From chowse at charter.net  Tue Jan  1 00:13:12 2008
From: chowse at charter.net (Charles Howse)
Date: Tue Jan  1 00:13:24 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BE95965C-90AD-47EB-8E3D-99652924301F@charter.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Ed Gould wrote:

> I subscribe to a *extremely* technical computer email list.


What list is it?  (So I can avoid it)  ;-)

--
Thanks,
Charles
http://bubbabbq.homeunix.net



From edeleonjr at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 00:27:59 2008
From: edeleonjr at gmail.com (Ernest De Leon)
Date: Tue Jan  1 00:28:08 2008
Subject: [X4U] Python or Ruby Web Developers
Message-ID: <ff67f9f70801010027g6ee44300pf68193a0fa52a564@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to see if there are any python or ruby web developers on the
list.  I have been using python for a long time, but just started to look at
python web frameworks and such.  Ruby also interests me although I have no
experience with Ruby.

Thanks,
Ernest
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080101/7ed0fdf2/attachment.html
From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Jan  1 03:56:02 2008
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue Jan  1 03:57:30 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 1:13 AM, Ed Gould wrote:

> Once in a great while I post a URL that wraps the line.
> I get flamed for this

This is an easy manual fix on your part. Simply put your url in angle  
brackets, viz,

  <http://www.offendingdomain.com/put/your/extra/long/annoying/line/breaking/uniform/resource/locator/in/angle/brackets/and/they/wont/get/line/munged.html 
 >

...and Apple Mail shouldn't break them.

Lessee if this works.

Cheers,
RAH
Yet another refugee who misses Eudora...
From jessup at san.rr.com  Tue Jan  1 05:30:26 2008
From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup)
Date: Tue Jan  1 05:30:49 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>

At 0 13  -0600 1/1/08, Ed Gould wrote:
>I subscribe to a *extremely* technical computer email list. Once in 
>a great while I post a URL that wraps the line.
<snip>
>One suggested I put "<" and ">" before and after the URL. I did that 
>and according to them it still violated the RFC. In other words they 
>are a hypercritical bunch and are of the type that do know it all 
>(sigh). I am *NOT* conversant in the RFC's to try and even argue one 
>way or the other. How would any of you handle this type of situation?

They don't sound like a fun bunch! But it's strange that they would 
say to use brackets and then object. It makes me wonder if you did 
something I have seen from time to time:  might you have put the URL 
in brackets but omitted the "http"?  I've seen people trying to do 
the right thing, posting a URL like this:

<www.google.com>

Of course, that doesn't work, even though they used brackets. THIS would work:

<http://www.google.com>

Might that have been what happened?

Daly
----------------------

From fin at finseth.com  Tue Jan  1 06:40:51 2008
From: fin at finseth.com (Craig A. Finseth)
Date: Tue Jan  1 06:41:22 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net> (message from
	Ed Gould on Tue, 1 Jan 2008 00:13:50 -0600)
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080101144051.6980876D04@isis.visi.com>

   I subscribe to a *extremely* technical computer email list. Once in a  
   great while I post a URL that wraps the line.

I parse your sentence to read "an extrememly technical list about
computer email."

So, you subscribe to a extremely technical list (your words) about how
to do email properly, use a program that doesn't, and complain when
people call you on it?

Why are you bothering with the list in the first place?

Craig
From jrj1120 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 06:52:00 2008
From: jrj1120 at gmail.com (Jeff Johnson)
Date: Tue Jan  1 06:52:10 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
In-Reply-To: <A6B483F1-F1DA-437A-B3E2-D5FC9EF2EDD2@ca.rr.com>
References: <A6B483F1-F1DA-437A-B3E2-D5FC9EF2EDD2@ca.rr.com>
Message-ID: <15770d710801010652s2a69188asac135fa6e562504c@mail.gmail.com>

SnapzPro captures streaming video and saves it as a .mov file. Excellent app
from Ambrosia.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/

Jeff


On Dec 30, 2007 4:59 PM, Crandon David <tabdave@ca.rr.com> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> So what's the best program to use to capture streaming video? I want
> to watch the new Jackass 2.5 movie available on Blockbuster site, buy
> my Mac is too slow to play it with streaming.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080101/697d13b8/attachment.html
From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Tue Jan  1 06:52:27 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Tue Jan  1 06:52:40 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>


On 31 Dec 2007, at 14:35, Mary C. Youra wrote:

> We killed my mother's iMac G4 (the desklamp variety), and I'm  
> wondering if there is any thing we can do to bring it back to  
> working order, or if we should part it out?

I'm sure working order is quite attainable.

 From the description of the symptoms the worst case would be  
replacement of the hard-drive - in fact, I might recommend this in  
any case, as it's quite possible the corruption of the filesystem was  
caused by impending hard-drive failure (a smartd status of "good" is  
not conclusively reliable - I think a drive may fail showing this  
around 1/2 the time). If you can recover the machine to booting  
status then you could clone the current drive to a new one before  
replacing it.

I don't think it's too hard to replace the drive in an iLamp. All the  
components are in the base, after all.

Stroller.
From mcyoura at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  1 07:12:42 2008
From: mcyoura at ix.netcom.com (Mary C. Youra)
Date: Tue Jan  1 07:12:58 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <0C4AD0EE-13DB-4212-8139-76E27BDEF5B0@mac.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
	<0C4AD0EE-13DB-4212-8139-76E27BDEF5B0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2F7C2C88-9624-4DE6-8BBC-498D797B7CCF@ix.netcom.com>


On Dec 31, 2007, at 11:40 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> I would leave the directory repair function of either Disk Utility  
> or Disk Warrior running for a LONG time.  Like over 12 hours long.  
> Especially with these multi-gigabyte drives that are around nowadays.

Okay, Michael, so both you and Linda think Disk Warrior should be  
given another chance at it, and we may as well try that.

My husband thought that after having Erased the drive, when he  
couldn't even mount a disk to install, that there wasn't a directory  
for Disk Warrior to rebuild. Is he simply wrong? (These things aren't  
exactly the most portable, so we haven't toted it to our house yet to  
work on. It's still at my mother's house.)

I was finally able to consult the Alsoft Knowledge base (when I'd  
first tried, its pages wouldn't load, so I decided to consult this  
list). I am now very confused, as it says the "speed inhibited by  
disk malfunction" message indicates a hardware problem, like a hard  
drive failure, whereas everything I've read about Disk Utility's  
message that the "Keys out of order" and "B-tree" is software  
related. Plus, the hard drive had passed the SMART function test of  
Disk Warrior. However, we are  vaguely remembering something else in  
the recent past--something which had made us install SMART Reporter  
on the iMac to begin with, which may indicate that the drive was  
going bad. Frankly, the hard drive would be preferable (cheaper), I  
think.

Also on the Alsoft Knowledge base, they suggest running Disk Warrior  
in target mode to .  I do have an extra clamshell (with 10.4.11; I  
use it in the kitchen) I can use to run Disk Warrior with the iMac in  
target mode, and just leave it running without inconveniencing anyone.

I'll keep your offer in mind, Michael, should this not work.
From tabdave at ca.rr.com  Tue Jan  1 07:59:17 2008
From: tabdave at ca.rr.com (Crandon David)
Date: Tue Jan  1 07:59:24 2008
Subject: [X4U] Mail Crashing
In-Reply-To: <C1EAB3D0-24E2-4772-BDA4-42E5CE761321@myrealbox.com>
References: <E18AD97C-0FC9-46A4-B2D6-84F530B7D2E3@ca.rr.com>
	<C1EAB3D0-24E2-4772-BDA4-42E5CE761321@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <A94F3518-95A0-4F97-B704-3A0A808A964C@ca.rr.com>

Thanks everyone, this suggestion (someone else suggested it also, but  
I inadvertently deleted their post) seems to have worked.

Thanks,

David



On Dec 31, 2007, at 2:31 AM, Stroller wrote:

>
> On 30 Dec 2007, at 22:48, Crandon David wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> Lately, Mail has been freezing whenever I press the Junk button. I  
>> get the spinning beach ball which never stops.
>
> With Mail.app closed first, have you tried deleting "~/Library/Mail/ 
> Envelope Index"?
> ("~" standing for "home" - "/User/stroller", "/User/david" or "/ 
> User/crandond" or whatever)
>
> Once you reopen Mail.app you should find that you have to wait  
> whilst messages are reindexed.
> Does this make any difference?
>
> Stroller.
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp:// 
> www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal

From michaelelliott at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 08:17:04 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Tue Jan  1 08:17:20 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
In-Reply-To: <15770d710801010652s2a69188asac135fa6e562504c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A6B483F1-F1DA-437A-B3E2-D5FC9EF2EDD2@ca.rr.com>
	<15770d710801010652s2a69188asac135fa6e562504c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAB63E15-ED94-448F-8A6C-BE0271F976E6@mac.com>

Maybe snapzpro has evolved a lot since I last used it. However, a  
simple screen capture program still doesn't solve his original problem  
that he wants to save the stream because his playback is so stuttery.  
All snapzpro would accomplish is a excellent capture of a stuttering  
video. I think.

--------------------
If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone.

iPhone mail
www.apple.com/iPhone

On Jan 1, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Jeff Johnson <jrj1120@gmail.com> wrote:

> SnapzPro captures streaming video and saves it as a .mov file.  
> Excellent app from Ambrosia.
>
> http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2007 4:59 PM, Crandon David < tabdave@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> So what's the best program to use to capture streaming video? I want
> to watch the new Jackass 2.5 movie available on Blockbuster site, buy
> my Mac is too slow to play it with streaming.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
>
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080101/c58d5e8a/attachment-0001.html
From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  1 08:17:39 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Tue Jan  1 08:19:59 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
Message-ID: <5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 7:30 AM, Daly Jessup wrote:
> ---------------SNIP-------------------------
> They don't sound like a fun bunch! But it's strange that they would  
> say to use brackets and then object. It makes me wonder if you did  
> something I have seen from time to time:  might you have put the  
> URL in brackets but omitted the "http"?  I've seen people trying to  
> do the right thing, posting a URL like this:
>
> <www.google.com>
>
> Of course, that doesn't work, even though they used brackets. THIS  
> would work:
>
> <http://www.google.com>
>
> Might that have been what happened?
>
> Daly
>

Daly:

I did try your suggestion and the APPLE mailer still broke the URL. I  
got chastised for this as well.  Just to give the group the flavor of  
the list, I am enclosing a portion of one complaint:
Of course when it shows up in my mailbox APPLE Mail seems to put it  
back together and I get a good URL
--------

But, PKB (sort of)  The "resume" URL, as it appears on, e.g.:

     http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0712&L=ibm-main&P=R87955

... gives "404 Not Found" from Lynx, Firefox, probably many
others because of the trailing '>'.  An excerpt from the
HTML source is:

...see &lt;<a href="http://patriot.net/~+shmuel/resume/ 
brief.html&amp;gt;">http...

