had been running 10.4.11 on a 100GB drive very happily. The drive is fine but, so far, I'm an unhappy Leonard switcher. I can only relate two problems, and one annoyance, but -to me- they're biggies. 1) The annoyance: I put the old 100GB drive, with 10.4.11, in an external USB housing. I was pleased to discover the drive was still bootable, and I could run the MacBook from the housing. But when I installed Leopard (from the DVD), the Mac transfer program specifically said I had to connect the old drive with a Firewire cable. So I copied the old drive to a Firewire drive I had, and then ran the transfer program. THE TRANSFER PROGRAM WAS HAPPY WITH THE USB- CONNECTED DRIVE. Bringing over the Firewire drive had been unnecessary! The transfer from the USB drive "just worked". Why didn't Apple check and fix the instructions? 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like Macs always did. I found an about:config change that was supposed to fix this, but it didn't help. 3) I'll relate this in another post. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 2 23:11:34 2007 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Mon Dec 3 02:28:38 2007 Subject: [X4U] Mac OS X 10.5.1, iPhoto 7.1.1, and Nikon Coolpix L11 Message-ID: I upgraded my wife's MacBook to 10.5.1 (previously running 10.5), it had already been upgraded to iPhoto 7.1.1. Now when she plugs in her Nikon Coolpix L11 it won't allow her to import the photo's, it says it can't understand the format, yet if I go to File->Import to Library, it will bring them in just fine. Everything worked fine with 10.5 and 7.1.1. Does anyone have any ideas about this and how to fix it? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From randy at macattorney.com Sun Dec 2 23:42:11 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Mon Dec 3 02:37:47 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues (Continued) In-Reply-To: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> References: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> Message-ID: <97E27364-84EF-4D1F-912E-BBE3631B5BCB@macattorney.com> On Dec 2, 2007, at 7:55 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > I have a Brother HL2040 printer (that I call "CarlyPrint") > upstairs connected the first model iBook that's running > 10.3.9, with printer sharing turned on. This "just worked". > I had been printing through this printer from my > MacBook and my wife's PowerBook, both running > Tiger. And the only thing that's changed is that Leopard > is now running on the MacBook. > > The MacBook no longer finds CarlyPrint. For some reason, when upgrading to a new major release of the Mac OS, it is sometimes necessary to delete the printer setup for your printer in Print & Fax preferences, 1. Open System Preferences, click Print & Fax, and then click Printing 2. Select the printer in the Printer List, and click the Delete (-) button. 3. Download the latest driver and installer for your printer from: http://otiel.notlong.com Now reinstall the driver, and add your printer again to get it to work: 1. Follow the directions that came with your printer to set it up and install the necessary software on your computer. 2. Make sure your printer is connected properly to your computer with a USB cable and turned on. 3. Open a document to print, and then choose File > Print. 4. Choose the printer from the Printer pop-up menu. 5. If you don't find your printer, choose Add Printer from the Printer pop-up menu, and click More Printers. Choose your printer's type from the pop-up menu in the dialog that appears, select the printer, and then click Add. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From jessup at san.rr.com Mon Dec 3 04:40:24 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Mon Dec 3 04:44:18 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10 26 -0500 12/2/07, Jon Warms wrote: >1) The annoyance: I put the old 100GB drive, with 10.4.11, >in an external USB housing. I was pleased to discover the >drive was still bootable, and I could run the MacBook from >the housing. But when I installed Leopard (from the DVD), >the Mac transfer program specifically said I had to connect >the old drive with a Firewire cable. So I copied the old >drive to a Firewire drive I had, and then ran the transfer >program. > >THE TRANSFER PROGRAM WAS HAPPY WITH THE USB- >CONNECTED DRIVE. Bringing over the Firewire drive >had been unnecessary! The transfer from the USB drive >"just worked". Why didn't Apple check and fix the >instructions? I would assume it's because with some computers, the USB drive would not work. So they just give the instructions they know will work for all users. I hope the "autofill" of a URL returns. I note a number of complaints about that from others. Daly ---------------------- From jessup at san.rr.com Mon Dec 3 04:43:50 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Mon Dec 3 04:44:40 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues (Continued) In-Reply-To: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> References: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10 55 -0500 12/2/07, Jon Warms wrote: >I have a Brother HL2040 printer (that I call "CarlyPrint") >upstairs connected the first model iBook that's running >10.3.9, with printer sharing turned on. >The MacBook no longer finds CarlyPrint. Leopard Help >says it (Leopard) can find a shared printer on a >local Mac if it's running 10.4 (Tiger) or later. So the >working printer sharing arrangement is kaput. > >Had I known this, it would have been a show-stopper. Why don't you update the iBook to Tiger? It's telling you that the printer sharing will work on a local Mac running Tiger. The solution seems obvious. Make it run Tiger. Daly ---------------------- From Robert at Ameeti.net Mon Dec 3 05:16:59 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Mon Dec 3 05:18:13 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:26 AM -0500, 12/2/07, Jon Warms wrote: >The transfer from the USB drive "just worked". Why didn't Apple >check and fix the instructions? Because it would not have 'just worked' for many users. Not all computers will boot from a USB drive. While it worked for you, it would not have worked for others. >Old behavior: the browser would automagically add the "www." and the >".com". This is a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a >show-stopper. Wow. You'd have chosen to not upgrade to Leopard because you don't want to have to type '.com' ? Typing '.com' is a major PITA? You are either very young or very old. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti The days of the digital watch are numbered. -- Tom Stoppard <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From chowse at charter.net Mon Dec 3 09:20:29 2007 From: chowse at charter.net (Charles Howse) Date: Mon Dec 3 09:20:46 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> On Dec 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". > I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when > I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and > hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search > page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser > would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is > a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. > > It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. > Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an > old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it > sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right > next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like > Macs always did. The same thing is happening here, I'm on Charter. Betcha it's something to do with Leopard. -- Thanks, Charles http://bubbabbq.homeunix.net From macmonster at myrealbox.com Mon Dec 3 10:01:21 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Mon Dec 3 17:35:50 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2 Dec 2007, at 15:26, Jon Warms wrote: > ... > 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". > I'm connected using Verizon DSL. ... > Old behavior: the browser > would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is > a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. It's debatable whether this is good, correct or even valid behaviour. I appreciate this behaviour is convenient for the majority of users, but hostames don't need to end with .com - I connect to machines on my LAN as "compaq", "emachine" and the router is called "pornpipe". In fact these machines are all in the stroller.uk.eu.org domain, but I believe it's correct for me to be able to address them using their short-hostname (domainless-hostname?) - it's certainly valid to have one-word hostnames in any case - and it would be a pain for me to have .com incorrectly added (and wrong of the o/s to do so). Any website that requires a www. prefix in this day & age is [redacted] stuck in the 90's, dude. Like retro! > Now, for example, when > I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and > hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search > page (with jr.com as the first entry). > ... > It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. > Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an > old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it > sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right > next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like > Macs always did. I believe this is indeed a Verizon bug, and blimey!12 seconds of Googling confirms this to be the case: http://www.google.com/search?&q=verizon+dns Verizon shouldn't give you a webpage when a DNS request is invalid, it should return an error. As far as the browser is concerned the webpage has loaded correctly. I believe you can ask Verizon to disable this "service" but if you just want to test then one of the blog entries in those search results mentions OpenDNS - changing your DNS settings to that of a working DNS server should allow the browser to behave correctly. Finally, I'd have thought that after you've typed http://jr.com in your browser's addressbar just once it'd be remembered in your history and that by typing "jr" in there in future it'd be listed in the autocomplete box that pops up - I have one site, for example, that I access by typing "an",down-arrow,enter, although I have to admit that this address is one of my bookmarks, which you may consider "cheating". Stroller. From colin at eleventhvolume.com Mon Dec 3 10:14:52 2007 From: colin at eleventhvolume.com (Colin) Date: Mon Dec 3 18:57:48 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jon, I'm sorry I can't be of any help with your Panther issues. However, I'm interested in your experiences of installing a 250gb drive on your laptop. I need to do the same thing (2.5gb left on my MacBook Pro 120gb drive). I'd much appreciate learning whether you did the install yourself or who did it for you, if it was a painless experience and how I can find out what drive I should be buying - many thanks for any advice you can give. All the best, Colin ______________ Eleventh Volume Hard Format On 2 Dec 2007, at 15:26, Jon Warms wrote: > I just installed a 250GB drive and 10.5.1 on my MacBook, that had > been running 10.4.11 on a 100GB drive very happily. > The drive is fine but, so far, I'm an unhappy Leonard switcher. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20071203/da49644b/attachment-0001.html From macmonster at myrealbox.com Mon Dec 3 09:37:06 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Mon Dec 3 19:04:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] Dell printer driver for Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <2eba7d5d5f41f1103d413a17c736e951@telus.net> <4B52F5BD-26DA-4740-AC75-BACB04ED5925@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <2AE9FFD4-EFF4-4989-8A9A-ABE068D03098@myrealbox.com> On 1 Dec 2007, at 01:15, Daly Jessup wrote: > > Are you actually able to configure a printer through CUPS now? I have to admit that I haven't tried it properly on a Mac; I think I managed to add my mother's Brother MFC network printer using the page, but that was in desperation when Brother's official GUI installation utilities were failing, so I can't warranty how well it worked. I've used CUPS a little more under Linux but even then a USB printer has already been automagically detected by the time I've visited the page. > As far as I can figure out, Tiger killed CUPS... It's certainly present here on 10.4. I'd be surprised if the web- admin interface is completely impotent. > ... I've been trying to access my old LaserWriter 16/600 through > CUPS but get error messages when I click the Configure Printer link. A network LaserJet 4000 & a USB Canon iP3000 both allow me to follow that link, but again I have to confess I'm not messing with them further. > It may be that some geeks have made workarounds, but if so, I can't > understand them. Here's what it says at the CUPS site (scroll to > the darkend rectangle under "Binaries" at the middle of the page: > I think this is simply because upgrading the version of CUPS manually breaks Printer Setup Utility & whatnot, the Apple version of CUPS (1.1?) being taken from an older release of the cups.org one (now 1.2 / 1.3). There's an article here about using CUPS 1.2.8 with Mac OS X 10.4.8. It's all a bit moot, since we don't seem to have the right model number for M. Milligan's Dell printer. I'm extremely confident one won't find official Mac drivers for Dell printers, nor any other kind of support at Dell's site, so it's a fairly general statement I make when I say that CUPS is generally the direction I'd look in, were I in M's position. Stroller. From lists at sofstats.com Mon Dec 3 15:31:21 2007 From: lists at sofstats.com (Rod Buchanan) Date: Mon Dec 3 19:22:39 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E1F0629-C89D-49B6-A8E6-B4F3FBA7CE83@sofstats.com> On Dec 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". > I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when > I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and > hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search > page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser > would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is > a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. Don't blame Apple -- blame your ISP. I have the same problem at home (I'm on Charter -- they started doing the same thing about 4-6 months ago), but at work (we have our own connection to the internet) typing "jr" resolves to http://www.jr.com. Running 10.5.1 on all Macs. My guess is the ISP is intercepting the error and redirecting to their search page. More income for them, less convenient for us. -- Rod "War is only a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." -- Thomas Mann From overloadinfo at charter.net Mon Dec 3 09:59:09 2007 From: overloadinfo at charter.net (Konrad Waibel) Date: Mon Dec 3 19:25:51 2007 Subject: domain guessing [was] [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> References: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> Message-ID: this behavior began for me in July 2005 when I subscribed to Charter Cable. I was using 10.2.8/Safari [?]