There's a similar problem in URLs appearing in messages from
Ed F. and dasdbill; perhaps from others using AOL.COM, because
of a trailing ')' or '_'.

And Ed G. suggested in frustration that you, not he, submit a
PMR on Apple's Mail program.  Well, one thing I _do_ like about
IBM is that I can submit PMRs (when IBMLink is working); they're
answered; sometimes they're even fixed.  I have lots of problems
with Apple's Mail; almost as many with Thunderbird.  They try
to be impossibly smart -- "Content-type: text/plain;format=flowed"
is oxymoronic: "format=flowed" means it contains markup, and
if it contains markup, it's not plain.

If I post messages on ********** web interface, I never have
URL wrapping problems.

I've got "mutt" built and stumbling on my MacBook and Solaris;
I need to <gasp> get sendmail/postfix configured on the MacBook,
then I can use mutt and not worry about URL wrapping.  I guess
I'm an Email Luddite.

RFC 1738 contains a recommendation (not a standard) for

     "APPENDIX: Recommendations for URLs in Context"

... the URL should be surrounded by "<URL:" and ">", and the
processor should ignore linear and vertical whitespace.
Example:

     <URL: http:// www . ietf . org/
           rfc/
           rfc1738.txt >

... ought to work.  This convention is not widely respected,
but wouldn't it be nice if LISTSERV implemented it?
--------------------

Ed

From XPressoBean at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 09:11:22 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Tue Jan  1 09:11:33 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
In-Reply-To: <AAB63E15-ED94-448F-8A6C-BE0271F976E6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C39FD05A.129214%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/1/08 10:17 AM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Maybe snapzpro has evolved a lot since I last used it.

I don't know when the last time you used it was, and you don't say, but it
continues to evolve. It's a good piece of software -- no judgment made as to
its appropriateness to this particular need.


From michaelelliott at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 09:49:58 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Tue Jan  1 09:50:34 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
In-Reply-To: <C39FD05A.129214%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C39FD05A.129214%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <300DEF97-85E1-4D9D-B979-B46BB59EE4AF@mac.com>

I guess I'm being doubtful that it can capture a full resolution large  
area decent framerate version of streaming video. Capturing and  
encoding on the fly takes a lot of horsepower--which I doubt the  
original poster's mac has, considering that he can't even watch the  
stream on his Mac.

And I wasn't judging how good SnapZPro is. I've used it before. Its a  
great program

--------------------
If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone.

iPhone mail
www.apple.com/iPhone

On Jan 1, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Linda <xpressobean@mac.com> wrote:

> I don't know when the last time you used it was, and you don't say,  
> but it
> continues to evolve. It's a good piece of software -- no judgment  
> made as to
> its appropriateness to this particular need.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
From tlmiller at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 10:45:32 2008
From: tlmiller at mac.com (T.L. Miller)
Date: Tue Jan  1 10:45:40 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
In-Reply-To: <C39FD05A.129214%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <AAB63E15-ED94-448F-8A6C-BE0271F976E6@mac.com>
	<C39FD05A.129214%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20080101184532.574076281@smtp.mac.com>

Is iShowU something you can use?



 
Tom Miller
..................................................
"The only time we see the middle of the road is as  
we run from side to side." R.O.Clark 
...................................................





From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  1 11:49:48 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Tue Jan  1 11:52:07 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
Message-ID: <300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 5:56 AM, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

>
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 1:13 AM, Ed Gould wrote:
>
>> Once in a great while I post a URL that wraps the line.
>> I get flamed for this
>
> This is an easy manual fix on your part. Simply put your url in  
> angle brackets, viz,
>
>  <http://www.offendingdomain.com/put/your/extra/long/annoying/line/ 
> breaking/uniform/resource/locator/in/angle/brackets/and/they/wont/ 
> get/line/munged.html>
>
> ...and Apple Mail shouldn't break them.
>
> Lessee if this works.
>
I tried that and it didn't work. I also got "dinged" for doing it.  
Apple may handle it OK internally as I when I got a copy back it was  
correct but almost none of the other people said it worked. I sent  
along in a later post what had happened. I had even asked before I  
sent it if it was OK to put the "<" and ">" sign(s) before and after.  
The answer was don't blame us if it doesn't work. Of course it didn't.

This list is mainly made of extremely anal retentive types and  
anything that is not 100 percent correct makes the wording of the  
entire email incorrect (although it probably is). I am just a  
whipping boy because of mails apparent variation from the RFC's. They  
make their living being right all the time.

Ed
  
From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  1 12:01:27 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Tue Jan  1 12:03:47 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <20080101144051.6980876D04@isis.visi.com>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<20080101144051.6980876D04@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <53568674-4D1D-4148-A67F-18DB8AD9A67D@comcast.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Craig A. Finseth wrote:

>    I subscribe to a *extremely* technical computer email list. Once  
> in a
>    great while I post a URL that wraps the line.
>
> I parse your sentence to read "an extrememly technical list about
> computer email."

It is *NOT* a list about email its a list of people who are extremely  
proficient on certain type of OTHER computers (not MACs). They are a  
strange breed (yes I used to be one) of extremely intelligent and  
extremely anal type professional computer types.
>
> So, you subscribe to a extremely technical list (your words) about how
> to do email properly, use a program that doesn't, and complain when
> people call you on it?

I am hoping to figure out how to correct Apple's email program so it  
meets the proper RFC's. There maybe (for all I know some option in  
MAIL that makes APPLE mail program ) an option that forces mail to be  
all RFC compliant.

>
> Why are you bothering with the list in the first place?

See above.
>
> Craig
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal

From douglist at macnauchtan.com  Tue Jan  1 12:24:48 2008
From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt)
Date: Tue Jan  1 12:25:08 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
	<300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p05100302c3a04d60e893@[192.168.1.14]>

Apple mail uses format-flowed which is described in RFC2646. That is a procedure for placing returns in long lines to keep the length below 80 characters.

It also uses spaces after the returns to flag them as something to removed before displaying a message. It all worked pretty well after it was introduced by Qualcomm / Eudora.

RFC3676 introduced a "delsp=yes" item to the format-flowed standard in 2004. The idea was to move the spacing control to the client's side rather than the source. Apple mail takes it seriously and manages to introduce two spaces together when wrapping lines. Many mail clients don't know about that and remove only one of the spaces that were specified in the original format-flowed. And double spaces within the <> syntax are not handled properly either.

Apple has been told about it and has explicitly said "we're right and they're wrong." So if your recipient's mail client has not been rewritten since 2004 you're in trouble.

Now the SMTP spec calls for allowing line lengths of up to 998 characters and the only mail clients that can't handle that are ones written for thermal paper or teletype machines. I now tell Eudora NOT to use format-flowed and just let the lines run on. Mail clients then wrap the lines fine at display and long URL's don't get extra returns added in the first place so there's nothing to remove. Try changing your window width and see if this message wraps to your new size.

So how does one tell Apple mail to do that? I haven't figured that out and besides my wife who sends me broken links all the time thinks Apple mail is just great.  Sigh.

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt>
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2646.txt>
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt>

-- 

Applescript syntax is like English spelling:
Roughly, though not thoroughly, thought through.
From douglist at macnauchtan.com  Tue Jan  1 12:29:42 2008
From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt)
Date: Tue Jan  1 12:29:56 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <53568674-4D1D-4148-A67F-18DB8AD9A67D@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<20080101144051.6980876D04@isis.visi.com>
	<53568674-4D1D-4148-A67F-18DB8AD9A67D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p05100303c3a052b729d8@[192.168.1.14]>

At 14:01 -0600 1/1/08, Ed Gould wrote:
>It is *NOT* a list about email its a list of people who are extremely  proficient on certain type of OTHER computers (not MACs). They are a  strange breed (yes I used to be one) of extremely intelligent and  extremely anal type professional computer types.

So how about a pointer to the list? Is it all that private? Does it have an archive?
-- 

--> From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <--
From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  1 12:40:47 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Tue Jan  1 12:43:11 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <p05100303c3a052b729d8@[192.168.1.14]>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<20080101144051.6980876D04@isis.visi.com>
	<53568674-4D1D-4148-A67F-18DB8AD9A67D@comcast.net>
	<p05100303c3a052b729d8@[192.168.1.14]>
Message-ID: <EE6D2086-E9AF-4E22-B9E7-9B84FD1637BA@comcast.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 2:29 PM, Doug McNutt wrote:

> At 14:01 -0600 1/1/08, Ed Gould wrote:
>> It is *NOT* a list about email its a list of people who are  
>> extremely  proficient on certain type of OTHER computers (not  
>> MACs). They are a  strange breed (yes I used to be one) of  
>> extremely intelligent and  extremely anal type professional  
>> computer types.
>
> So how about a pointer to the list? Is it all that private? Does it  
> have an archive?
> -- 
>
> --> From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to  
> admit it. <--

No its not private and in order to look at the archives you must be a  
member. This is also sent to usenet. However if you post to usenet it  
does not get sent to the listserv.

I will post it here be prepared to being inundated with email(offhand  
I do not know what the usenet group is):

For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to listserv@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

From XPressoBean at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 13:01:53 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Tue Jan  1 13:02:10 2008
Subject: [X4U] Apple's Mail Application
In-Reply-To: <300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C3A00661.1292D6%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/1/08 1:49 PM, Ed Gould wrote:

> I tried that and it didn't work. I also got "dinged" for doing it.
> Apple may handle it OK internally as I when I got a copy back it was
> correct but almost none of the other people said it worked.

That sounds like the fault of the server or mail list software that's being
used, then. Yahoo often munges URLs within < >, and HTML often munges URLs
within < >, but using the < > has more chance of working than any other way
I know of. I'd hazard a guess the other guys are using Outlook, which
apparently has a reputation for ignoring those angle brackets (which I
didn't know until I started looking for a solution to your problem).

Given that using < > around URLs has been around since 8/1998, and is itself
found in an RFC -- RFC2396, to be exact, it's a wonder that the other list
members gripe about it! <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt>

You aren't the only person to notice this "breaking" of URLs in mail from
Mail. Here's a blog entry from 10-19-2007 -- noticed, but not fixed, except
to use tinyurl or snipurl or one of the other shortening services:

<http://notbrainsurgery.livejournal.com/tag/apple>

There's an Add Hyperlink item in Mail (Under Edit, near the bottom, you'll
find Add Hyperlink). You might try testing that to see if the other members
of that other list are satisfied with it.

Sorry they beat on you. I'm on some lists that are that way. My sympathies.

~Linda
-- 
Recently released: _This Water Goes North_ from M?nit?n?hk Books.
Hardcover, nonfiction. 240 pages + 16-page color photo insert.
Order at <http://www.thiswatergoesnorth.com>.
Thank you for supporting small/independent publishers!



From lists at thefragens.com  Tue Jan  1 13:26:47 2008
From: lists at thefragens.com (Andy Fragen)
Date: Tue Jan  1 13:26:55 2008
Subject: [X4U] Syncing two Mac's iTunes Library
In-Reply-To: <09438AED-B795-4B24-8A3E-FCD35BB29F2A@mac.com>
References: <74C2A99A-BD18-49F3-AFB1-02AA160891D4@mac.com>
	<09438AED-B795-4B24-8A3E-FCD35BB29F2A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D6ABAB18-5184-4355-8999-9E7435A6E944@thefragens.com>

I think if you can mount the disk on both computers then from the  
Library, highlight everything and Cmd-drag it into your local iTunes  
Library, from within iTunes. It should create an alias to the mounted  
file without copying.

If your iTunes Library is constantly changing this might have to be  
repeated.

Let me know how it works.

Andy

On Dec 31, 2007, at 8:43 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> I would boot one in target disk mode via Firewire, navigate to the  
> appropriate directory, and then use the File-->Add to library command.
>
> Anyone?
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Russell McGaha wrote:
>
>> I've two Mac's that I'd like to synchronies the iTunes Libraries  
>> on.  Is there an easier way than mounting one on the other via AFP  
>> and doing it manually??
>
>
>

From alsan at speakeasy.net  Tue Jan  1 13:39:29 2008
From: alsan at speakeasy.net (Al Grappone)
Date: Tue Jan  1 13:39:43 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
	<300810F9-D37D-4B6E-BED7-F2F735E67736@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5CE77223-9157-45F5-8728-0F4CE667A77C@speakeasy.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 11:49, Ed Gould wrote:

> They make their living being right all the time.

Dump 'em

From ronsteinke at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 14:00:22 2008
From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke)
Date: Tue Jan  1 14:00:32 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
	<939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>

On Jan 1, 2008, at 6:52 AM, Stroller wrote:

> I don't think it's too hard to replace the drive in an iLamp. All  
> the components are in the base, after all.

Without the technical knowledge of the inner construction/assembly of  
the iMac (iLamp model), I do not suggest the owner attempt to open the  
case to replace the drive. There are a couple of delicate connections  
that can be damaged by inexperienced hands.
From jessup at san.rr.com  Tue Jan  1 14:39:20 2008
From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup)
Date: Tue Jan  1 14:41:07 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
	<939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>
	<324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c3a071591efb@[10.0.1.15]>

At 14 00  -0800 1/1/08, Ronald Steinke wrote:
>On Jan 1, 2008, at 6:52 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>>I don't think it's too hard to replace the drive in an iLamp. All 
>>the components are in the base, after all.
>
>Without the technical knowledge of the inner construction/assembly 
>of the iMac (iLamp model), I do not suggest the owner attempt to 
>open the case to replace the drive. There are a couple of delicate 
>connections that can be damaged by inexperienced hands.

Actually, it isn't THAT hard, but does involve a Torx screwdriver, 
detaching a number of cables, and replacing thermal paste at the end. 
If the original poster is familiar in general with such things it 
isn't that big a deal. But if he/she isn't, it could be intimidating.

Daly
----------------------

From michaelelliott at mac.com  Tue Jan  1 14:48:31 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Tue Jan  1 14:48:43 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
	<939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>
	<324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DAF865F8-9797-4CAB-9748-CB656B16932C@mac.com>

I have a .pdf of the process somewhere. They are also easy to find by  
Google

On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Ronald Steinke wrote:

> On Jan 1, 2008, at 6:52 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>> I don't think it's too hard to replace the drive in an iLamp. All  
>> the components are in the base, after all.
>
> Without the technical knowledge of the inner construction/assembly  
> of the iMac (iLamp model), I do not suggest the owner attempt to  
> open the case to replace the drive. There are a couple of delicate  
> connections that can be damaged by inexperienced hands.
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal

From douglist at macnauchtan.com  Tue Jan  1 15:25:16 2008
From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt)
Date: Tue Jan  1 15:25:25 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<F732E64F-8F3F-4CF3-BB7D-B3C49E87E2DB@shipwright.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300c3a0775bd5ac@[192.168.1.14]>

At 06:56 -0500 1/1/08, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>This is an easy manual fix on your part. Simply put your url in angle 
>brackets, viz,
>  <http://www.offendingdomain.com/put/your/extra/long/annoying/line/breaking/uniform/resource/locator/in/angle/brackets/and/they/wont/get/line/munged.html
> >
>
>...and Apple Mail shouldn't break them.
>
>Lessee if this works.

Careful analysis - using Eudora 5.1 - of that by copy of the entire message, with blah-blah on so Eudora just displays what it got, and a subsequent paste into an MPW file.  This is what I see after replacing real spaces with (sp) and line ends with (rtn).

(sp)(sp)<http://www.offendingdomain.com/put/your/extra/long/annoying/line/breaking/uniform/resource/locator/in/angle/brackets/and/they/wont/get/line/munged.html(sp)(rtn)(sp)>(rtn)

The combination of two spaces separated by a return is typical of Apple Mail. "Old fashioned format-flowed capable clients remove the (rtn) and the space following it but they leave in the space before the (rtn) and, in this case, the trailing >.

Apple claims that including delsp=yes in this header absolves them of responsibility.

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

I don't know why the first return was inserted so far into the line. In most cases I have seen a max line length of about 80 characters. It may be that the made-up url contains only [a-z/]. Most long URL's include a GET portion with [=;?] stuff where a break option might be programmed into Apple Mail.app.

-- 

--> From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <--
From randy at macattorney.com  Tue Jan  1 15:37:11 2008
From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer)
Date: Tue Jan  1 15:37:19 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Ed Gould wrote:

> I did try your suggestion and the APPLE mailer still broke the URL.  
> I got chastised for this as well.

Actually the problem may have nothing to do with Mail.app.  I am  
regularly chastised for not putting angle brackets around URL's on  
the Mac-L list.  However, even when I do, URL's show up broken.   
After some research into the problem, I understand it is the type of  
server than my ISP uses that causes this, not Mail.app.

Also, I've found that newbies often can't follow links enclosed in  
angle brackets because when they copy and paste the URL, complete  
with angle brackets, that the angle brackets keep the URL from  
working in some browsers.  (As you noted, using angle brackets is not  
a universally accepted convention.)

I'm sometimes used URL shortening services, like TinyURL, but then I  
run afoul of folks who are too paranoid to click on a shortened URL  
for fear that it might take them somewhere bad.  (Which is a silly  
argument.  They  know that I created and am offering the shortened  
URL, and I am a known user of the group.  Also, a "regular" URL  
carries no guarantees that it will take you to where it proports to  
be taking you on its face.)

So...you can't win.  I recommend that you do what you think is best,  
and ignore the pedants.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________



From Robert at Ameeti.net  Tue Jan  1 08:37:16 2008
From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti)
Date: Tue Jan  1 17:31:50 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p062408d6c3a01b5ac96e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:17 AM -0600, 1/1/08, Ed Gould wrote:

>I have lots of problems with Apple's Mail; almost as many with 
>Thunderbird.  They try
>to be impossibly smart -- "Content-type: text/plain;format=flowed" 
>is oxymoronic: "format=flowed" means it contains markup, and if it 
>contains markup, it's not plain.

The above statement shows that this individual has read one half of 
the specification and has chosen to then whine about things that he 
really doesn't understand. Text can be of Type/Plain and also have 
format:flowed without any conflict. He is as he says, a luddite that 
just doesn't like to accept the new (5 years) adoption of format 
flowed because it breaks his older standard email client.

I'd just use your < and > to produce the best wrapping possible and 
ignore the rest of their complaints. Do include the http:// as Daly 
suggested. It makes a difference.

Also note that some misconfigured email servers can break your work 
regardless of your efforts and this will be out of your control.
-- 

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Robert Ameeti

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.
            -- Johnny Carson
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From mcyoura at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  1 19:02:48 2008
From: mcyoura at ix.netcom.com (Mary C. Youra)
Date: Tue Jan  1 19:02:59 2008
Subject: [X4U] iMac dead?
In-Reply-To: <324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
References: <9546A894-8B40-483F-B3B4-6D2EC3C2722E@ix.netcom.com>
	<939D21E1-522B-4B6E-9376-97A2FC889F47@myrealbox.com>
	<324A9AF6-3A79-4882-AF55-DA3DCAF9153B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <996F0333-689B-402F-84FA-3AB9F5361AB4@ix.netcom.com>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 5:00 PM, Ronald Steinke wrote:

> Without the technical knowledge of the inner construction/assembly  
> of the iMac (iLamp model), I do not suggest the owner attempt to  
> open the case to replace the drive. There are a couple of delicate  
> connections that can be damaged by inexperienced hands.

Not to worry. There is no way I would attempt this by myself. I don't  
even trust myself to install extra ram. I like to know what's  
involved and would examine a .pdf, but more to appreciate someone  
else's skillset.
From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  1 19:24:28 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Tue Jan  1 19:26:50 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
	<409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>
Message-ID: <E3EF7A38-0BB1-441A-8A78-1B0557FC507A@comcast.net>


On Jan 1, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

>
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Ed Gould wrote:
>
>> I did try your suggestion and the APPLE mailer still broke the  
>> URL. I got chastised for this as well.
>
> Actually the problem may have nothing to do with Mail.app.  I am  
> regularly chastised for not putting angle brackets around URL's on  
> the Mac-L list.  However, even when I do, URL's show up broken.   
> After some research into the problem, I understand it is the type  
> of server than my ISP uses that causes this, not Mail.app.
>
> Also, I've found that newbies often can't follow links enclosed in  
> angle brackets because when they copy and paste the URL, complete  
> with angle brackets, that the angle brackets keep the URL from  
> working in some browsers.  (As you noted, using angle brackets is  
> not a universally accepted convention.)
>
> I'm sometimes used URL shortening services, like TinyURL, but then  
> I run afoul of folks who are too paranoid to click on a shortened  
> URL for fear that it might take them somewhere bad.  (Which is a  
> silly argument.  They  know that I created and am offering the  
> shortened URL, and I am a known user of the group.  Also, a  
> "regular" URL carries no guarantees that it will take you to where  
> it proports to be taking you on its face.)
>
> So...you can't win.  I recommend that you do what you think is  
> best, and ignore the pedants.
>
> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
> -------------SNIP----------------

Randy you are probably right. I just can't win. Thanks for the  
advice. I was starting to think that the MAIL.app was/is broken and I  
couldn't do to much about it. It looks like (to me) that you just go  
with what you get the least amount of complaints about. Thanks.