. Still happens to me now using 10.4.11/Safari 3.0.4 and Charter. I assumed, and still do, this was something programmed by Charter directing me to their page to make more money from their advertisers. K. ------ On Dec 3, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Charles Howse wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > >> 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". >> I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when >> I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and >> hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search >> page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser >> would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is >> a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. >> >> It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. >> Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an >> old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it >> sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right >> next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like >> Macs always did. > > > The same thing is happening here, I'm on Charter. > Betcha it's something to do with Leopard. > > -- > Thanks, > Charles > http://bubbabbq.homeunix.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From jwarms at mac.com Mon Dec 3 11:46:41 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Mon Dec 3 21:33:30 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issue 2 - Kaput No Longer! In-Reply-To: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> References: <8E8248CE-335B-4996-898D-648ADA0FD51A@mac.com> Message-ID: <253B7293-58F2-45BC-9B41-35BB22C95CFC@mac.com> After doing some more research, with some prodding by Randy, I found this bulletin: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306984 which contains a Terminal command that enables Leopard to see printers under Mac OS 10.3 (and others). I followed the procedure and the printers on my 10.3.9 print server are now visible on the Leopard machine. Summary: Out of the box, Leopard will only see printers on networked Macs running 10.4 and 10.5. (And of course it will see other printers as well.) By following the procedure in article 306874, Leopard will find and add printers on Macs running earlier versions. Count: One down, one remaining (the missing "domain guessing.) COME ON, 10.5.2!! Jon ========== On Dec 2, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > I have a Brother HL2040 printer (that I call "CarlyPrint") > upstairs connected the first model iBook that's running > 10.3.9, with printer sharing turned on. This "just worked". > I had been printing through this printer from my > MacBook and my wife's PowerBook, both running > Tiger. And the only thing that's changed is that Leopard > is now running on the MacBook. > > The MacBook no longer finds CarlyPrint. Leopard Help > says it (Leopard) can find a shared printer on a > local Mac if it's running 10.4 (Tiger) or later. So the > working printer sharing arrangement is kaput. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Mon Dec 3 10:06:12 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:00:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 Dec 2007, at 13:16, Robert Ameeti wrote: > At 10:26 AM -0500, 12/2/07, Jon Warms wrote: > >> The transfer from the USB drive "just worked". Why didn't Apple >> check and fix the instructions? > > Because it would not have 'just worked' for many users. Not all > computers will boot from a USB drive. While it worked for you, it > would not have worked for others. I was tempted to make a similar reply, but: - I'm pretty sure the USB / firewire booting issue is related to PPC versus Intel machines. - he's not trying to boot with it (I don't think) only transfer files. So, to be fair, the installer could recognise whether the machine's capable of transferring via USB and only complain if it's not. And Mr Warms only listed this as an "annoyance" - as a grumpy old man myself I believe that he's entitled to do that. ;) >> Old behavior: the browser would automagically add the "www." and >> the ".com". This is a major PITA; had I known, it would have been >> a show-stopper. > > Wow. You'd have chosen to not upgrade to Leopard because you don't > want to have to type '.com' ? Typing '.com' is a major PITA? You > are either very young or very old. +1. Stroller. From jwarms at mac.com Mon Dec 3 21:25:23 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:06:56 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> I'd like to thank [most of] the posters that responded to my two Leopard Issues postings. 1) The post (and the poster) questioning whether I'm old or young is irrelevant (and worse). The domain-guessing feature of every previous Mac browser (that I've used) is a valuable part of the Mac interface, and one that makes Mac easier and quicker to use than the dark side. I hope Apple agrees with me about its importance and restores it soon. 2) Yeah, I thought it was Verizon playing tricks. Maybe it is, but the PowerBook running Tiger and earlier versions of Firefox and Safari uses domain-guessing like it always did. More telling, when I boot the MacBook into Tiger and run the older browser versions, domain-guessing also works. Obviously, something is happening on my MacBook, not on Verizon's network. I don't understand what; I wish someone knowledgeable could help me. 3) BTW, I know you can add .com by using the command key, and all the other key combos as well. Yet domain-guessing has always worked with the return key alone. 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL (the way I typed it). 5) Sorry to say, don't use my drive-changing as a guide for the MacBook Pro. One reason I opted for the MB was the incredible drive-replacement ease (Thanks, Apple). I have replaced the HDD on a friend's MBP; it can be done, but while it's easy on the MacBook, it's difficult on the MBP. I used the excellent guides in iFixit.com. 6) Thanks Apple, for a great machine and an improving operating system. From douglass at cs.clemson.edu Mon Dec 3 12:07:50 2007 From: douglass at cs.clemson.edu (John Douglass - User) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:08:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> References: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> Message-ID: <9566BAB0-EE55-4189-A88C-232B1BEDEF72@cs.clemson.edu> On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Charles Howse wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Jon Warms wrote: > >> 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". >> I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when >> I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and >> hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search >> page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser >> would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is >> a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. >> >> It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. >> Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an >> old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it >> sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right >> next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like >> Macs always did. > > > The same thing is happening here, I'm on Charter. > Betcha it's something to do with Leopard. Doesn't happen for me on any of my Leopard boxes under Safari, Firefox, or Camino. I do use statically allocated DNS servers (at work and at home). There have been several complaints in the Apple discussion forums regarding this exact behavior but no one has nailed it down to a single issue. Have you tried logging in under the Guest account in Leopard to see if the behavior exists there? Have you made any other changes at the same time (upgrading your wireless network, changing ISPs, etc.)? While the problem seems somewhat prevalent it is not simply Leopard because it is not an issue for everyone (I've checked with other Leopard users in my organization as well). Other suggestions: - redo network settings from scratch - reset Safari (I don't see how this could help with other browsers) -- John From jwarms at mac.com Mon Dec 3 21:36:24 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:09:36 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issue 2- Fixed! In-Reply-To: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <1EFC24A1-893B-407B-A5DE-3C6986AB8F67@mac.com> After doing some more research, with some prodding by Randy, I found this bulletin: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306984 which contains a Terminal command that enables Leopard to see printers under Mac OS 10.3 (and others). I followed the procedure and the printers on my 10.3.9 print server are now visible on the Leopard machine. Summary: Out of the box, Leopard will only see printers on networked Macs running 10.4 and 10.5. (And of course it will see other printers as well.) By following the procedure in article 306874, Leopard will find and add printers on Macs running earlier versions. Count: One down, one remaining (the missing "domain guessing.) From edgraf at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 21:38:08 2007 From: edgraf at earthlink.net (Ed Graf) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:12:18 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> On Dec 3, 2007, at 6:58 PM, x4u-request@listserver.themacintoshguy.com wrote: >> It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. >> Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an >> old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it >> sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right >> next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like >> Macs always did. > > > The same thing is happening here, I'm on Charter. > Betcha it's something to do with Leopard. 10.5.1 on Mac Mini, Safari 3.0.4, typing jr and hitting return gets an automatic http://www.jr.com. Typing del and hitting return gets me the Delta Airlines website, neither of which I have visited going back years, "Delta" I have never visited. Perhaps Leopard is not the problem. Notice that was using earthlink.net in Los Angeles as my ISP. Comcast in Philadelphia are a bunch of morons and I can try the same next week with a computer there, and likely get some ISP in Borneo. From jessup at san.rr.com Mon Dec 3 20:48:03 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Mon Dec 3 22:31:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] Dell printer driver for Mac? In-Reply-To: <2AE9FFD4-EFF4-4989-8A9A-ABE068D03098@myrealbox.com> References: <2eba7d5d5f41f1103d413a17c736e951@telus.net> <4B52F5BD-26DA-4740-AC75-BACB04ED5925@myrealbox.com> <2AE9FFD4-EFF4-4989-8A9A-ABE068D03098@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: At 17 37 +0000 12/3/07, Stroller wrote: >On 1 Dec 2007, at 01:15, Daly Jessup wrote: >> >>As far as I can figure out, Tiger killed CUPS... > >It's certainly present here on 10.4. I'd be surprised if the >web-admin interface is completely impotent. It's present, all right, but I'd be interested in hearing what happens if you click the "Configure" button (or it's called something like that). When I hit Configure Printer on the LaserWriter, I get "You don't have permission to access the resource on this server." >A network LaserJet 4000 & a USB Canon iP3000 both allow me to follow >that link, but again I have to confess I'm not messing with them >further. Follow what link? To their Configure page? If so, you're getting further than I am. >I think this is simply because upgrading the version of CUPS >manually breaks Printer Setup Utility & whatnot, the Apple version >of CUPS (1.1?) being taken from an older release of the cups.org one >(now 1.2 / 1.3). There's an article here > >about using CUPS 1.2.8 with Mac OS X 10.4.8. I'm really going to drop this thread, because I don't know enough about it to describe clearly, or comment usefully, about what I"m seeing, but others seem to be able to telnet to their printer, or find out its IP address, or get to it with a browser, or access it with CUPS, and I"m denied all those access points. I don't know why and don't know how to find out why. I have exhausted Google as a resource for anything I can remotely understand. If it were terribly important to me, at this point I would actually find and call in a consultant, because I don't get why others can see it and my efforts either time out or end in a message that I don't have permission, or that the browser can't open the page "because it can't open the page". >It's all a bit moot, since we don't seem to have the right model >number for M. Milligan's Dell printer. I'm extremely confident one >won't find official Mac drivers for Dell printers, nor any other >kind of support at Dell's site, so it's a fairly general statement I >make when I say that CUPS is generally the direction I'd look in, >were I in M's position. I hope it works for him. Daly ---------------------- From hdmorganjr