Ed

ps: How come the people who write the RFC's just step up and  
standardize this type of stuff?
From maclist at analogdigital.com.au  Tue Jan  1 19:35:03 2008
From: maclist at analogdigital.com.au (Christopher Collins)
Date: Tue Jan  1 19:35:09 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <E3EF7A38-0BB1-441A-8A78-1B0557FC507A@comcast.net>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
	<409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>
	<E3EF7A38-0BB1-441A-8A78-1B0557FC507A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5A69AF19-5472-4680-93BA-3CFEDCA583EA@analogdigital.com.au>


On 02/01/2008, at 2:24 PM, Ed Gould wrote:
>
> Ed
>
> ps: How come the people who write the RFC's just step up and  
> standardize this type of stuff?

Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it better  
and want to control things and so they add additional "features".

Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune

Need I say more?

cjc

From dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk  Wed Jan  2 01:44:33 2008
From: dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk (David Ledger)
Date: Wed Jan  2 01:44:44 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <20080102032649.8EDFA3F4D0B@listserver.themacintoshguy.com>
References: <20080102032649.8EDFA3F4D0B@listserver.themacintoshguy.com>
Message-ID: <a06240827c3a109a6cbca@[192.168.0.7]>

>From: Ed Gould <edgould1948@comcast.net>
>ps: How come the people who write the RFC's just step up and
>standardize this type of stuff?

An RFC is a "Request For Comments". Anyone can Comment. Once all 
matters arising from the Comments and ensuing discussions are 
answered, incorporated in a new version, or rejected, it is approved 
by consensus.

Maybe you should setup Postfix and use command line 'mailx' when 
emailing this group.

David


-- 
David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK.
HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk)
david.ledger@ivdcs.co.uk
www.ivdcs.co.uk
From douglist at macnauchtan.com  Wed Jan  2 05:49:28 2008
From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt)
Date: Wed Jan  2 05:49:40 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <a06240827c3a109a6cbca@[192.168.0.7]>
References: <20080102032649.8EDFA3F4D0B@listserver.themacintoshguy.com>
	<a06240827c3a109a6cbca@[192.168.0.7]>
Message-ID: <p05100301c3a144da5bf9@[192.168.1.14]>

At 09:44 +0000 1/2/08, David Ledger wrote:
>Maybe you should setup Postfix and use command line 'mailx' when emailing this group.

It's also perfectly possible to use telnet or ssh depending on your server. Connect to port 25 and execute SMTP protocol commands (they're just text commands) yourself.

Perl, python and others have modules that will do that for you. I can probably find a sample in perl if you ask. I once wrote one for a fellow in the local Mac user group who had problems with broken links in his list-like messages to members but he never used it. The links now arrive as tinyurl items and I dislike it.

-- 

Applescript syntax is like English spelling:
Roughly, though not thoroughly, thought through.
From wendy_austin at mac.com  Wed Jan  2 20:36:50 2008
From: wendy_austin at mac.com (Wendy S. Austin)
Date: Wed Jan  2 20:37:01 2008
Subject: [X4U] Cell phone/ICAL question
In-Reply-To: <F55AC4C9-A5F7-439A-89C8-7591371B2D6C@comcast.net>
References: <F55AC4C9-A5F7-439A-89C8-7591371B2D6C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>

Hi Ed

I use the Motorola Razr which syncs well with iCal.

Wendy


On 01 Jan 2008, at 09:14, Ed Gould wrote:

I live by ICAL. That is to say I keep all my appointments in ICAL.  
These appointments are doctor type appointments. My memory is bad due  
to a stroke.

I would like to get a cell phone in the next few months that has a  
calendar that can sync up with ICAL.


Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin
Pomponette via Surinam
Mauritius Island
Mob: +2302560182



From edgould1948 at comcast.net  Wed Jan  2 22:00:43 2008
From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould)
Date: Wed Jan  2 22:02:56 2008
Subject: [X4U] Cell phone/ICAL question
In-Reply-To: <F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>
References: <F55AC4C9-A5F7-439A-89C8-7591371B2D6C@comcast.net>
	<F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0BCD7454-0C5D-4D2D-95B8-6B80DECE6C12@comcast.net>


On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Wendy S. Austin wrote:

> Hi Ed
>
> I use the Motorola Razr which syncs well with iCal.
>
> Wendy
>
>

----------SNIP-----------

Thanks. Will look into that. Do you need to buy any software add-ons  
or anything else?

Ed

From wendy_austin at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 03:46:28 2008
From: wendy_austin at mac.com (Wendy S. Austin)
Date: Thu Jan  3 03:46:37 2008
Subject: [X4U] Cell phone/ICAL question
In-Reply-To: <0BCD7454-0C5D-4D2D-95B8-6B80DECE6C12@comcast.net>
References: <F55AC4C9-A5F7-439A-89C8-7591371B2D6C@comcast.net>
	<F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>
	<0BCD7454-0C5D-4D2D-95B8-6B80DECE6C12@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C7A82217-C7CC-4AB5-9375-F33B152A8D28@mac.com>

Ed,  from memory, the Motorola Razr came with some software CD but I  
did not use it.   The phone can connect via Bluetooth but I usually  
just use the cable and it syncs with my address book and iCal.   I  
have been very happy with this phone, it has been dropped quite a few  
times but keeps on working.

Wendy


On 03 Jan 2008, at 10:00, Ed Gould wrote:

Thanks. Will look into that. Do you need to buy any software add-ons  
or anything else?

Ed

Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin
Pomponette via Surinam
Mauritius Island
Mob: +2302560182



From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Thu Jan  3 04:26:49 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Thu Jan  3 04:28:59 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <5A69AF19-5472-4680-93BA-3CFEDCA583EA@analogdigital.com.au>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
	<409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>
	<E3EF7A38-0BB1-441A-8A78-1B0557FC507A@comcast.net>
	<5A69AF19-5472-4680-93BA-3CFEDCA583EA@analogdigital.com.au>
Message-ID: <428D78F3-DAE7-4401-B022-EB5F8BC9B7A4@myrealbox.com>


On 2 Jan 2008, at 03:35, Christopher Collins wrote:
> On 02/01/2008, at 2:24 PM, Ed Gould wrote:
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> ps: How come the people who write the RFC's just step up and  
>> standardize this type of stuff?
>
> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
> "features".
>
> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune
>
> Need I say more?

If you're going to have a go at Microsoft, you need to observe that  
this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program produces some  
horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting.

Stroller.

From maclist at analogdigital.com.au  Thu Jan  3 05:10:02 2008
From: maclist at analogdigital.com.au (Christopher Collins)
Date: Thu Jan  3 05:10:12 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <428D78F3-DAE7-4401-B022-EB5F8BC9B7A4@myrealbox.com>
References: <FA5AFC1A-0D6B-47CE-BA59-AC2ABBDB07F8@comcast.net>
	<p06240803c39ff05be370@[10.0.1.15]>
	<5E144E49-0174-49CE-8578-15E6BDBC398F@comcast.net>
	<409574B0-981C-4DDB-8C67-EACB8782EC2D@macattorney.com>
	<E3EF7A38-0BB1-441A-8A78-1B0557FC507A@comcast.net>
	<5A69AF19-5472-4680-93BA-3CFEDCA583EA@analogdigital.com.au>
	<428D78F3-DAE7-4401-B022-EB5F8BC9B7A4@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <471EAD0B-9F53-424C-AE06-D7C479461431@analogdigital.com.au>

Did you read this bit clearly??

"Microsoft and others"

The big difference here are the words "AND OTHERS". It was not aimed  
specifically at Microsoft but at Microsoft "AND OTHERS"  who believe  
they can take well known standards and "add their extra features" and  
then wonder why they don't work the way they should.

Those "OTHERS" can include Apple, Adobe, Commodore, Atari and any  
others you may wish to insert.

And to be fair. I've never had any problem with Mail and message  
formatting.

cjc


On 03/01/2008, at 11:26 PM, Stroller wrote:

>
> On 2 Jan 2008, at 03:35, Christopher Collins wrote:
>> On 02/01/2008, at 2:24 PM, Ed Gould wrote:
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ps: How come the people who write the RFC's just step up and  
>>> standardize this type of stuff?
>>
>> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
>> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
>> "features".
>>
>> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune
>>
>> Need I say more?
>
> If you're going to have a go at Microsoft, you need to observe that  
> this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program produces some  
> horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting.
>
> Stroller.

From jrj1120 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 07:38:23 2008
From: jrj1120 at gmail.com (Jeff Johnson)
Date: Thu Jan  3 07:38:29 2008
Subject: [X4U] Cell phone/ICAL question
In-Reply-To: <F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>
References: <F55AC4C9-A5F7-439A-89C8-7591371B2D6C@comcast.net>
	<F5B8B320-1B11-46F8-8282-0F3BC32AC8DF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <15770d710801030738s5d6a1004x229995e76cf9b7a8@mail.gmail.com>

A list of devices that sync with iCal and Address Book is here
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/

More relevant iSync/iCal info:
http://www.apple.com/support/isync/
http://www.macworld.com/article/131318/2007/12/nova.html
http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_symbian.php

Jeff

On Jan 2, 2008 10:36 PM, Wendy S. Austin <wendy_austin@mac.com> wrote:

> Hi Ed
>
> I use the Motorola Razr which syncs well with iCal.
>
> Wendy
>
>
> On 01 Jan 2008, at 09:14, Ed Gould wrote:
>
> I live by ICAL. That is to say I keep all my appointments in ICAL.
> These appointments are doctor type appointments. My memory is bad due
> to a stroke.
>
> I would like to get a cell phone in the next few months that has a
> calendar that can sync up with ICAL.
>
>
> Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin
> Pomponette via Surinam
> Mauritius Island
> Mob: +2302560182
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080103/37664362/attachment.html
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 09:14:40 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Thu Jan  3 09:14:50 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <428D78F3-DAE7-4401-B022-EB5F8BC9B7A4@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <C3A27420.129860%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/3/08 6:26 AM, Stroller wrote:

> If you're going to have a go at Microsoft, you need to observe that
> this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program produces some
> horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting.

Not actually true. Read back in the thread; Apple is the one that's actually
following protocol, and it's the other apps that haven't been recoded in the
past few years who "break" it or don't understand it.

~Linda


From lists at marksmandesign.ca  Thu Jan  3 10:41:24 2008
From: lists at marksmandesign.ca (Mark Des Cotes)
Date: Thu Jan  3 10:45:36 2008
Subject: [X4U] Guitar learning apps?
Message-ID: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>

Hi all,

My 11 year old son received a box guitar from his grandfather for  
Christmas. It was unexpected as my son has never shown any interest  
in playing. Now that he has it though he's been fiddling around and  
trying to learn the few cords his grandfather showed him. Right now I  
believe it's more of a curiosity for him than an interest. But if he  
keeps at it, and if he's interested, I will offer to enrol him in  
private lessons. In the meantime, I was wondering if any of you could  
recommend any Mac "tutorial" software that would help him learn to  
play? I'm looking for something that isn't too complicated or too  
expensive.

Thanks

Mark Des Cotes


From andy.themac at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 11:05:00 2008
From: andy.themac at gmail.com (Andy)
Date: Thu Jan  3 11:05:16 2008
Subject: [X4U] Guitar learning apps?
In-Reply-To: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
Message-ID: <C3A2E25C.2624B%Andy.TheMac@gmail.com>

> Hi all,

> 

> My 11 year old son received a box guitar from his grandfather for

> Christmas. It was unexpected as my son has never shown any interest

> in playing. Now that he has it though he's been fiddling around and

> trying to learn the few cords his grandfather showed him. Right now I

> believe it's more of a curiosity for him than an interest. But if he

> keeps at it, and if he's interested, I will offer to enrol him in

> private lessons. In the meantime, I was wondering if any of you could

> recommend any Mac "tutorial" software that would help him learn to

> play? I'm looking for something that isn't too complicated or too

> expensive.

> 

> Thanks

> 

> Mark Des Cotes

> 

> 

>This seems quite good <http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/0437456/details.html>
Andy
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080103/6dc9783e/attachment.html
From mattgregory33 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 11:18:43 2008
From: mattgregory33 at gmail.com (Matt Gregory)
Date: Thu Jan  3 11:18:55 2008
Subject: [X4U] Guitar learning apps?
In-Reply-To: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
References: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
Message-ID: <49a664460801031118n11e83106saaae9024518008fa@mail.gmail.com>

You might try searching iTunes (or other sources) for podcasts if you
haven't already.  There may be some video podcasts available for free.  I'd
be interested to hear if you find anything.
matt.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080103/ce20f895/attachment.html
From cybarb at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 12:45:54 2008
From: cybarb at mac.com (Cy)
Date: Thu Jan  3 12:42:25 2008
Subject: [X4U] update firmware?
Message-ID: <86BF7115-F554-41C4-AA1D-56C7353EA1A5@mac.com>

Hello X'ers;
Is it recommended to update EFI firmware before upgrading from Tiger  
to Leopard?

Thank you,


Cy
cybarb@mac.com




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080103/847d9712/attachment.html
From ftf at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 16:36:14 2008
From: ftf at mac.com (Fabian Fang)
Date: Thu Jan  3 16:36:21 2008
Subject: [X4U] ICAL Question/Problem
In-Reply-To: <98AEA299-748C-4E3B-83A8-BB14FF6C4CC2@comcast.net>
References: <98AEA299-748C-4E3B-83A8-BB14FF6C4CC2@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DD2E975A-9734-4EE0-AD5E-386B05F16820@mac.com>

Back on Dec 18, 2007, at 9:39 PM, wrote:

> I have health issues (memory is among them) and I have been  
> accidentally doing things in ICAL and its screwed up my life.
>
> I use ICAL quite a bit to remind me of doctors appointments and I  
> have quite a few Dr's appointments.


Because of your recent posts about iCal and related syncing issues,  
you may be interested in reading about Anxiety, the latest Mac Gem  
recommended by Macworld.com:
<http://www.macworld.com/article/131369/2008/01/anxiety.html? 
lsrc=mwgems>

Fabian
From tlmiller at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 20:11:46 2008
From: tlmiller at mac.com (T.L. Miller)
Date: Thu Jan  3 20:11:55 2008
Subject: [X4U] Program to capture streaming video
Message-ID: <20080104041146.959751764@smtp.mac.com>


Error, error, sent this on Tuesday: "Is iShowU something you can use?"

Meant to say "Videobox."

 
Tom Miller
..................................................
"The only time we see the middle of the road is as  
we run from side to side." R.O.Clark 
...................................................





From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Fri Jan  4 04:51:34 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Fri Jan  4 04:51:44 2008
Subject: [X4U] Guitar learning apps?
In-Reply-To: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
References: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
Message-ID: <2561A87E-3CB4-44AB-91AB-5F2B02D6537E@myrealbox.com>


On 3 Jan 2008, at 18:41, Mark Des Cotes wrote:
> ...
> My 11 year old son received a box guitar from his grandfather for  
> Christmas ... I was wondering if any of you could recommend any Mac  
> "tutorial" software that would help him learn to play? I'm looking  
> for something that isn't too complicated or too expensive.

I'm not sure what a "box guitar" is, as opposed to an acoustic or  
electric six-string, but assuming it has a regular tuning then IMO a  
computer program is overkill.

The "how to play guitar" market-place is not exactly un-exploited,  
and there are zillions of books out there that you'll be able to pick  
up on Amazon, Freecycle, at your local library, yard sales and in  
second-hand stores.

The chances are that half the music your son listens to on the radio  
can be played with 3 chords. A bit of Googling <http://www.google.com/ 
search?q=guitar+tab> will surely find the chords used by bands he  
listens to, and then all he needs to do is lock himself in his  
bedroom and practice, practice, practice.

Here are some 3-chord songs that Dad'll recognise:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SlfhP4Uo2jg

Stroller.

From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Fri Jan  4 04:52:05 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Fri Jan  4 04:52:15 2008
Subject: [X4U] Guitar learning apps?
In-Reply-To: <49a664460801031118n11e83106saaae9024518008fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B942981B-3394-487B-AB1A-ECAE220F8698@marksmandesign.ca>
	<49a664460801031118n11e83106saaae9024518008fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16F33F47-EB3C-4127-9E62-90563358CCA8@myrealbox.com>


On 3 Jan 2008, at 19:18, Matt Gregory wrote:

> You might try searching iTunes (or other sources) for podcasts if  
> you haven't already.  There may be some video podcasts available  
> for free.  I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

 From a news article I read a couple of months ago, I think there are  
a lot of guitar tutorials on YouTube.

Stroller.

From simon-lists at ldml.com  Fri Jan  4 07:02:33 2008
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Fri Jan  4 07:02:40 2008
Subject: [X4U] iCal in Leopard question
Message-ID: <1C9B83A2-811D-47EC-930E-F2933C29371E@ldml.com>

Hi Folks

I wonder if someone can throw any light on a question for me? Leopard:  
iCal: One of my calendars. It displays a number 1 in a grey oval  
beside the calendar name in the left hand column. Similarly, iCal's  
dock icon has a 1 in a red star. This is analogous to the numbers  
which appear in Mail when one has unread mail waiting. However, I  
don't understand what the number in iCal refers to. Obviously it's  
blindingly obvious - except it isn't to me.

Any ideas why this is present and how I can nuke it?

TIA

Simon Forster
__________________________________________________
  LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK
  Tel: +44 20 7993 8813   Fax: +44 70 9230 5247
__________________________________________________


From nacohen at mac.com  Fri Jan  4 08:11:15 2008
From: nacohen at mac.com (Norman Cohen)
Date: Fri Jan  4 08:11:45 2008
Subject: [X4U] iCal in Leopard question
In-Reply-To: <1C9B83A2-811D-47EC-930E-F2933C29371E@ldml.com>
References: <1C9B83A2-811D-47EC-930E-F2933C29371E@ldml.com>
Message-ID: <DC634A47-A726-45AE-8ECF-6995D6894309@mac.com>

You have a notification waiting about an invitation to an event. On  
the bottom left of the ical window, you will see an icon that looks  
like an envelope. Click that icon and a little pane will open right  
above called "notifications." You will then see the invitation. Click  
on the invitation for details and accept or decline.

Norm
---
Norman A. Cohen
nacohen@mac.com

"The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man...only five hundred."
Meredith Willson

On Jan 4, 2008, at 07:02 AM, Simon Forster wrote:

> Hi Folks
>
> I wonder if someone can throw any light on a question for me?  
> Leopard: iCal: One of my calendars. It displays a number 1 in a grey  
> oval beside the calendar name in the left hand column. Similarly,  
> iCal's dock icon has a 1 in a red star. This is analogous to the  
> numbers which appear in Mail when one has unread mail waiting.  
> However, I don't understand what the number in iCal refers to.  
> Obviously it's blindingly obvious - except it isn't to me.
>
> Any ideas why this is present and how I can nuke it?
>
> TIA
>
> Simon Forster
> __________________________________________________
From simon-lists at ldml.com  Fri Jan  4 08:26:30 2008
From: simon-lists at ldml.com (Simon Forster)
Date: Fri Jan  4 08:26:43 2008
Subject: [X4U] iCal in Leopard question
In-Reply-To: <DC634A47-A726-45AE-8ECF-6995D6894309@mac.com>
References: <1C9B83A2-811D-47EC-930E-F2933C29371E@ldml.com>
	<DC634A47-A726-45AE-8ECF-6995D6894309@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A70E5595-1BBA-4123-9D16-D5F78A1FA696@ldml.com>

Yay. Thank you.

Actually, it was someone accepting an invitation to a meeting - but  
same difference.

Anyway, thanks. It was beginning to bug me.

ATB

Simon

On 4 Jan 2008, at 16:11, Norman Cohen wrote:

> You have a notification waiting about an invitation to an event. On  
> the bottom left of the ical window, you will see an icon that looks  
> like an envelope. Click that icon and a little pane will open right  
> above called "notifications." You will then see the invitation.  
> Click on the invitation for details and accept or decline.
>
> Norm
> ---
> Norman A. Cohen
> nacohen@mac.com
>
> "The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man...only five  
> hundred."
> Meredith Willson
>
> On Jan 4, 2008, at 07:02 AM, Simon Forster wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>> I wonder if someone can throw any light on a question for me?  
>> Leopard: iCal: One of my calendars. It displays a number 1 in a  
>> grey oval beside the calendar name in the left hand column.  
>> Similarly, iCal's dock icon has a 1 in a red star. This is  
>> analogous to the numbers which appear in Mail when one has unread  
>> mail waiting. However, I don't understand what the number in iCal  
>> refers to. Obviously it's blindingly obvious - except it isn't to me.
>>
>> Any ideas why this is present and how I can nuke it?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Simon Forster
>> __________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
>

From dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk  Fri Jan  4 12:17:16 2008
From: dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk (David Ledger)
Date: Sat Jan  5 00:23:22 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <20080103171458.39A7743E74D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com>
References: <20080103171458.39A7743E74D@listserver.themacintoshguy.com>
Message-ID: <a0624082bc3a444588d4e@[192.168.0.7]>

>From: Doug McNutt <douglist@macnauchtan.com>
>At 09:44 +0000 1/2/08, David Ledger wrote:
>>Maybe you should setup Postfix and use command line 'mailx' when 
>>emailing this group.