at att.net Mon Dec 3 22:29:46 2007 From: hdmorganjr at att.net (Howard Morgan) Date: Mon Dec 3 23:59:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: X4U Digest, Vol 40, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: I'm using Firefox 3.0b1. When I enter "jr" in the address bar it is correctly expanded to http://www.jr.com/. Hope this helps. On Mon,Dec 3, 2007, at 8:58 PM, x4u-request@listserver.themacintoshguy.com wrote: > 2) Problem 1: All browsers no longer do "domain guessing". > I'm connected using Verizon DSL. Now, for example, when > I type "jr" in the address bar (for jr.com, which is J&R) and > hit "return", the browser loads the Verizon-Yahoo search > page (with jr.com as the first entry). Old behavior: the browser > would automagically add the "www." and the ".com". This is > a major PITA; had I known, it would have been a show-stopper. > > It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. > Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an > old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it > sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right > next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like > Macs always did. Howard Morgan hdmorganjr@att.net From colin at eleventhvolume.com Mon Dec 3 23:24:08 2007 From: colin at eleventhvolume.com (Colin) Date: Tue Dec 4 01:30:58 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:25, Jon Warms wrote: > 5) Sorry to say, don't use my drive-changing as a guide for the > MacBook Pro. One reason I opted for the MB was the incredible > drive-replacement ease (Thanks, Apple). I have replaced the HDD > on a friend's MBP; it can be done, but while it's easy on the > MacBook, it's difficult on the MBP. I used the excellent guides > in iFixit.com. Thanks for the advice Jon! I'll check out iFixit.com. All the best, Colin ______________ Eleventh Volume Hard Format -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20071204/3776011d/attachment.html From brian.oleary at mac.com Mon Dec 3 23:38:33 2007 From: brian.oleary at mac.com (Brian O'Leary) Date: Tue Dec 4 01:57:11 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <65EA5500-29CA-4892-B286-1B7BDAEB328D@mac.com> Now on 10.5.1 intel imac If i type jr it resolves to www.jr.com, I have never been to jr.com in my life. It appears to work ok for me. I am in UK on Virgin media as ISP Brian On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:38, Ed Graf wrote: > > On Dec 3, 2007, at 6:58 PM, x4u- > request@listserver.themacintoshguy.com wrote: > >>> It's repeatable; and happens on Safari 3.0.4 and Firefox 2.0.0.11. >>> Camino works the same way. Strangely, it also happens on an >>> old Netscape browser that had been "guessing" fine. While it >>> sounds like Verizon is behind this, my wife's PowerBook, right >>> next to me on the kitchen table, does domain-guessing like >>> Macs always did. >> >> >> The same thing is happening here, I'm on Charter. >> Betcha it's something to do with Leopard. > > > 10.5.1 on Mac Mini, Safari 3.0.4, typing jr and hitting return gets > an automatic http://www.jr.com. Typing del and hitting return gets > me the Delta Airlines website, neither of which I have visited going > back years, "Delta" I have never visited. > > Perhaps Leopard is not the problem. > > Notice that was using earthlink.net in Los Angeles as my ISP. > Comcast in Philadelphia are a bunch of morons and I can try the same > next week with a computer there, and likely get some ISP in Borneo. > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From simon-lists at ldml.com Tue Dec 4 01:30:48 2007 From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster) Date: Tue Dec 4 02:36:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:38, Ed Graf wrote: > 10.5.1 on Mac Mini, Safari 3.0.4, typing jr and hitting return gets > an automatic http://www.jr.com. Firefox 2.0.0.10 on Mac OS 10.5.1. Ditto. Safari 3.0.4 on Mac OS 10.5.1. Ditto. For giggles: Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Ditto. Internet Explorer 7.0.6000 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Redirect to "search.live.com". Simon Forster __________________________________________________ LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK Tel: +44 20 7993 8813 Fax: +44 70 9230 5247 __________________________________________________ From dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 4 02:06:35 2007 From: dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk (David Ledger) Date: Tue Dec 4 02:51:53 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <20071204025900.1D6442092FEC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204025900.1D6442092FEC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: >From: Stroller >Any website that requires a www. prefix in this day & age is >[redacted] stuck in the 90's, dude. Like retro! Hardly. It's not unusual to get 'free' web space from your ISP. My web space at my ISP is at www...co.uk If you omit the 'www.' you get my desktop Mac at home. If my ISP gave my free web space the short name, I wouldn't be able to access my home network from outside, either by http or by ssh. ..co.uk is the correct name to resolve to the IP address for my ISP connection. My ISP traps the 'www' prefix and points it at their webserver instead. It may be unneccessary to use 'www' in many web based Internet services, but there are also others where http is not the primary purpose, and the short form should point to another service. You use such services all the time - DNS, NTP, proxy servers ... David -- David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK. HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk) david.ledger@ivdcs.co.uk www.ivdcs.co.uk From dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 4 01:46:07 2007 From: dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk (David Ledger) Date: Tue Dec 4 02:52:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <20071204061740.47CFE2098F76@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204061740.47CFE2098F76@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: >From: Jon Warms >2) Yeah, I thought it was Verizon playing tricks. Maybe it is, but >the PowerBook running Tiger and earlier versions of Firefox and Safari >uses domain-guessing like it always did. More telling, when I >boot the MacBook into Tiger and run the older browser versions, >domain-guessing also works. Obviously, something is happening >on my MacBook, not on Verizon's network. I don't understand what; >I wish someone knowledgeable could help me. More a matter of vaguely remembering the history. Early browsers like Mosaic originally didn't give any such help. They didn't even add the 'http://'. Can't remember if it was Mosaic or an early Netscape when they added automatic extension. If a dns lookup on the host part you typed didn't resolve it tried variants. Certainly 'http://www' and possibly others were added to the front and checked. Various things were tried on the end in turn. These included '.com' and '.co.uk' IIRC but the list was built in. It was purely a browser function. (You don't mention the addittion of 'http://' but that still happens). My guess is that it's still really a browser function, but as current Mac browsers use Apple's Webkit it may have moved into there and so be a part of the OS. Maybe the list of which parts to add is either learned or is supplied by the ISP. The Delta Airlines example would suggest the ISP. It's also possible that it comes from any Google/whatever bits that are embedded for automatic searching. David -- David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK. HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk) david.ledger@ivdcs.co.uk www.ivdcs.co.uk From fin at finseth.com Tue Dec 4 05:53:37 2007 From: fin at finseth.com (Craig A. Finseth) Date: Tue Dec 4 05:53:44 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> (message from Jon Warms on Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:25:23 -0500) References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20071204135337.6A02276D04@isis.visi.com> ... 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL (the way I typed it). Domain guessing failures can be an interaction of both the browser and the ISP. Essentially, it works something like this: - you enter "fred" - the browser looks it up as you entered it - if it finds an A record, successs! > of course, this may be the A record of the ISP search page: BAD! - otherwise, it looks to see if there is a "www" prefix and/or "com" suffix (the exact list varies among browsers) - it then looks up that name With the ISPs confusing things, the browser has to now determine whether an "apparently successful" response is due to true success or a false success. So, we're now in an escalating arms race here. Thus, erratic results. Craig From XPressoBean at mac.com Tue Dec 4 06:22:02 2007 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Tue Dec 4 06:22:14 2007 Subject: [X4U] Disappearing Gmail (cross-posted) Message-ID: >From the Entourage Help Blog, this post talks about a Gmail problem -- not necessarily with Entourage, but one that could affect anyone using/relying on Gmail (Mac and PC users alike): From Robert at Ameeti.net Tue Dec 4 07:25:15 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Tue Dec 4 07:27:41 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025900.1D6442092FEC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: At 10:06 AM +0000, 12/4/07, David Ledger wrote: >>From: Stroller >>Any website that requires a www. prefix in this day & age is >>[redacted] stuck in the 90's, dude. Like retro! > >Hardly. > >It may be unneccessary to use 'www' in many web based Internet >services, but there are also others where http is not the primary >purpose, and the short form should point to another service. You use >such services all the time - DNS, NTP, proxy servers ... > >David I do believe that Stroller does recognize the value of www for those times that the domain owner wants to specifically point to his web host machine, but the point that Stroller was attempting to make, and I concur, is that when a domain owner has failed to assign a host computer to www, then it would be nice if the browser did assume www as the host and then proceeded to the web server. To fail merely because the user did not type www. and because the domain owner was not wise enough to assign the alias in their DNS records should not punish the user. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences. - Midori Koto <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From Robert at Ameeti.net Tue Dec 4 07:41:20 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Tue Dec 4 08:48:29 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 12:25 AM -0500, 12/4/07, Jon Warms wrote: >1) The post (and the poster) questioning whether I'm old or young is >irrelevant (and worse). While you may think it irrelevant, am I correct? >I hope Apple agrees with me about its importance and restores it soon. I'd be hesitant to blame Apple. >Obviously, something is happening on my MacBook, not on Verizon's >network. I don't understand what; I wish someone knowledgeable could >help me. Try changing your DNS servers. Go to System Preferences/Network/, on the left, click on whatever interface you are currently using, click Advanced, using the DNS tab, change your DNS servers to: 66.174.92.14 69.78.96.14 BTW: Is one of your current DNS servers dimmed and unchangeable? >4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. Yes it is. >Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the ISP sees a >correctly formatted URL. Nope. That is not how DNS works. The DNS server is the first place that is queried. Else DNS would not work in networks where the domain administrator wanted you computer to go where he wanted it to go. >I get the Verizon-Yahoo search engine because the browser sends the >incomplete URL >(the way I typed it). and because Verizon wanted you to go there to increase their revenue. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti Fairy tales: Horror stories for children to get them used to reality. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From Robert at Ameeti.net Tue Dec 4 07:58:17 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Tue Dec 4 08:49:02 2007 Subject: domain guessing [was] [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: <54326DFA-1D01-4894-97E3-BEA6C17A4FBD@charter.net> Message-ID: At 9:59 AM -0800, 12/3/07, Konrad Waibel wrote: >this behavior began for me in July 2005 when I subscribed to Charter >Cable. I was using 10.2.8/Safari [?]. Still happens to me now >using 10.4.11/Safari 3.0.4 and Charter. I assumed, and still do, >this was something programmed by Charter directing me to their page >to make more money from their advertisers. You are correct but there is no reasonable reason that you should have to use their DNS servers. Either use some OpenDNS server or try these instead of the ones you are currently using. Let me know of your results. 66.174.92.14 69.78.96.14 Are any of the current DNS servers currently listed for you dimmed? -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti Moral: design before you implement. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 09:24:28 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:26:45 2007 Subject: [X4U] Dell printer driver for Mac? In-Reply-To: References: <2eba7d5d5f41f1103d413a17c736e951@telus.net> <4B52F5BD-26DA-4740-AC75-BACB04ED5925@myrealbox.com> <2AE9FFD4-EFF4-4989-8A9A-ABE068D03098@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <583A178B-23AE-494F-8FC7-1FA03A4787DD@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 04:48, Daly Jessup wrote: > At 17 37 +0000 12/3/07, Stroller wrote: >> On 1 Dec 2007, at 01:15, Daly Jessup wrote: >>> >>> As far as I can figure out, Tiger killed CUPS... >> >> It's certainly present here on 10.4. I'd be surprised if the web- >> admin interface is completely impotent. > > It's present, all right, but I'd be interested in hearing what > happens if you click the "Configure" button (or it's called > something like that). When I hit Configure Printer on the > LaserWriter, I get "You don't have permission to access the > resource on this server." I think the webpage asks you to log on at one point (I think Safari here is remembering that I logged on a few days ago; Safari hasn't been closed in that time) and that you need to do so as an admin user. >> A network LaserJet 4000 & a USB Canon iP3000 both allow me to >> follow that link, but again I have to confess I'm not messing with >> them further. > > Follow what link? To their Configure page? Yes. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 09:30:12 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:32:45 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> Message-ID: <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:25, Jon Warms wrote: > ... > 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. > Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the > ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo > search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL > (the way I typed it). Prove it. Without making the DNS changes suggested today open a terminal window and type `host jr` (without the quotes). I hate it when people post misinformation and I believe you are incorrect when you absolve Verizon from blame. It frustrates me, therefore, that you continue to write paragraphs complaining about Apple over this. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 09:34:00 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:37:15 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025900.1D6442092FEC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <840F59B4-F029-4D81-B208-5EFE6372548D@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 10:06, David Ledger wrote: >> From: Stroller >> Any website that requires a www. prefix in this day & age is >> [redacted] stuck in the 90's, dude. Like retro! > > Hardly. > > It's not unusual to get 'free' web space from your ISP. My web > space at my ISP is at > www...co.uk > If you omit the 'www.' you get my desktop Mac at home. If my ISP > gave my free web space the short name, I wouldn't be able to access > my home network from outside, either by http or by ssh. > > ..co.uk is the correct name to resolve to the IP > address for my ISP connection. My ISP traps the 'www' prefix and > points it at their webserver instead. That's a fairly unusual case, and you can hardly deny that Demon are an old-skool ISP. My comment was more in the case of hosted sites, eg: http:// www.ba.com http://www.yahoo.com in which the www. should be unnecessary (and requests should be redirected from those to http:// ba.com http://yahoo.com respectively) Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 09:36:23 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:42:06 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <51416EAE-CE2F-43E9-9C64-0459F6CFBDE8@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 09:30, Simon Forster wrote: > ... > Internet Explorer 7.0.6000 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate > 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Redirect to > "search.live.com". Advise applying this patch to fix: http://www.google.com/google_rsearch.reg Stroller. From Robert at Ameeti.net Tue Dec 4 09:49:26 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Tue Dec 4 09:54:08 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: At 5:30 PM +0000, 12/4/07, Stroller wrote: >I hate it when people post misinformation and I believe you are >incorrect when you absolve Verizon from blame. It frustrates me, >therefore, that you continue to write paragraphs complaining about >Apple over this. But how else might we continue the threads on how Leopard is not yet ready and we should wait till Apple gets it right before we can use it? -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. -- James Branch Cabell, The Silver Stallion, 1926 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From douglass at cs.clemson.edu Tue Dec 4 11:21:36 2007 From: douglass at cs.clemson.edu (John Douglass - User) Date: Tue Dec 4 11:22:01 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2007, at 10:30 AM, Stroller wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:25, Jon Warms wrote: >> ... >> 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. >> Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the >> ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo >> search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL >> (the way I typed it). > > Prove it. > > Without making the DNS changes suggested today open a terminal > window and type `host jr` (without the quotes). This should only show a "Host jr not found" message as domain guessing is different from DNS search domains (ref: http://www.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/domain-guessing.html) So while my browsers are correctly performing domain guessing, when I do as you suggest and type "host jr" I get the expected "Host jr not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)" because my DNS entries do not have ".com" in the search domains (nor would I want to add them). > I believe you are incorrect when you absolve Verizon from blame. It > frustrates me, therefore, > that you continue to write paragraphs complaining about Apple over > this. I agree with you that it is not likely that Apple is simply to blame. If one reads the reference from Mozilla above it states: "the browser is getting an error for what you typed, and re-trying with a second guess" -- so what seems to me to be happening is that Verizon is not returning a proper error but instead returning the redirect. -- John From simon-lists at ldml.com Tue Dec 4 11:48:15 2007 From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster) Date: Tue Dec 4 11:48:51 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <51416EAE-CE2F-43E9-9C64-0459F6CFBDE8@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> <51416EAE-CE2F-43E9-9C64-0459F6CFBDE8@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On 4 Dec 2007, at 17:36, Stroller wrote: > On 4 Dec 2007, at 09:30, Simon Forster wrote: >> ... >> Internet Explorer 7.0.6000 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate >> 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Redirect to >> "search.live.com". > > Advise applying this patch to fix: > http://www.google.com/google_rsearch.reg When I posted the email I did delete the beginnings of a rant about abusing market dominance in the desktop space. Glad to hear that I'm not alone with my distaste for this practice. ATB Simon Forster __________________________________________________ LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK Tel: +44 20 7993 8813 Fax: +44 70 9230 5247 __________________________________________________ From simon-lists at ldml.com Tue Dec 4 12:05:36 2007 From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster) Date: Tue Dec 4 12:05:44 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On 4 Dec 2007, at 17:30, Stroller wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:25, Jon Warms wrote: >> ... >> 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. >> Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the >> ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo >> search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL >> (the way I typed it). > > Prove it. > > Without making the DNS changes suggested today open a terminal > window and type `host jr` (without the quotes). > > I hate it when people post misinformation and I believe you are > incorrect when you absolve Verizon from blame. It frustrates me, > therefore, that you continue to write paragraphs complaining about > Apple over this. > host jr my.name.server Using domain server: Name: my.name.server Address: 127.0.0.1#53 Aliases: Host jr not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > host jr VZDNS01.VERIZON.COM Using domain server: Name: VZDNS01.VERIZON.COM Address: 192.76.85.133#53 Aliases: Dig yields a little more: dig jr -> "status: NXDOMAIN" (non-existent domain) dig jr @VZDNS01.VERIZON.COM -> status: NOERROR Simon Forster __________________________________________________ LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK Tel: +44 20 7993 8813 Fax: +44 70 9230 5247 __________________________________________________ From richards at spawar.navy.mil Tue Dec 4 13:44:06 2007 From: richards at spawar.navy.mil (John F. Richardson) Date: Tue Dec 4 13:44:12 2007 Subject: [X4U] OT: Quicktime on Vista question In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com><04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com><08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <016201c836be$cbb015a0$90903180@jpmis.mil> Hello, Off Topic. I have run across a lot of traffic on an astronomy list about Quicktime on Vista having problems (RAID, etc.). Is there a synopsis of Quicktime stability on Vista somewhere? John F. Richardson From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 13:57:33 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 13:57:51 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> <51416EAE-CE2F-43E9-9C64-0459F6CFBDE8@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <84643F59-4D08-4C4A-AC8E-7116B660DC9C@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 19:48, Simon Forster wrote: > n 4 Dec 2007, at 17:36, Stroller wrote: >> On 4 Dec 2007, at 09:30, Simon Forster wrote: >>> ... >>> Internet Explorer 7.0.6000 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate >>> 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Redirect to >>> "search.live.com". >> >> Advise applying this patch to fix: >> http://www.google.com/google_rsearch.reg > > When I posted the email I did delete the beginnings of a rant about > abusing market dominance in the desktop space. Glad to hear that > I'm not alone with my distaste for this practice. Sounds like I need to take you out for your Christmas Drink, you grumpy old git. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Tue Dec 4 14:13:53 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Tue Dec 4 14:14:07 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <430C6A04-AF4F-4088-A52A-9C16618652CE@myrealbox.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 19:21, John Douglass - User wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007, at 10:30 AM, Stroller wrote: >> On 4 Dec 2007, at 05:25, Jon Warms wrote: >>> ... >>> 4) The issue isn't how Verizon handles a poorly formed URL. >>> Domain-guessing adds the www and the dot com, so the >>> ISP sees a correctly formatted URL. I get the Verizon-Yahoo >>> search engine because the browser sends the incomplete URL >>> (the way I typed it). >> >> Prove it. >> >> Without making the DNS changes suggested today open a terminal >> window and type `host jr` (without the quotes). > > ... > So while my browsers are correctly performing domain guessing, when > I do as you suggest > and type "host jr" I get the expected "Host jr not found: 3 > (NXDOMAIN)" because my DNS > entries do not have ".com" in the search domains (nor would I want > to add them). Yes, but YOU'RE not reporting the domain guessing problem (if I'm reading your message of 3 December 2007 20:07:50 GMT correctly then you explicitly state the opposite). My request for the results of `host jr` was for Jon Warms, although Mr Forster's reply (4 December 2007 20:05:36 GMT) appears to prove me wrong. I'd like to see it performed from within Verizon's network to be sure. Stroller. From douglass at cs.clemson.edu Tue Dec 4 15:19:36 2007 From: douglass at cs.clemson.edu (John Douglass - User) Date: Tue Dec 4 15:20:09 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <430C6A04-AF4F-4088-A52A-9C16618652CE@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> <430C6A04-AF4F-4088-A52A-9C16618652CE@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <21565B60-FED4-4FFF-B695-BD28F1BEC097@cs.clemson.edu> On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Stroller wrote: > > Yes, but YOU'RE not reporting the domain guessing problem (if I'm > reading your message of 3 December 2007 20:07:50 GMT correctly then > you explicitly state the opposite). Agreed. However, my domain guessing is working, but my DNS lookup using `host jr` does not, which of course was the point I was trying to make: DNS client lookups and domain guessing are completely different beasts. (See previous reference to Mozilla's explanation). > My request for the results of `host jr` was for Jon Warms, although > Mr Forster's reply (4 December 2007 20:05:36 GMT) appears to prove > me wrong. I'd like to see it performed from within Verizon's network > to be sure. Actually, I think Mr. Forster's reply proves you RIGHT, Verizon's DNS server should be returning NXDOMAIN but instead returns NOERROR. As a friend of mine says, we might be in "violent agreement." A simple way to see what happens is to open the terminal and issue "sudo tcpdump -n port 53" from the command line. Then type in the "jr" into the URL box and see what happens. What you should see is something like: 15:56:25.460883 IP 192.168.2.2.49857 > nameserver.domain: 46418+ A? jr.search1. 15:56:25.461500 IP nameserver.domain > 192.168.2.2.49857: 46418 NXDomain* 0/1/0 15:56:25.461839 IP 192.168.2.2.49858 > nameserver.domain: 49011+ A? jr.search2. 15:56:25.462453 IP nameserver.domain > 192.168.2.2: 49011 NXDomain* 0/1/0 15:56:25.603464 IP 192.168.2.2.49862 > nameserver.domain: 7689+ A? www.jr.com . 