>It's also perfectly possible to use telnet or ssh depending on your 
>server. Connect to port 25 and execute SMTP protocol commands 
>(they're just text commands) yourself.
>Perl, python and others have modules that will do that for you. I 
>can probably find a sample in perl if you ask. I once wrote one for 
>a fellow in the local Mac user group who had problems with broken 
>links in his list-like messages to members but he never used it. The 
>links now arrive as tinyurl items and I dislike it.

Of course, but why bother if you don't need to do more than mailx can do?

David


-- 
David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK.
HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk)
david.ledger@ivdcs.co.uk
www.ivdcs.co.uk
From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sat Jan  5 02:21:00 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sat Jan  5 02:21:10 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
Message-ID: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>

With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger) to  
an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
from Tiger.  How can I now login?
I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
everything.  This is Vista progress.

Paul Moortgat
From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sat Jan  5 02:22:49 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sat Jan  5 02:22:57 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password PS
Message-ID: <2A63A065-8E6D-4DB6-B1F4-1812CA35E15B@pandora.be>

I also tried to change the login and password with the startup DVD.   
Didn't work.


With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger) to  
an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
from Tiger.  How can I now login?
I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
everything.  This is Vista progress.

Paul Moortgat
From gene at macnightowl.com  Sat Jan  5 02:38:50 2008
From: gene at macnightowl.com (Gene Steinberg)
Date: Sat Jan  5 02:39:10 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <ABCB5E09-261C-434F-AD7F-18C84F13A9AC@macnightowl.com>

Alas, SuperDuper! Is not yet fully compatible with Leopard.  That is  
something that should be remedied soon.

I understand the issue is bootability.

Peace,
Gene Steinberg

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Paul Moortgat <paul.moortgat@pandora.be>  
wrote:

> With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger) to  
> an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
> There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
> upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
> After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
> window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
> Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
> from Tiger.  How can I now login?
> I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
> everything.  This is Vista progress.
>
> Paul Moortgat
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sat Jan  5 03:40:01 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sat Jan  5 03:40:13 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <ABCB5E09-261C-434F-AD7F-18C84F13A9AC@macnightowl.com>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
	<ABCB5E09-261C-434F-AD7F-18C84F13A9AC@macnightowl.com>
Message-ID: <C2D1DA89-5B75-468B-A9C1-0826CBCBEBBB@pandora.be>

I used SuperDuper with Tiger (for which it is compatible) and then  
made the upgrade.  I DID NOT copy Leopard.
Maybe I can use CCC to make a copy.

Paul Moortgat

On 05 Jan 2008, at 11:38, Gene Steinberg wrote:

> Alas, SuperDuper! Is not yet fully compatible with Leopard.  That  
> is something that should be remedied soon.
>
> I understand the issue is bootability.
>
> Peace,
> Gene Steinberg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 5, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Paul Moortgat  
> <paul.moortgat@pandora.be> wrote:
>
>> With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger)  
>> to an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
>> There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
>> upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
>> After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
>> window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
>> Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
>> from Tiger.  How can I now login?
>> I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
>> everything.  This is Vista progress.
>>
>> Paul Moortgat
>> _______________________________________________
>> X4U mailing list
>> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
>> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>>
>> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp:// 
>> www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp:// 
> www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
>

From neil at laubenthal.net  Sat Jan  5 05:33:04 2008
From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal)
Date: Sat Jan  5 05:33:16 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <E1D008DC-D09C-4C50-93C8-64A787974CF1@laubenthal.net>


On Jan 5, 2008, at 05:21, Paul Moortgat wrote:

> With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger) to  
> an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
> There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
> upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
> After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
> window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
> Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
> from Tiger.  How can I now login?
> I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
> everything.  This is Vista progress.

You can boot from the Leopard DVD and reset the password from there.  
There may be an issue with your admin account being turned into a non  
admin account. I can't remember the exact details but I think it only  
happens on an upgrade install. Basically you need to temporarily root  
access, login as root, fix your admin account, and disable root again.  
You can google Leopard lost admin account . . . that should turn up  
the fix. There are fixes posted (I think) on both Apple's site and  
other places.

From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Sat Jan  5 05:33:36 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Sat Jan  5 05:37:47 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <C3A27420.129860%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A27420.129860%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A5A189FF-B60B-43C2-8260-57F36B602934@myrealbox.com>


On 3 Jan 2008, at 17:14, Linda wrote:
> On 1/3/08 6:26 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>> If you're going to have a go at Microsoft, you need to observe that
>> this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program produces some
>> horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting.
>
> Not actually true. Read back in the thread; Apple is the one that's  
> actually
> following protocol, and it's the other apps that haven't been  
> recoded in the
> past few years who "break" it or don't understand it.

It may the case that Apple's following protocol on this occasion - I  
don't know that that's proven, but let's not debate it - but  
notwithstanding Mail does still produce some horribly broken & fucked- 
up message formatting.

Try this:
- Find a message in your inbox or saved folders which is written in  
rich text.
- Click on "reply" and make some edits to it.
- Choose the Mail > Format > Make Plain Text menu item.
- Send the message.
- Using terminal find the sent message in the directory representing  
your sent items folder (I did this on my IMAP server, but it should  
be the same if your messages are stored on your Mac).
- View the message using `cat` or `less`
- Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format flowed"  
yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks like a  
complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no way on  
earth this is valid plain-text.

The instance which caused me to discover this was a medium-length  
message (on this list, ironically) which contained only text - no  
graphics, or anything like that - and yet was nevertheless written in  
"rich text" to no benefit. My short reply to it was bounced by the  
listserver due to its size, leading me to examine it more closely. I  
think I was writing "inline" replies - going through the quoted  
message, finding a sentence or question I wanted to reply to and  
clicking "enter" a couple of times, then putting my response in the  
whitespace and repeating this as several different sections until the  
end - or just snipping a lot of quoted text.

I note that when I clicked reply to your message the reply was  
already in plain text, but clicking on "save draft" and examining the  
result on my IMAP server it still contains crap like  
"class=3D"AppleOriginalContents"><br =" and "class=3D"webkit-block- 
placeholder"></div><div = ". Out of curiosity I'll check again from  
"sent items" when I've sent this message in case Mail is clever  
enough to strip all this in this instance - and I've cc;d this  
message both to you & myself - but you can easily check for yourself  
by following the steps above

Incidentally, the I made the comments you quote above in response to:
>>> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
>>> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
>>> "features".
>>>
>>> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune


Apple is good at following and developing open standards when it  
wants to, but it is no saint in this regard. Since we're talking of  
mail, witness the addition of the nauseating "stationery" in 10.5's  
Mail, something that I thought was cool in Windows 95, and quickly  
grew out of within a year or two. What a step backwards!

How do widgets or gadgets really improve upon Windows 98's Active  
Desktop? Oh, and look, 2 weeks after 10.4 (?) was released a security  
update was required because of it was realised that a zip file  
installing its contents automatically might have security  
implications. Did Apple learn nothing? It appears that really they  
just like to boast about how "secure" OS X is.

I like Macs very much, and I think Apple have done many things right,  
but I would ask the previous poster to refrain from Microsoft-basing  
- it is not helpful.

Stroller.

From rashton at telus.net  Sat Jan  5 06:47:29 2008
From: rashton at telus.net (Robert Ashton)
Date: Sat Jan  5 06:48:02 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <FE4A1184-931D-4D4A-812F-C7475509016B@telus.net>

I had a password problem with Leopard and this was posted I believe  
by Neil. It solved my problem. I rebooted and under other entered  
root and what ever password I had set up. Hope this helps. Bob

  There is an issue with Leopard where if you do an update install it  
causes admin accounts to be changed into non admin accounts.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306876 has a step by  
step solution . . .essentially you enable the root account  
temporarily, change your account back into an admin one then use  
Directory Utility to disable root again. Don't leave root permanently  
enabled.

Personally I recommend against using an admin account for day to day  
usage as it leaves you more vulnerable in the event a virus/trojan/ 
whatever for Leopard was actually written.

Create a second account and give it admin privs . . . then remove the  
admin rights from your normal, everyday account.

When you need to do something that requires admin rights . . . even  
though you're logged in with your normal account just use the admin  
name/password in the authentication dialog and things will work  
perfectly . . . no need to log out/in with the admin account.

This ensures that you will always get asked for things that require  
admin rights . . . and if the aforementioned trojan/virus/whatever  
appears and pops up the authentication dialog . . .and you know  
you're not doing anything you can intercept it.
On 5-Jan-08, at 2:21 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote:

> With SuperDuper I made a bootable copy of my internal HD (Tiger) to  
> an external HD. (and also a backup to a second HD)
> There I upgraded Leopard which all went very well.  I selected the  
> upgrade method to keep everything as it was.  I've always done this.
> After restart I'm asked to give my name and password in a small  
> window.  Whatever name/password combination I give, nothing works.
> Even Admin/admin will not work.  I assumed that all data was kept  
> from Tiger.  How can I now login?
> I know of a method:  start with a blank HD and re-install  
> everything.  This is Vista progress.
>
> Paul Moortgat
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp:// 
> www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal

From mcyoura at ix.netcom.com  Sat Jan  5 07:02:56 2008
From: mcyoura at ix.netcom.com (Mary C. Youra)
Date: Sat Jan  5 07:03:16 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <FE4A1184-931D-4D4A-812F-C7475509016B@telus.net>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
	<FE4A1184-931D-4D4A-812F-C7475509016B@telus.net>
Message-ID: <F1FB0F76-75C3-49A2-A54C-4883339C7046@ix.netcom.com>


On Jan 5, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Robert Ashton wrote:

> Personally I recommend against using an admin account for day to  
> day usage as it leaves you more vulnerable in the event a virus/ 
> trojan/whatever for Leopard was actually written.
>
> Create a second account and give it admin privs . . . then remove  
> the admin rights from your normal, everyday account.
>
> When you need to do something that requires admin rights . . . even  
> though you're logged in with your normal account just use the admin  
> name/password in the authentication dialog and things will work  
> perfectly . . . no need to log out/in with the admin account.


This seems like a very sensible approach. Does it work for Tiger (and  
other pre-Leopard OS X's), also?
Thank you.


From XPressoBean at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 07:45:00 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Sat Jan  5 07:45:29 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password PS
In-Reply-To: <2A63A065-8E6D-4DB6-B1F4-1812CA35E15B@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/5/08 4:22 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote:

>  How can I now login?

I found this on Penn State's site -- first hit when I used Google to search
for your problem (I used the words Leopard password problem Mac OS X).

Does it solve your issue?

> Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Password Problem
>  
> If your local password (not your Access Account password!) is greater than
> eight characters, and you've upgraded your Mac from OS X 10.2, and you haven't
> changed your password since OS X 10.2, then Leopard won't let you log in.
> 
> To prevent this from occurring, the Computer Store recommends backing up all
> documents and important information, formatting the hard disk and installing a
> clean copy of OS X 10.5.