15:56:25.796455 IP nameserver.domain > 192.168.2.2.49862: 7689 1/5/3 A 4.71.184.155 (names changed to protect the innocent). Do the same thing under `host` and you will not get the final line, because the domain guessing is browser related not DNS client related. Anyway, the results show my request first tacking on the first search domain listed in my DNS settings, then the second, and then finally doing domain guessing by sending "www.jr.com". I postulate, based upon Mr Forster's reply, that the NXDOMAIN above won't be there, instead the people experiencing problems will see NOERROR. Thus you will not see the domain guessing portion. I don't think this problem is caused by Leopard. I can concede the possibility there might have been changes in the client resolver library code that would change the default behavior from Tiger to Leopard regarding the handling of a NOERROR return. Either way the correct DNS server response (NXDOMAIN) would allow Leopard to behave as expected, because after all "jr" (in my case jr.searchdomain) doesn't exist, and the DNS should return an error. -- John From Res19rmg at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 17:43:50 2007 From: Res19rmg at verizon.net (Kevin Willis) Date: Tue Dec 4 17:44:05 2007 Subject: [X4U] same computer, different speeds Message-ID: My wife and I share my 1 Ghz G4. She has been complaining about Safari being very slow opening web pages. I quit all her applications, but that didn't seem to help. When I switched over to my account and tried the same pages, they opened much faster. What can I do to speed her side up? Why would one account be so much slower than the other? Thanks, Kevin From list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net Tue Dec 4 18:23:16 2007 From: list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Tue Dec 4 18:23:40 2007 Subject: [X4U] same computer, different speeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071205022316.GB323@Macintosh.local> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 07:43:50PM CST, Kevin Willis wrote: > > My wife and I share my 1 Ghz G4. She has been complaining about Safari > being very slow opening web pages. I quit all her applications, but that > didn't seem to help. When I switched over to my account and tried the same > pages, they opened much faster. What can I do to speed her side up? Why > would one account be so much slower than the other? Try some of the following tips and see if they help: -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From randy at macattorney.com Tue Dec 4 19:12:53 2007 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Tue Dec 4 19:13:04 2007 Subject: [X4U] same computer, different speeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2007, at 5:43 PM, Kevin Willis wrote: > My wife and I share my 1 Ghz G4. She has been complaining about > Safari being very slow opening web pages. I quit all her > applications, but that didn't seem to help. When I switched over to > my account and tried the same pages, they opened much faster. What > can I do to speed her side up? Why would one account be so much > slower than the other? Have a look at: Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html Item #9 ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From jwarms at mac.com Tue Dec 4 21:26:29 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon) Date: Tue Dec 4 21:26:31 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> I'm really trying to understand what I call the missing domain guessing issue. The last posters are pretty convincing that Verizon is doing the dirty deed & diverting invalid urls to feed their click revenue. But that doesn't fit the facts that I observe and have reported. I have a Powerbook running 10.4.11 and a MacBook running 10.5.1, running side-by-side on my kitchen table, and connected by Airport to a Westell DSL modem connected to Verizon DSL. The network preference panel on each machine shows that it goes to 192.168.1.1 for its router, i.e., the DSL modem. So whatever Verizon is doing, it should affect both laptops the same way. I went to the Westell modem site (192.168.1.1). The connection summary shows a primary DNS of 71.250.0.12, and a secondary DNS of 71.242.0.12. I couldn't change them. In any case, since both computers use the Westell, these DNS can't be reason for the different results. I ran the port and dig commands, but I don't understand enough about them yet. (I wish the man pages were not so lengthy and not so cryptic.) So let me repeat what the issue is. I launched Firefox on each machine. This is a problem, because the version on the Powerbook (Tiger) isn't the current version for Leopard, and when I copied that version over to the MacBook, it upgraded automatically. In any event, when I type "chevrolet", in the MacBook I get the Verizon- Yahoo search program; on the PowerBook, the Chevy website comes right up. I'm not ignoring any postings, I'm not bashing Apple, and I certainly don't want to ignore Verizon. It certainly seems like Verizon is forcing its search program, but that isn't an issue to me if domain guessing is working. All I'm doing is what I've been trained to do and have been practicing all my life. Observe what's going on, and make sure the conclusions fit all the observations. One poster suggested that all browsers now go through iWeb (an Apple program), and - if this is indeed true - could be where changes have occurred. I respectfully request help, but - please - explain why 10.4 still works and 10.5 hasn't from the first day I installed it. (And I'd love to see a tech bulletin that could explain it further.) From maclist at analogdigital.com.au Tue Dec 4 22:34:43 2007 From: maclist at analogdigital.com.au (Christopher Collins) Date: Tue Dec 4 22:34:57 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: questions: 1. Did you do a clean install? 2). Have you been to these sites before? cjc On 05/12/2007, at 4:26 PM, Jon wrote: > I launched Firefox on each machine. This is a problem, because the > version on the Powerbook (Tiger) isn't the current version for > Leopard, and > when I copied that version over to the MacBook, it upgraded > automatically. > > In any event, when I type "chevrolet", in the MacBook I get the > Verizon- > Yahoo search program; on the PowerBook, the Chevy website comes > right up. > > All I'm doing is what > I've been trained to do and have been practicing all my life. > Observe what's > going on, and make sure the conclusions fit all the observations. > > One poster suggested that all browsers now go through iWeb (an Apple > program), and - if this is indeed true - could be where changes have > occurred. > > I respectfully request help, but - please - explain why 10.4 still > works and 10.5 > hasn't from the first day I installed it. (And I'd love to see a > tech bulletin that > could explain it further.) From Robert at Ameeti.net Tue Dec 4 22:38:58 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Tue Dec 4 22:39:43 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: At 12:26 AM -0500, 12/5/07, Jon wrote: >I went to the Westell modem site (192.168.1.1). The connection >summary shows a primary DNS of 71.250.0.12, and a secondary DNS of >71.242.0.12. I couldn't change them. In any case, since both >computers use the Westell, these DNS can't be reason for the >different results. Look at the DNS settings of each computer in the System Preferences, not on the router. The DNS of the computer overrides the routers. >In any event, when I type "chevrolet", in the MacBook I get the >Verizon-Yahoo search program Does that really pass the smell test? >I respectfully request help, but - please - explain why 10.4 still >works and 10.5 hasn't from the first day I installed it. (And I'd >love to see a tech bulletin that could explain it further.) DNS works like this: When you enter something into the browser's address bar (URL), the browser takes what you enter and looks it up in the computer's 'hosts' file. If there is not entry for that URL in the hosts file, then the URL is then potentially checked against the network's hosts file, if it exists. If that file does not exist, the URL is checked against one of the randomly selected DNS servers that are referenced in the Network panel. Depending on whether that DNS server has a listing for the entry, it may get passed up all the way to the root servers for each top level domain. ie. If I type jr in my browser, 'jr' is checked in my hosts file. If my network administrator wants my computer to connect to the server named 'jr' on our network, he will have put an entry into my hosts file directing all calls for 'jr' to its IP address (ie. 192.168.1.105). If my administrator has no entry in my hosts file for that URL, then it is passed on to the networks hosts file and the same lookup happens. When it is not found in that DNS server, it is then passed on to the ISP's DNS server. This should happen all the way up until the DNS server is configured to not validate against URLs that do not have a top level domain as part of the URL (.com, .net, .org, .gov, etc) When the URL is not found in the DNS server's zone file, it is then said to be in error and that error is passed all the way back down the chain to your computer. Your browser can if configured to do so, change the request, appending on additional information and then re-request a reevaluation of the new URL. (Doing all of the re-requesting does in fact take time and may in fact be slower than a user's typing in the .com in the first place.) Many browsers will first add a .com and then send for a response, and if it fails, then they might add on the www. and have it check again. The passing up the chain of DNS servers allows for the valid response of a domain that may not have been recently used when it might pass all the way up to the .com root server. In this case, the Verizon DNS server has been configured to not accept any URL that does not have a top level domain as part of the URL and to send back their search page instead of an error. Because you one computer did not get the error result, it was not able to 'guess' and resend the request with additional information. Network Solutions used to be the monopoly in the Registrar business of the Internet. When the dropped the ball and gave shitty customer service, every knowledgeable IT administrator started running ftom them and Network Solutions started losing their hold on the market. They then too started redirecting errors in users DNS lookups to their servers. See for what the did and the holy wars that started at that time. Verizon is now risking the same thing by doing this same stupid mistake in hopes of making an extra dollar. Kinda like the HP computer that I just opened up and found that they don't include system disks for the user. They expect that the average user is going to read the slip of paper that says to make your own recovery disks. Ya right. I just spent 1 hr and 7 mins on the phone with them till they gave up and are now mailing them to me (instead of charging me $14.95 for the set.) When companies try to save them self a $1, I'll make them pay many times more to learn not to be cheap and screw the customer. I'd like to figure out a way to muck with Verizon cuz I hate their policies as well, but I'm not coming up with anything quickly fortunately for them. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti "Stop trying to perfect your child, but keep trying to perfect your relationship with him." ~ Dr. Henker <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From simon-lists at ldml.com Wed Dec 5 02:12:33 2007 From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster) Date: Wed Dec 5 02:12:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <84643F59-4D08-4C4A-AC8E-7116B660DC9C@myrealbox.com> References: <20071204025857.DD2A22092FD4@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <7CBA6BB4-6568-474F-8C42-E8194E901F9E@earthlink.net> <51416EAE-CE2F-43E9-9C64-0459F6CFBDE8@myrealbox.com> <84643F59-4D08-4C4A-AC8E-7116B660DC9C@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <0E6951EC-A1EA-4007-951B-6FD2B94B06D0@ldml.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 21:57, Stroller wrote: > On 4 Dec 2007, at 19:48, Simon Forster wrote: >> n 4 Dec 2007, at 17:36, Stroller wrote: >>> On 4 Dec 2007, at 09:30, Simon Forster wrote: >>>> ... >>>> Internet Explorer 7.0.6000 on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate >>>> 6.0.6000 running in VMware Fusion on Mac OS 10.5.1. Redirect to >>>> "search.live.com". >>> >>> Advise applying this patch to fix: >>> http://www.google.com/google_rsearch.reg >> >> When I posted the email I did delete the beginnings of a rant about >> abusing market dominance in the desktop space. Glad to hear that >> I'm not alone with my distaste for this practice. > > Sounds like I need to take you out for your Christmas Drink, you > grumpy old git Charmed, I'm sure. ;-) Simon Forster __________________________________________________ LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK Tel: +44 20 7993 8813 Fax: +44 70 9230 5247 __________________________________________________ From simon-lists at ldml.com Wed Dec 5 02:18:39 2007 From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster) Date: Wed Dec 5 02:18:50 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <21565B60-FED4-4FFF-B695-BD28F1BEC097@cs.clemson.edu> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> <430C6A04-AF4F-4088-A52A-9C16618652CE@myrealbox.com> <21565B60-FED4-4FFF-B695-BD28F1BEC097@cs.clemson.edu> Message-ID: <077E9FC1-BE50-4810-BCDB-ED1D89B877D5@ldml.com> On 4 Dec 2007, at 23:19, John Douglass - User wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Stroller wrote: >> >> My request for the results of `host jr` was for Jon Warms, although >> Mr Forster's reply (4 December 2007 20:05:36 GMT) appears to prove >> me wrong. I'd like to see it performed from within Verizon's >> network to be sure. > > > Actually, I think Mr. Forster's reply proves you RIGHT, Verizon's > DNS server should be returning NXDOMAIN but instead returns > NOERROR. As a friend of mine says, we might be in "violent > agreement." I thought my posting proves you (Stroller) right. My reading of the situation was much as per John Douglass' full post. I do enjoy it when people "violently agree" ;-) Simon Forster __________________________________________________ LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK Tel: +44 20 7993 8813 Fax: +44 70 9230 5247 __________________________________________________ From macmonster at myrealbox.com Wed Dec 5 04:12:32 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Wed Dec 5 04:12:46 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <077E9FC1-BE50-4810-BCDB-ED1D89B877D5@ldml.com> References: <20071204025859.02DB02092FDC@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <04B9A14D-53B4-4750-91CB-17AD23212E9A@mac.com> <08488674-B9C6-4815-B96B-C090D29F5ECD@myrealbox.com> <430C6A04-AF4F-4088-A52A-9C16618652CE@myrealbox.com> <21565B60-FED4-4FFF-B695-BD28F1BEC097@cs.clemson.edu> <077E9FC1-BE50-4810-BCDB-ED1D89B877D5@ldml.com> Message-ID: On 5 Dec 2007, at 10:18, Simon Forster wrote: > On 4 Dec 2007, at 23:19, John Douglass - User wrote: >> On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Stroller wrote: >>> >>> My request for the results of `host jr` was for Jon Warms, >>> although Mr Forster's reply (4 December 2007 20:05:36 GMT) >>> appears to prove me wrong. I'd like to see it performed from >>> within Verizon's network to be sure. >> >> >> Actually, I think Mr. Forster's reply proves you RIGHT, Verizon's >> DNS server should be returning NXDOMAIN but instead returns >> NOERROR. As a friend of mine says, we might be in "violent >> agreement." > > I thought my posting proves you (Stroller) right. My reading of the > situation was much as per John Douglass' full post. Thanks to both of you. I have to confess that my brain is starting to fade on this one. I'm happy with the idea that a DNS query either returns a result or doesn't. The impression I got from Mr Forster's post was that the distinction is more complicated than that and involves different kinds of error being returned. I've kinda reached the stage with this one where I'd love to learn more about it, if the problem was happening to me - at one remove I'm just kinda "peh!" about understanding it further. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Wed Dec 5 04:47:00 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Wed Dec 5 04:47:27 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: <154EB95C-C6EA-4072-8D2F-A55A1AA3229C@myrealbox.com> On 5 Dec 2007, at 05:26, Jon wrote: > ...The last posters are pretty convincing that Verizon is doing the > dirty deed & diverting invalid urls to feed their click revenue. > > But that doesn't fit the facts that I observe and have reported. > .... > I launched Firefox on each machine. This is a problem, because the > version on the Powerbook (Tiger) isn't the current version for > Leopard, and > when I copied that version over to the MacBook, it upgraded > automatically. Just because 10.4 and 10.4 are behaving differently, doesn't mean it's all Apple's fault. I think that was your original assumption & that you understand otherwise now. On computer functions there are often multiple error conditions. When we talk about DNS we're talking about commands which ask a computer to look up the IP address associated with a domain name - there might be an error type for the server to say "address doesn't exist", another for it to say "I'm not responsible for that address" or "I'm only allowed to talk to my ISP's customers" and others for your computer to say "the server didn't respond in good time" and so on. Under 10.3 Apple may well have responded one way to one of these error messages and chosen to respond differently in 10.4 - that doesn't mean the new behaviour is wrong, it could just be that it substantiates Verizon's incorrect configuration as it didn't (to you) before. It seems pretty clear (to me) that the correct behaviour at an o/s level is for the host "jr" to be "not found". I'd expect a simple web- browser should return a "404" error or similar in response to this (like they all did in the old days) but as browsers have become more sophisticated they have been designed to produce more "user friendly" results. This difference is illustrated by the way Internet Explorer goes to the Windows Live Search results for "jr", whereas another browser adds the "www." and ".com". A search page might actually be more useful in many cases than adding the "www." and ".com" - if you'd typed "ib" or "ib.com" instead of "ibm", for example. > I ran the port and dig commands, but I don't understand enough > about them > yet. (I wish the man pages were not so lengthy and not so cryptic.) Well, the great thing about commands in a terminal window is that you can copy & paste them into emails to show us the results they gave and allow people to explain them for you. man pages tend to be actually really good & useful, but unfortunately it's a acquired skill learning how to read them. man pages are long because they're comprehensive and (generally) cover everything; they have a summary section, often have examples towards the end and not only is each flag explained in detail but the "Synopsis" section which explains how those flags can be used in different ways (eg: compare "dig [@server] ..." with "dig [global-queryopt...]") are consistent. I'm not criticising at all your inability to read them, because I sympathise with that a great deal, and remember how difficult I found it some years ago - I'm just saying they're that way for a reason. Now I wouldn't have them any other way, as I can often glance at a man page & get the information I require from it very quickly indeed (the exception to this is often when a particular program severely depreciates its man page for a GNU info version). Stroller. From jessup at san.rr.com Wed Dec 5 04:52:07 2007 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Wed Dec 5 04:52:47 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.co m> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: At 22 38 -0800 12/4/07, Robert Ameeti wrote: >At 12:26 AM -0500, 12/5/07, Jon wrote: > >>I respectfully request help, but - please - explain why 10.4 still >>works and 10.5 hasn't from the first day I installed it. (And I'd >>love to see a tech bulletin that could explain it further.) > >DNS works like this: >In this case, the Verizon DNS server has been configured to not >accept any URL that does not have a top level domain as part of the >URL and to send back their search page instead of an error. Because >you one computer did not get the error result, it was not able to >'guess' and resend the request with additional information. But then why might it work on his Tiger machine and not on his Leopard machine. If Verizon were doing it, wouldn't they both fail? Daly ---------------------- From Robert at Ameeti.net Wed Dec 5 06:45:14 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Wed Dec 5 06:46:32 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.co m> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: At 4:52 AM -0800, 12/5/07, Daly Jessup wrote: >At 22 38 -0800 12/4/07, Robert Ameeti wrote: >>At 12:26 AM -0500, 12/5/07, Jon wrote: >> >>>I respectfully request help, but - please - explain why 10.4 still >>>works and 10.5 hasn't from the first day I installed it. (And I'd >>>love to see a tech bulletin that could explain it further.) >> >>DNS works like this: > > > >>In this case, the Verizon DNS server has been configured to not >>accept any URL that does not have a top level domain as part of the >>URL and to send back their search page instead of an error. Because >>you one computer did not get the error result, it was not able to >>'guess' and resend the request with additional information. > >But then why might it work on his Tiger machine and not on his >Leopard machine. If Verizon were doing it, wouldn't they both fail? Without being there, this could be explained in few ways. I'm still waiting to see what the DNS servers are on each computer. We've not heard that yet. We've only heard what the DNS was on the router. The DNS on the computer would override the DNS on the router. Secondly, there should always be at least 2 DNS servers listed in the DNS. The system is designed to randomly select from those DNS servers. Each DNS server can be configured differently. As always, there are lots of variables to be examined. The bottom line though is that the return of Verizon's search page is just plain wrong. No DNS server should ever take upon itself the choice to return what it wants to return. That must always be the choice of the computer asking the question or else the system breaks down in many ways. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners. -- Johnny Carson <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From douglass at cs.clemson.edu Wed Dec 5 06:58:01 2007 From: douglass at cs.clemson.edu (John Douglass - User) Date: Wed Dec 5 06:58:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.co m> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: <412C59F9-B249-4F64-8F8A-0FA8F71C31AB@cs.clemson.edu> On Dec 5, 2007, at 5:52 AM, Daly Jessup wrote: > > But then why might it work on his Tiger machine and not on his > Leopard machine. If Verizon were doing it, wouldn't they both fail? > > Daly One word answer: NO Longer answer -- there happens to be more variables then we can control. As I conceded in a previous post, Tiger and Leopard are using different versions of almost all the open source tools that lie underneath (primarily libresolv [dns resolver library] and WebKit [what Safari is built upon]) and thus may behave differently. These tools don't come from Apple (although admittedly WebKit does come from Apple but is a forked version of KHTML so it is not ONLY Apple). It is easy for me to see how these tools could behave differently under what could be may or may not be considered an error condition. Remember, the Verizon DNS server is not returning the NXDOMAIN (non existent domain error) when the 'host jr' question is asked, it is returning NOERROR and not putting anything in the RR (return record). It is not an error then, it is simply a return record that is not defined. NXDOMAIN tells the browser that the host wasn't found and that it then applies domain guessing. NOERROR tells the browser no such thing. Without reviewing the DNS RFCs I'm not sure whether the handling of NOERROR without an RR is defined or not (I suspect not), which would mean that it could be very implementation dependent. I suspect the behavior change is in the libresolv or related code and not WebKit since the original poster said that it worked under Tiger under Safari 3.0.4, which would use the same version of WebKit as Safari 3.0.4 under Leopard NB: brings up an interesting test if the poster who has problems has access to Windows -- how does Safari under Windows behave? MS obviously uses different DNS revolver code then does Apple, so it may behave entirely different to either of the others. I will end with the following: 1) I believe the behavior of handling the NOERROR return from DNS may have changed. I also believe it was not Apple, as I'm sure that this handler is in one of the open source tools/libraries that OSX is built upon. 2) I believe that Verizon is not returning the appropriate DNS response since "jr" is NOT an existing domain, and thus the proper response should be NXDOMAIN (this is fairly clearly defined in the RFCs). I would be interested in seeing the output from the various commands suggested (host, dig, and the tcpdump). I know more than I care to about DNS debugging and tcp packet analysis; I would be happy to attempt to explain the output to others. -- John From Robert at Ameeti.net Wed Dec 5 07:02:42 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:04:04 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: At 12:26 AM -0500, 12/5/07, Jon wrote: >The last posters are pretty convincing that Verizon is doing the >dirty deed & diverting invalid urls to feed their click revenue. The unequivocal answer is that Verizon's DNS server has no right whatsoever to choose to return anything other than the answer or an error. If every DNS server was allowed to choose what it wanted to return, the DNS system would break down. The browser deserves to know that there was an error based on its request. When it does not get an error, it can not do what you, the person who is supposed to be in control, want it to do. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From jleo at projectsupport.com Wed Dec 5 07:30:16 2007 From: jleo at projectsupport.com (Jesse Leo) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:30:26 2007 Subject: [X4U] Meeting Requests, MS Entourage and MS Outlook In-Reply-To: <20071205063950.2C11520CB440@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: Hello all, This is a long shot, but thought I'd ask anyway: A lot of my clients use MS Outlook/Exchange, and as such I often get an email message asking if I will join a meeting/conference call (I use Entourage 2004). About half of the time this works great - the message has ACCEPT or DECLINE buttons that I simply click on to send the acknowledgement to the client. But the other half of the time these buttons are grayed out. I have to actually forward the message to myself in order to see the call details. Anyone else have any experiences with this and might be able to tell what's going on? Thanks, Jesse From stan at stangould.com Wed Dec 5 07:33:24 2007 From: stan at stangould.com (Stan Gould) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:33:32 2007 Subject: [X4U] Synchronize Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C1F85C0-C274-4462-B1C4-E7CD8D612D65@stangould.com> Question: Can the Address Book and Apple Mail in two Macs be synchronized without having a .mac account? One is an iMac G-5 (powerpc) and the other is a Pismo Powerbook; both running 10.4.9. Thanks, Stan Gould -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20071205/3cdd2d5a/attachment.html From jwarms at mac.com Wed Dec 5 07:39:11 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:39:42 2007 Subject: [X4U] Leopard Issues In-Reply-To: <20071205063950.2C11520CB440@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071205063950.2C11520CB440@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <593E244B-2F86-4689-B642-ED39BDFF31B9@mac.com> One poster asked about the 10.5 installation. It was a clean install from the Leopard DVD onto a just-formatted HDD. On Dec 5, 2007, Robert Ameeti wrote: >> I went to the Westell modem site (192.168.1.1). The connection >> summary shows a primary DNS of 71.250.0.12, and a secondary DNS of >> 71.242.0.12. I couldn't change them. In any case, since both >> computers use the Westell, these DNS can't be reason for the >> different results. > > Look at the DNS