If that part doesn't apply, they've also offered this:

> Apple has now provided *Login & Keychain Update 1.0 for Mac OS X  10.5
> Leopard*. This is said to address:
> Logging in with an account originally created in Mac OS X 10.1  or earlier
> that has a password of 8 or more characters.
> Connecting to some 802.11b/g wireless networks.
> Changing the password of a FileVault-protected account.
> 
> For more information please visit Apple's article:
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306840

I'm not affiliated with Penn State, this site just came up when I used
Google to search for an answer to your post.

Given that most people haven't had this issue, it's hardly "Vista progress".
:-(

~Linda
-- 
Just released: _This Water Goes North_ from M?nit?n?hk Books.
Hardcover, nonfiction. 240 pages + 16-page color photo insert.
Order at <http://www.thiswatergoesnorth.com>.
Thank you for supporting small/independent publishers!


From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sat Jan  5 11:53:24 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sat Jan  5 11:53:31 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password PS
In-Reply-To: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8BADA9E5-AEE1-4C54-A85F-FADD5853B8B3@pandora.be>

What wouls happen if I reset the "access control lists" at the bottom  
of the Reset Password window?

Paul Moortgat
From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 12:51:39 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sat Jan  5 12:51:50 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
Message-ID: <C4A06E50-20A9-4C9D-BB39-EEDC448F7FF7@mac.com>

I filed this one as a bug report.  Searched back through the  
archives...have we had our usual complaint-fest about this one?  I'm  
curious to hear the List's  input.

Summary:
Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder metadata.  
Unfortunately, the files are not sortable by Date Created or Date  
Modified.

Steps to Reproduce:
1.  Start a Spotlight search, and select "Show All", OR use the  
command-F command in Finder to start a search.
2.  Notice the resulting search results window results are sortable  
only by Name, Kind, and Last Opened.
3.  Unfortunately, the files are not sortable by Date Created or Date  
Modified, two of the most useful Finder attributes dating back to  
System 1.

Expected Results:
The returned results should be sortable by any of the file attributes  
that are sortable in a regular Finder window, such as by Date Created  
or Date Modified, or by Label or Version.

Actual Results:
The files are not sortable by Date Created or Date Modified, two of  
the most useful Finder attributes dating back to System 1. Unable to  
sort by Label or Version, either.

OK, can we agree that they just FORGOT to include this feature in  
Spotlight?  Surely the glaring admission of this counts as a bug.  I  
know that someone out there uses Sort by Last Opened...but not me.  Am  
I in the minority?

Discuss :-)

Michael
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 13:05:48 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Sat Jan  5 13:06:11 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual
	Finder metadata
In-Reply-To: <C4A06E50-20A9-4C9D-BB39-EEDC448F7FF7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C3A54D4C.12A063%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/5/08 2:51 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Discuss :-)

What version of the OS are you discussing?

peace,
Linda


From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sat Jan  5 14:05:36 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sat Jan  5 14:06:55 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password PS  (Fixed!!)
In-Reply-To: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D3E1E2CD-28B8-41DA-B218-8FBFC178A716@pandora.be>

I hooked the unwilling external HD to my 867 PB and just installed  
Leopard from there again without doing anything else than select  
INSTALL.
After installing Leopard, I got a restart and there it was.  No  
problem at all.
I hooked the external HD to my G5 and selected as the upstart disk  
and it worked.  No password needed.  The icons on the desktop where a  
few millimeter higher but all the icons got an image which showed  
more or less the content of the document.
I came back to Tiger to write this mail.  I'll see tomorrow how it  
turns out in Leopard.  One thing.  These people in Belgium have send  
me a French booklet while the invoice was in Dutch.
Probably just because the knew it was for a Flemish speaking person.   
They like to do that here to annoy us.  I could download the booklet  
text from the Apple site, but this is not the case.
Anyway I've Leopard installed and in these 15 minutes I like it.

Paul Moortgat
From maclist at analogdigital.com.au  Sat Jan  5 14:29:03 2008
From: maclist at analogdigital.com.au (Christopher Collins)
Date: Sat Jan  5 14:29:14 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <A5A189FF-B60B-43C2-8260-57F36B602934@myrealbox.com>
References: <C3A27420.129860%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<A5A189FF-B60B-43C2-8260-57F36B602934@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <8A018C9B-EBA0-44CE-9851-5952905629A3@analogdigital.com.au>


On 06/01/2008, at 12:33 AM, Stroller wrote:

> <Lots of unsubstatiated drivel clipped.>
>
> I like Macs very much, and I think Apple have done many things  
> right, but I would ask the previous poster to refrain from Microsoft- 
> basing - it is not helpful.
>

Yet again Stroller, you seem to constantly miss the point.

I was not bashing Microsoft per se. I was bashing ANYONE who takes an  
open standard, modifies it with their own "features" and then wonders  
why it won't work properly with other software that follows the  
standard.

You really need to get off your "Microsoft on a pedestal" and  
understand what was said.

Microsoft was mentioned, so was Adobe, so was Apple and so were a few  
others.

All have been guilty of modifying "standards" with features and then  
complaining about interoperability issues.

Deal with it and move on. Microsoft is not perfect. And neither is  
Apple.

cjc

PS 	And just for the record, prove the following with something more  
than a throw away statement that is only your opinion.

- Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format flowed"  
yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks like a complete  
& utter mess, including html markup. There is no way on earth this is  
valid plain-text.
From neil at laubenthal.net  Sat Jan  5 15:32:27 2008
From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal)
Date: Sat Jan  5 15:32:42 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard Password
In-Reply-To: <F1FB0F76-75C3-49A2-A54C-4883339C7046@ix.netcom.com>
References: <70B5B3B8-7AA2-48CA-9ECE-632D28B82B74@pandora.be>
	<FE4A1184-931D-4D4A-812F-C7475509016B@telus.net>
	<F1FB0F76-75C3-49A2-A54C-4883339C7046@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <F5945F77-BF03-475A-9158-3997147754A3@laubenthal.net>

On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:02, Mary C. Youra wrote:


>>
> This seems like a very sensible approach. Does it work for Tiger  
> (and other pre-Leopard OS X's), also?
> Thank you.


Yup.


From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 16:45:54 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sat Jan  5 16:46:52 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual	Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <C3A54D4C.12A063%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A54D4C.12A063%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6601E36E-A778-410B-B5DA-B9E8735316AD@mac.com>

Touch?. 10.5 Leopard.

--------------------
If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone.

iPhone mail
www.apple.com/iPhone

On Jan 5, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Linda <xpressobean@mac.com> wrote:

> On 1/5/08 2:51 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:
>
>> Discuss :-)
>
> What version of the OS are you discussing?
>
> peace,
> Linda
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price
> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 16:59:51 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Sat Jan  5 17:00:05 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual
	Finder metadata
In-Reply-To: <6601E36E-A778-410B-B5DA-B9E8735316AD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/5/08 6:45 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Touch?. 10.5 Leopard.

Well, it works the way you suggest in OS X 10.4 also. I've always missed the
ability to sort by date, but assumed it wasn't there for a reason. Perhaps I
assume too much.


From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Sun Jan  6 07:11:55 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Sun Jan  6 07:12:08 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>


On 6 Jan 2008, at 00:59, Linda wrote:
>
>>>> Unfortunately, the files are not sortable by Date Created or  
>>>> Date Modified, two of the most useful Finder attributes ...
>
> Well, it works the way you suggest in OS X 10.4 also. I've always  
> missed the
> ability to sort by date, ...

Frikkin' annoying it is, too.

When you order my date under 10.4, it does so by date of _last  
access_. So when you click on an item to see if it's the right one it  
immediately goes to the head of the results. Are the 4th & 5th  
results the file you remember using yesterday, or are they files that  
you clicked on a couple of moments ago, in your search for that  
document? How stupid!

Stroller.
From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Sun Jan  6 07:37:16 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Sun Jan  6 07:37:34 2008
Subject: [X4U] APPLE's Mail Program
In-Reply-To: <8A018C9B-EBA0-44CE-9851-5952905629A3@analogdigital.com.au>
References: <C3A27420.129860%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<A5A189FF-B60B-43C2-8260-57F36B602934@myrealbox.com>
	<8A018C9B-EBA0-44CE-9851-5952905629A3@analogdigital.com.au>
Message-ID: <DD71149C-3766-4BDF-9EEE-5869BE378058@myrealbox.com>


On 5 Jan 2008, at 22:29, Christopher Collins wrote:
> On 06/01/2008, at 12:33 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>> <Lots of unsubstatiated drivel clipped.>
>>
>> I like Macs very much, and I think Apple have done many things  
>> right, but I would ask the previous poster to refrain from  
>> Microsoft-basing - it is not helpful.
>>
>
> Yet again Stroller, you seem to constantly miss the point.
>
> I was not bashing Microsoft per se. I was bashing ANYONE who takes  
> an open standard, modifies it with their own "features" and then  
> wonders why it won't work properly with other software that follows  
> the standard.
>
> You really need to get off your "Microsoft on a pedestal" and  
> understand what was said.

Stuff you, pal.

It was YOU who said:

>>>> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
>>>> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
>>>> "features".
>>>>
>>>> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune


You mention Microsoft by name, not Adobe or any other manufacturers.  
2 of those 3 products are Microsoft ones. Sun may rigidly control  
Java, but that is to prevent the modification you decry! In bringing  
Java to the table Sun may not have given the world a standard open to  
community alteration, but they were pretty honest about this and  
forced no-one to use it (nor took advantage of a monopoly position to  
foist it on people). Java succeeded because it's useful.

I am not "on a Microsoft pedestal" - I get hacked off by unreasoning  
idiots who put Apple on a pedestal. You mentioned Microsoft by name,  
I observed that "this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program  
produces some horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting."

> PS 	And just for the record, prove the following with something  
> more than a throw away statement that is only your opinion.
>
> - Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format flowed"  
> yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks like a  
> complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no way on  
> earth this is valid plain-text.

How can you say that is "only an opinion"??!?!? Have you even LOOKED  
at the email's raw source?

I gave you very clear instructions on how to do so:

>> - Find a message in your inbox or saved folders which is written  
>> in rich text.
>> - Click on "reply" and make some edits to it.
>> - Choose the Mail > Format > Make Plain Text menu item.
>> - Send the message.
>> - Using terminal find the sent message in the directory  
>> representing your sent items folder (I did this on my IMAP server,  
>> but it should be the same if your messages are stored on your Mac).
>> - View the message using `cat` or `less`
>> - Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format  
>> flowed" yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks  
>> like a complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no  
>> way on earth this is valid plain-text.