settings of each computer in the System Preferences, > not on the router. The DNS of the computer overrides the routers. > >> In any event, when I type "chevrolet", in the MacBook I get the >> Verizon-Yahoo search program > > Does that really pass the smell test? Huh? WTF does that mean? (Why do you add that garbage into otherwise-helpful-postings?) I used "chevrolet" because I hadn't used it before on either computer. Thanks for the DNS explanation. Earlier, you suggested changing the DNS in my computer. I did that on both computers. The 10.4.11 machine added the ".com" (and the www). On the MacBook, there was a delay of several seconds, and then the Verizon search page came up. I assume it tried the changed DNS, which failed, and then tried the DNS in the router, which didn't fail, but routed the address to Verizon. So domain guessing never got applied. But it's still not an answer. Whatever is going on has changed from 10.4.11 to 10.5.1. a) I'd like to understand what has changed, and b) I'd like to know how I can undo the change. From neil at laubenthal.net Wed Dec 5 07:52:28 2007 From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal) Date: Wed Dec 5 07:52:35 2007 Subject: [X4U] Synchronize Question In-Reply-To: <3C1F85C0-C274-4462-B1C4-E7CD8D612D65@stangould.com> References: <3C1F85C0-C274-4462-B1C4-E7CD8D612D65@stangould.com> Message-ID: <20071205105228.vu9kazvabpnsog0s@webmail.his.com> Quoting Stan Gould : > Question: Can the Address Book and Apple Mail in two Macs be > synchronized without having a .mac account? One is an iMac G-5 > (powerpc) and the other is a Pismo Powerbook; both running 10.4.9. > > Thanks, > > Stan Gould Mark Space software has a package named SyncTogether that will do this for you; although the web page says it only syncs Mail settings and not the actual mail messages themselves. To get synced mail between several different machines . . . the easiest way is to use IMAP instead of POP for connection. It's also possible if you were to set up MacOS X Server and it's associated portble homedirectories option; then you're not really syncing two different Macs but syncing the same account between two different Macs. SyncTogether is 50 bucks but you may have to pay for upgrades . . . Leopard Server is 500 bucks . . . Dot Mac is 80 bucks a year. From jwarms at mac.com Wed Dec 5 08:57:25 2007 From: jwarms at mac.com (Jon Warms) Date: Wed Dec 5 08:58:01 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses (Stroller) In-Reply-To: <20071205153026.4BB6D20DCE46@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20071205153026.4BB6D20DCE46@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: <8668F661-FE6E-425C-A88B-0923C3D2494D@mac.com> Stroller- Usually, I agree with your postings, especially the ones that involve elbow-bending. But you're wrong here. Apple changed the interface behavior between the two releases. They must have done this, because it affects every browser I throw at it. Even old Netscape acts differently under 10.5 than it did on earlier releases, and Netscape hasn't changed in years. Don't bother reminding me that if something is left unspecified, it isn't guaranteed not to change. Browser behavior leads to habits that have to be changed. In the general scheme of things, not a big deal, but also it's not clearly necessary. You define "correct behavior". Huh? Domain guessing, as I understood it, simply added "www" and ".com" to each incomplete url, before the net even saw that. Incidentally, the option to use domain guessing is an explicit choice in Netscape's prefs (under a different name). (At one time, Eugene would break in here and tell us what was indeed correct.) As far as man is concerned, my point was that man is a superb ref manual and a lousy textbook. I don't have time to parse the explanations of the two commands until I understand them. Maybe when I retire. I'd post the results of dig if I thought it would help answer my questions, but dig deals with DNS results. I accept the answers about the DNS results and how Verizon gets involved. As you say, between releases Apple may choose to respond differently to the error messages, and this is exactly my point. As I now understand it, one of two things happened when the browser saw an incomplete url. Either it a) recognized the url as incomplete and immediately fixed it, or b) submitted the incomplete url to the router, and when it failed, fixed the url. I had thought (a) was what happened, but maybe (b) was; either way, the browser now never fixes the url but keeps trying for a valid result. Why do you sit back and tell me this is the master's decision and I should just relax and enjoy it? On Dec 5, 2007, Stroller wrote: > On 5 Dec 2007, at 05:26, Jon wrote: >> ...The last posters are pretty convincing that Verizon is doing the >> dirty deed & diverting invalid urls to feed their click revenue. >> >> But that doesn't fit the facts that I observe and have reported. >> .... >> > Just because 10.4 and 10.4 are behaving differently, doesn't mean > it's all Apple's fault. I think that was your original assumption & > that you understand otherwise now. > > On computer functions there are often multiple error conditions. When > we talk about DNS we're talking about commands which ask a computer > to look up the IP address associated with a domain name - there might > be an error type for the server to say "address doesn't exist", > another for it to say ... and so on. > > Under 10.3 Apple may well have responded one way to one of these > error messages and chosen to respond differently in 10.4 - that > doesn't mean the new behaviour is wrong, it could just be that it > substantiates Verizon's incorrect configuration as it didn't (to you) > before. > > It seems pretty clear (to me) that the correct behaviour at an o/s > level is for the host "jr" to be "not found". I'd expect a simple web- > browser should return a "404" error or similar in response to this > (like they all did in the old days) but as browsers have become more > sophisticated they have been designed to produce more "user friendly" > results. This difference is illustrated by the way Internet Explorer > goes to the Windows Live Search results for "jr", whereas another > browser adds the "www." and ".com". A search page might actually be > more useful in many cases than adding the "www." and ".com" - if > you'd typed "ib" or "ib.com" instead of "ibm", for example. > >> I ran the port and dig commands, but I don't understand enough >> about them >> yet. ... > > Well, the great thing about commands in a terminal window is that you > can copy & paste them into emails to show us the results they gave > and allow people to explain them for you. > > man pages tend to be actually really good & useful, but unfortunately > it's a acquired skill learning how to read them. man pages are long > ... From steveself at mac.com Wed Dec 5 09:24:32 2007 From: steveself at mac.com (Steve Self) Date: Wed Dec 5 09:25:22 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> Message-ID: <9820DF5A-78B7-4854-A251-D6EA231913DE@mac.com> Maybe try Safari on both machines with the Chevrolet test? In my 10.5.1 OS and Safari 3.0.4 typing in chevrolet and hitting return brings up the chevy web site: http://www.chevrolet.com/ Same for Firefox 2.0.0.6 on the same machine. (iMac G5) And I had never been to that site on either browser prior to the test. So I doubt it is a Leopard issue. But much of the conversation about DNS details is beyond me. S From Robert at Ameeti.net Wed Dec 5 09:25:21 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Wed Dec 5 09:29:41 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses (Stroller) In-Reply-To: <8668F661-FE6E-425C-A88B-0923C3D2494D@mac.com> References: <20071205153026.4BB6D20DCE46@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <8668F661-FE6E-425C-A88B-0923C3D2494D@mac.com> Message-ID: At 11:57 AM -0500, 12/5/07, Jon Warms wrote: >Domain guessing, as I understood it, simply added "www" and ".com" >to each incomplete url, before the net even saw that. Then you've understood it incorrectly. As I've stated, it would be wrong of a browser to do that. Or for the computer to do that. A network administrator might want the computer to go to their 'jr' server when the user types 'jr' into the browser. If the browser or the computer decided that it should be allowed to add the www or the .com to the url, things would break. The user would never be able to get to the 'jr' server. The computer needs to be able to go to where it wants to go or else to receive an error message that where it wants to go is not possible. Then and only then should the browser or computer be able to decide to perhaps append additional information and try again. When Verizon is returning information that was not asked of them, they are wrong. You didn't ask for the Search page, they gave it to you without your permission. >As I now understand it, one of two things happened when the browser >saw an incomplete url. The browser does not recognize 'jr' as an incomplete URL. It knows nothing about the validity of a URL. The 'jr' URL may be entirely valid on any network where the administrator creates a server named 'jr'. The browser may instead receive a response from DNS servers that the URL requested returns an error. What the browser does with that error message is another issue that it did not get in this case. Your browser did not get an error message of a bad URL and it did not then ask Verizon to respond back with Verizon's Search page. >Either it a) recognized the url as incomplete It can't. The browser doesn't know right from wrong. That is not its job. > and immediately fixed it The browser can ask again after it gets an error message. > or b) submitted the incomplete url to the router, It doesn't submit it to the router, it submits it to the DNS server. > and when it failed, fixed the url. Yes, but no failure was returned. Only the IP address of the Verizon Search page and thus, that was what the Browser then displayed. > I had thought (a) was what happened, but maybe (b) was; either way, >the browser now never fixes the url but keeps trying for a valid >result. Why do you sit back and tell me this is the master's >decision and I should just relax and enjoy it? If the browser isn't getting an error message from Verizon, how can it 'fix' it? If Verizon gives back the IP address of the Verizon Search page, the browser knows nothing about that page not being the one that you wanted and as such, it asks the Verizon server for that pages info and then displays it. The browser did nothing wrong. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti The modem is the message. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From Robert at Ameeti.net Wed Dec 5 09:34:21 2007 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Wed Dec 5 09:35:27 2007 Subject: [X4U] Re: Leopard Issues - Some Responses In-Reply-To: <9820DF5A-78B7-4854-A251-D6EA231913DE@mac.com> References: <20071204200555.147E620BB8F6@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> <85F1A99D-9EA4-449F-B1AF-5F8225450DCF@mac.com> <9820DF5A-78B7-4854-A251-D6EA231913DE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:24 AM -0700, 12/5/07, Steve Self wrote: >Maybe try Safari on both machines with the Chevrolet test? > >In my 10.5.1 OS and Safari 3.0.4 typing in chevrolet and hitting >return brings up the chevy web site: http://www.chevrolet.com/ As good a test as any to show that this is not a Panther nor a Safari issue. I too got http://www.chevrolet.com when I merely typed 'chevrolet' in my address bar. Some people are just stuck on blaming Apple or Leopard for anything that does not work the way they think it should. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry S Truman <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From macmonster at myrealbox.com Wed Dec 5 14:03:37 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Wed Dec 5 14:03:54 2007 Subject: [X4U] Synchronize Question In-Reply-To: <3C1F85C0-C274-4462-B1C4-E7CD8D612D65@stangould.com> References: <3C1F85C0-C274-4462-B1C4-E7CD8D612D65@stangould.com> Message-ID: On 5 Dec 2007, at 15:33, Stan Gould wrote: > Question: Can the Address Book and Apple Mail in two Macs be > synchronized without having a .mac account? One is an iMac G-5 > (powerpc) and the other is a Pismo Powerbook; both running 10.4.9. In Address Book one can back up the addresses to a single file - you can probably email this to yourself and restore it on the other machine. I do something similar with iCal - it's not perfect, but I got tired of paying for .mac's terribly poor service. I have syncronised email by using an IMAP server for my mail. Mine is on my own server, but there are probably some free or low-cost services that provide this for you. Stroller. From jamesrob at sonic.net Wed Dec 5 16:50:47 2007 From: jamesrob at sonic.net (Jim Robertson) Date: Wed Dec 5 16:51:12 2007 Subject: [X4U] ISPs, DSL, dhcp vs. PPPoE, and VOIP Message-ID: Message title sounds like a 21st century equivalent of the "lions and tigers and bears - oh MY" plaint in the Wizard of Oz! I'll be moving into a brand new home in two weeks. I'm trying to consolidate the communications services that come into my home. Currently, I have 2 phone lines in my house. One carries the DSL signal, and my dim recollection when I set things up was that I couldn't use that line for DirecTV's middle of the night phone calls that update the schedule on my TiVo. In my new house, I'm considering getting just one POTS line that will bring in the DSL signal, and getting the second line via ATT's VOIP (CallVantage)service. I'm told there are converters that will allow FAX signals to run over that service-which will have a second phone number, but I'm not sure whether I'd be able to get my TV schedule updates if one line is DSL, the other VOIP. Another concern here is that the max download rate I can get at this address via DSL is 3 mbits/sec because of my linear distance from the nearest fiber closet. Anyone able to hazard a guess whether that's enough bandwidth for one line VOIP (it wouldn't be the primary voice line) as well as general internet access for 2-5 Macs (typical residential use, although my son does some bittorrent downloads - no hosting - when he thinks I'm not looking). I'd save a bit of money if paid ATT for my DSL service instead of my current ISP, but my recollection of PPPoE was that it was a nuisance. My current ISP will sell me four email addresses for $4/month so even if the ISP was ATT.net, we'd still be able to keep our xxx@sonic.net addresses. The Mac-relevant part of all this pertains to whether Leopard's "Back to My Mac feature will work more reliably with my home router having a static IP - I know, I've asked the question before, but I forgot about ATT's use of PPPoE and don't know if that would mess things up. Finally, does anyone have any opinions or knowledge about how happy I'd be getting 2 voice lines by paying ATT for ONE line capable of carrying DSL AND paying them for ATT's "CALLVANTAGE" VOIP? Would I be able to send and receive FAX transmissions on the VOIP "virtual" line? Would my DVRs be able to update DirecTV's schedules? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks so much for any opinions, suggestions, cautions, etc. I know some of this is off-topic, so the listmoms may prefer off-list replies. Jim Robertson -- Jim Robertson -- From jeff at carruthers.com Wed Dec 5 17:20:23 2007 From: jeff at carruthers.com (Jeff Carruthers) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:20:33 2007 Subject: [X4U] ISPs, DSL, dhcp vs. PPPoE, and VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97A2FE4A-5CFE-466D-9713-E03F762AB2B7@carruthers.com> On Dec 5, 2007, at 7:50 PM, Jim Robertson wrote: > Would I be able to send and > receive FAX transmissions on the VOIP "virtual" line? > > Jim Robertson JIm: I'm only going to address one of your questions. As far as sending faxes over a VOIP telephone line, I am able to do this using a Vonage service, but the VOIP runs over a fast 10 Mbps cable highspeed internet service via Cox. I was not having much success sending faxes with the initial service, which I believe provided only 1.5 Mbps. The problem, I believe, was the upload speed, which was a maximum of 256 Kbps. Also, if there was any serious downloading taking place on any computer on the network, the VOIP service degraded seriously and faxes would fail. If you get one line with DSL and a second line with VOIP, both from ATT, it would be important to ensure that the two services are running separately and that you in fact are not getting the VOIP service using the DSL on the first line. Given everything, my advice would be to see if there's a way to test the fax on an ATT VOIP line before paying for it. Hope this helps. Jeff ----------------------------------------------- Carruthers Communications Tel: 520-625-1913 292 N. Camino del Vate, Green Valley, AZ 85614 www.carruthers.com e-mail: jeff@carruthers.com From lists at marksmandesign.ca Wed Dec 5 17:49:19 2007 From: lists at marksmandesign.ca (Mark Des Cotes) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:53:25 2007 Subject: [X4U] What is private>var>vm>swapfile? Message-ID: I'm using WhatSize to help me clean out my hard drive. I notice an invisible folder on the HD called "private" that is 2.3 GB in size. The main culprit inside is a folder called "var" which in turn contains the folder "vm" which holds a bunch of files titled "swapfile#" Can someone tell me what these folders are for? Do they need to be that big? thanks Mark From neil at laubenthal.net Wed Dec 5 17:57:49 2007 From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal) Date: Wed Dec 5 17:58:00 2007 Subject: [X4U] What is private>var>vm>swapfile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2007, at 20:49, Mark Des Cotes wrote: > I'm using WhatSize to help me clean out my hard drive. I notice an > invisible folder on the HD called "private" that is 2.3 GB in size. > The main culprit inside is a folder called "var" which in turn > contains the folder "vm" which holds a bunch of files titled > "swapfile#" Can someone tell me what these folders are for? Do they > need to be that big? They're virtual memory files. All unix based operating systems use them and they get created when needed; with more being created over time. When you reboot the old ones get deleted. This is one of the reasons you need to leave free space on your boot drive. The size starts with a 64 MB one but they get progressively bigger. There will also be a sleepimage file in the same folder . . . it gets created whenever the machine goes to sleep and is the same size as however much installed RAM you have. From lists at marksmandesign.ca Wed Dec 5 19:38:07 2007 From: lists at marksmandesign.ca (Mark Des Cotes) Date: Wed Dec 5 19:42:10 2007 Subject: [X4U] Mail Downloads folder Message-ID: <54AC08F1-4942-4673-807E-62505AD0E01F@marksmandesign.ca> Hi all, Still cleaning out my HD. There's a folder called "Mail Downloads" in my User's Library folder. I've figured out that anytime I open an attachment in Mail without first saving it somewhere, it automatically gets saved to this folder. Does this folder keep growing until I manually delete the items? Or do they somehow get deleted automatically at some point? Mark From lstnmt at bresnan.net Wed Dec 5 20:12:07 2007 From: lstnmt at bresnan.net (Jens Selvig) Date: Wed Dec 5 20:12:17 2007 Subject: [X4U] What is private>var>vm>swapfile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Be cautious whilst cleaning on Unix system stuff. You can easily end up with a system that won't boot if you delete the wrong surplus stuff. Jens Selvig ...lost in Montana... On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Mark Des Cotes wrote: > I'm using WhatSize to help me clean out my hard drive. I notice an > invisible folder on the HD called "private" that is 2.3 GB in size. > The main culprit inside is a folder called "var" which in turn > contains the folder "vm" which holds a bunch of files titled > "swapfile#" Can someone tell me what these folders are for? Do they > need to be that big? > > thanks > > Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From jrj1120 at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 04:30:50 2007 From: jrj1120 at gmail.com (Jeff Johnson) Date: Thu Dec 6 04:32:18 2007 Subject: [X4U] What is private>var>vm>swapfile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15770d710712060430v6047a1barbf6ed9f730f93c8d@mail.gmail.com> If you want to reclaim some appreciable HD space, consider using Monolingual "Monolingual is a program for removing unnecessary language resources from Mac OS X, in order to reclaim several hundred megabytes of disk space. It requires at least Mac OS X 10.3.9 (Panther) and also works on Mac OS X 10.4(Tiger)." I wouldn't mess with any invisible Unix files unless you know exactly what you are doing... Jeff Glendale, WI On Dec 5, 2007 7:49 PM, Mark Des Cotes wrote: > I'm using WhatSize to help me clean out my hard drive. I notice an > invisible folder on the HD called "private" that is 2.3 GB in size. > The main culprit inside is a folder called "var" which in turn > contains the folder "vm" which holds a bunch of files titled > "swapfile#" Can someone tell me what these folders are for? Do they > need to be that big? > > thanks > > Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20071206/4a6d238b/attachment.html From michaelelliott at mac.com Thu Dec 6 04:57:56 2007 From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott) Date: Thu Dec 6 04:58:09 2007 Subject: [X4U] ISPs, DSL, dhcp vs. PPPoE, and VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67831CBA-C0DC-4259-B2D8-50892ACBC1E1@mac.com> Don't know about all the other issues, but you should be able to plug in an USB wireless unit that will allow your TiVO to access the programming information over the Internet instead of the phone. I have a TiVo-provided unit that works fine. -------------------- If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone. iPhone mail www.apple.com/iPhone On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:50 PM, Jim Robertson wrote: > Message title sounds like a 21st century equivalent of the "lions > and tigers > and bears - oh MY" plaint in the Wizard of Oz! > > I'll be moving into a brand new home in two weeks. I'm trying to > consolidate > the communications services that come into my home. > > Currently, I have 2 phone lines in my house. One carries the DSL > signal, and > my dim recollection when I set things up was that I couldn't use > that line > for DirecTV's middle of the night phone calls that update the > schedule on my > TiVo. In my new house, I'm considering getting just one POTS line > that will > bring in the DSL signal, and getting the second line via ATT's VOIP > (CallVantage)service. I'm told there are converters that will allow > FAX > signals to run over that service-which will have a second phone > number, but > I'm not sure whether I'd be able to get my TV schedule updates if > one line > is DSL, the other VOIP. Another concern here is that the max > download rate I > can get at this address via DSL is 3 mbits/sec because of my linear > distance > from the nearest fiber closet. Anyone able to hazard a guess whether > that's > enough bandwidth for one line VOIP (it wouldn't be the primary voice > line) > as well as general internet access for 2-5 Macs (typical residential > use, > although my son does some bittorrent downloads - no hosting - when > he thinks > I'm not looking). > > I'd save a bit of money if paid ATT for my DSL service instead of my > current > ISP, but my recollection of PPPoE was that it was a nuisance. My > current ISP > will sell me four email addresses for $4/month so even if the ISP was > ATT.net, we'd still be able to keep our xxx@sonic.net addresses. > > The Mac-relevant part of all this pertains to whether Leopard's > "Back to My > Mac feature will work more reliably with my home router having a > static IP - > I know, I've asked the question before, but I forgot about ATT's use > of > PPPoE and don't know if that would mess things up. > > Finally, does anyone have any opinions or knowledge about how happy > I'd be > getting 2 voice lines by paying ATT for ONE line capable of carrying > DSL AND > paying them for ATT's "CALLVANTAGE" VOIP? Would I be able to send and > receive FAX transmissions on the VOIP "virtual" line? Would my DVRs > be able > to update DirecTV's schedules? > > Sorry for all the questions. Thanks so much for any opinions, > suggestions, > cautions, etc. I know some of this is off-topic, so the listmoms may > prefer > off-list replies. > > Jim Robertson > -- > > > > Jim Robertson > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From kuestner at macnews.de Thu Dec 6 05:07:22 2007 From: kuestner at macnews.de (B. Kuestner) Date: Thu Dec 6 05:07:45 2007 Subject: [X4U] What is private>var>vm>swapfile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a few comments on Neil's helpful reply. > They're virtual memory files. All unix based operating systems use > them and they get created when needed; with more being created over > time. You can reduce their size by adding more RAM to your Mac. You can also reduce their size by avoiding memory intensive workload scenarios: - Lots of apps open, especially when some of them are memory hogs, see next line - Avoid memory hogs: Safari with lots of tabs, Photoshop etc. with lots of images, ... - Fast user switching > When you reboot the old ones get deleted. Up to Tiger OS X keeps at least some of them across restarts once they have been created. Leopard has changed the way VM is handled: They are not more flexible in size and can also shrink and not just grow. You can use tools like Onyx to delete them. A restart immediately after deleting the files is mandatory. To save disk space: I find DiskInventory's graphic representation more helpful than WhatSize. Most Macs also ship with Garageband installed: It requires lots of disk space not just in the app itself but the sample files and in / Library it drops lots of audio files. Monolingual is helpful, but I have heard that some apps from Adobe will not work afterwards. Here's another change with Leopard: Apps can be "signed" and will not run if they were tampered with. So for instance removing the unneeded language files falls in the "tampering" category, so that Leopard's Mail will not start afterwards. > There will also be a sleepimage file in the same folder . . . it > gets created whenever the machine goes to sleep and is the same > size as however much installed RAM you have. This depends on your Mac. My iBook does not support the "hibernate" mode. So it does not create this file. Bj?rn From macmonster at myrealbox.com Thu Dec 6 05:36:18 2007 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Thu Dec 6 05:36:32 2007 Subject: [X4U] ISPs, DSL, dhcp vs. PPPoE, and VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07C7CD7E-F956-4CF9-B22F-AA60E3612920@myrealbox.com> On 6 Dec 2007, at 00:50, Jim Robertson wrote: > ... One carries the DSL signal, and > my dim recollection when I set things up was that I couldn't use > that line > for DirecTV's middle of the night phone calls that update the > schedule on my > TiVo. I believe this is incorrect, but it is often cited (for fax machines & restaurant credit-card machines here in the UK), so distance from the exchange / line noise may be a factor. Fax & the Tivo data phonecalls are designed to go over a regular voice telephone line, and you have splitters which allow you to talk at the same time as your DSL is active - I have yet to be convinced of any reason why modem-fax-data calls should not work over the voice section. Indeed, I have many customers here in the UK using their Sky satellite subscription boxes on the same line as their ADSL. > ..Another concern here is that the max download rate I > can get at this address via DSL is 3 mbits/sec because of my linear > distance > from the nearest fiber closet. Anyone able to hazard a guess > whether that's > enough bandwidth for one line VOIP (it wouldn't be the primary > voice line) > as well as general internet access for 2-5 Macs (typical > residential use, > although my son does some bittorrent