Did you bother to try this before posting? Apparently not, because I  
can _very_ easily reproduce it.

Now, what I'm seeing - looking at the emails of this thread that I've  
posted & cc'd to myself - is that Mail.app has clever enough to strip  
the crap when sending the message, and to strip it from the copy in  
sent items. But I have _definitely_ seen it sent into the wild  
unstripped, too.

Stroller.
From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sun Jan  6 08:55:16 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sun Jan  6 08:59:15 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard and Brother 1470N printer
In-Reply-To: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A5021C.129F2F%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1E4AE370-3E1A-4EC7-AC8C-DD1DFA100F7F@pandora.be>

How can I bring my Brother 1470N to work in Leopard?  No drivers  
found on the net.

Next problem will be a Canon i990 printer.  Brother is more important.

Paul Moortgat
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 09:09:21 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Sun Jan  6 09:09:43 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard and Brother 1470N printer
In-Reply-To: <1E4AE370-3E1A-4EC7-AC8C-DD1DFA100F7F@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <C3A66761.12A1F9%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/6/08 10:55 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote:

> How can I bring my Brother 1470N to work in Leopard?  No drivers
> found on the net.

I typed:

Brother 1470N Mac OS X 10.5

into Google, and was rewarded with the "How to Install" link for the 1470N,
using the driver bundled in Mac OS X 10.5. It's even got screenshots!

<http://www.brother.com/E-ftp/macosxstate.htm>

This site <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306684> also
indicates compatibility with a Brother driver.

peace,
Linda


From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 11:34:36 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun Jan  6 11:34:49 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>

Linda and Stoller,

How amazing I never even noticed this in 10.4.  Apple must have their  
heads up...well, you know.

I found a program called HoudaSpot that leverages the Spotlight engine  
in a better way. But the window it puts up at default is intimidating.

Michael


On Jan 6, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Stroller wrote:

>
> On 6 Jan 2008, at 00:59, Linda wrote:
>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, the files are not sortable by Date Created or  
>>>>> Date Modified, two of the most useful Finder attributes ...
>>
>> Well, it works the way you suggest in OS X 10.4 also. I've always  
>> missed the
>> ability to sort by date, ...
>
> Frikkin' annoying it is, too.
>
> When you order my date under 10.4, it does so by date of _last  
> access_. So when you click on an item to see if it's the right one  
> it immediately goes to the head of the results. Are the 4th & 5th  
> results the file you remember using yesterday, or are they files  
> that you clicked on a couple of moments ago, in your search for that  
> document? How stupid!
>
> Stroller.
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal

From paul.moortgat at pandora.be  Sun Jan  6 13:03:56 2008
From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat)
Date: Sun Jan  6 13:04:09 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard and Brother 1470N printer
In-Reply-To: <C3A66761.12A1F9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A66761.12A1F9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8D225213-373E-4A0F-AF30-0F3CA3E5907F@pandora.be>

Thanks Linda,

I was there on that site but because it had an "x" at it I assumed it  
wasn't for 10.5.1.
It worked as you wrote.  I also found a driver for my Canon i990.
What annoys me in Leopard is the fact that when I double click a  
folder to open it's hidden behind the one it's in.
The comm-f to find something as I did in Tiger isn't also my thing  
nor the fact that Leopard can't remember the size of an opened folder.
Each time I need to reopen that folder is always opened to the  
minimum, not to where I made it and then closed it.
One has to learn new tricks (as always)

Paul Moortgat


On 06 Jan 2008, at 18:09, Linda wrote:

> On 1/6/08 10:55 AM, Paul Moortgat wrote:
>
>> How can I bring my Brother 1470N to work in Leopard?  No drivers
>> found on the net.
>
> I typed:
>
> Brother 1470N Mac OS X 10.5
>
> into Google, and was rewarded with the "How to Install" link for  
> the 1470N,
> using the driver bundled in Mac OS X 10.5. It's even got screenshots!
>
> <http://www.brother.com/E-ftp/macosxstate.htm>
>
> This site <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306684> also
> indicates compatibility with a Brother driver.
>
> peace,
> Linda
>
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 13:09:22 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Sun Jan  6 13:09:34 2008
Subject: [X4U] Leopard and Brother 1470N printer
In-Reply-To: <8D225213-373E-4A0F-AF30-0F3CA3E5907F@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <C3A69FA2.12A2A3%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/6/08 3:03 PM, Paul Moortgat wrote:

> I was there on that site but because it had an "x" at it I assumed it
> wasn't for 10.5.1.

Ah. The column heading for that column says that it's the Scanner Driver, so
it stands to reason that there's an "x" in that column because the Brother
1470N does not offer scanning capabilities.

Glad you got it sorted.

~Linda 


From rfcee at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 17:34:55 2008
From: rfcee at earthlink.net (Ray Choiniere)
Date: Sun Jan  6 17:35:01 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
Message-ID: <42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>


On Jan 6, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Linda and Stoller,
>
> How amazing I never even noticed this in 10.4.  Apple must have  
> their heads up...well, you know.
>
> I found a program called HoudaSpot that leverages the Spotlight  
> engine in a better way. But the window it puts up at default is  
> intimidating.
>
> Michael

Hi All;

I suggest that you take a close look at EasyFind, a free utility from

http://www.devon-technologies.com/

I have found EasyFind quite useful. Once you've done a search on what  
you want, (the search being confined to the drive, or folders you  
specify) you can sort the search results by name, date modified or  
date created, size, kind, and where located.

I never use Spotlight any more. I've just put EasyFind in my Dock for  
convenience because it is much much better for me.

It's hard to believe DEVONtech is letting this thing loose as a freebie.

Hope this helps;

Ray





From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 17:45:02 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun Jan  6 17:45:11 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>

Hi Ray,

I've used EasyFind before, specifically because it will easily search  
for invisible files without a problem.

However, to compare it to Spotlight searches is pretty poor. I need  
searches that will search by content, not just filename.

Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my  
drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives, "elephant".   
I have answered a phone call, and literally walked downstairs to get a  
cup of tea, and then write this letter, and the search still isn't  
completed.

Ah well, we can't get everything we want!

Michael
From jessup at san.rr.com  Sun Jan  6 19:25:32 2008
From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup)
Date: Sun Jan  6 19:32:13 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not
	sortable by usual Finder 	metadata
In-Reply-To: <2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3a74b9a1534@[10.0.1.15]>

At 19 45  -0600 1/6/08, Michael Elliott wrote:
>Hi Ray,
>
>I've used EasyFind before, specifically because it will easily 
>search for invisible files without a problem.
>
>However, to compare it to Spotlight searches is pretty poor. I need 
>searches that will search by content, not just filename.
>
>Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my 
>drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives, "elephant".
>I have answered a phone call, and literally walked downstairs to get 
>a cup of tea, and then write this letter, and the search still isn't 
>completed.

I totally agree. On my system, EasyFind is so slow that I just don't 
ever both to even try it. BUT, I use NotLight, and it not only 
searches as I wish, but is almost as fast as Spotlight. It's 
available at VersionTracker, and it's free.

Oops, unfortunately, it doesn't say it is Leopard-compatible, and I 
think it isn't.

Daly


----------------------
_________________________________________________________
2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 3 GB RAM, 24" screen, OS X 10.4.11,
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT video, wired Apple mouse and keyboard.
From rfcee at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  6 19:48:32 2008
From: rfcee at earthlink.net (Ray Choiniere)
Date: Sun Jan  6 19:48:37 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
Message-ID: <EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>


On Jan 6, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> I've used EasyFind before, specifically because it will easily  
> search for invisible files without a problem.
>
> However, to compare it to Spotlight searches is pretty poor. I need  
> searches that will search by content, not just filename.

Hi Michael;

I'm using EasyFind 4.0.1, which I believe is a relatively recent  
version, and it does in fact search for file contents, not just file  
name. And it offers choices for All Words, Any Word, Phrase,  
Wildcards, and Boolean for your search entry. Maybe it would be worth  
looking at again in its current incarnation?

> Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my  
> drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives,  
> "elephant".  I have answered a phone call, and literally walked  
> downstairs to get a cup of tea, and then write this letter, and the  
> search still isn't completed.

I suppose you're right about that, but of course perception of speed  
depends on individual requirements and expectations. Probably my  
requirements and expectations are just not very high, so I was  
content -- not thrilled, I confess, but content -- with the search I  
just did. Just for the heck of it I searched in my entire Home folder  
for my last name as file contents. The folder is about 44 GB  
according to the Finder Info window and the search was completed in  
65 seconds. (45 occurrences of my name, "Choiniere," by the way.  
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!)

Then just for the heck of it I did the same search but on "All  
volumes." That took about 4 minutes, 45 seconds. Of course my HD is  
only carrying 96 GB of data, so it's hardly a huge body of data to  
search. Even so, I do try to constrain the search as much as I can

In any event, this is just a bit more data that you might consider,  
especially if you're not using the latest version.

> Ah well, we can't get everything we want!

A thousand comments come to my mind about that, but not one of them  
is as funny as I wish it were. So I think I'll just shut up and move  
on.  ;-)

Ray


From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 20:27:48 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun Jan  6 20:28:04 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not	sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3a74b9a1534@[10.0.1.15]>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<p06240803c3a74b9a1534@[10.0.1.15]>
Message-ID: <4B9203D3-41C8-4815-8200-DD903FFCD152@mac.com>

Been running Notlight. Seems to run fine under Leopard.

--------------------
If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone.

iPhone mail
www.apple.com/iPhone

On Jan 6, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Daly Jessup <jessup@san.rr.com> wrote:

> At 19 45  -0600 1/6/08, Michael Elliott wrote:
>> Hi Ray,
>>
>> I've used EasyFind before, specifically because it will easily  
>> search for invisible files without a problem.
>>
>> However, to compare it to Spotlight searches is pretty poor. I need  
>> searches that will search by content, not just filename.
>>
>> Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my  
>> drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives, "elephant".
>> I have answered a phone call, and literally walked downstairs to  
>> get a cup of tea, and then write this letter, and the search still  
>> isn't completed.
>
> I totally agree. On my system, EasyFind is so slow that I just don't  
> ever both to even try it. BUT, I use NotLight, and it not only  
> searches as I wish, but is almost as fast as Spotlight. It's  
> available at VersionTracker, and it's free.
>
> Oops, unfortunately, it doesn't say it is Leopard-compatible, and I  
> think it isn't.
>
> Daly
>
>
> ----------------------
> _________________________________________________________
> 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 3 GB RAM, 24" screen, OS X 10.4.11,
> NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT video, wired Apple mouse and keyboard.
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
From michaelelliott at mac.com  Sun Jan  6 20:44:06 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun Jan  6 20:44:28 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D1594EA9-403D-4784-BCF0-3F09CDAA0C92@mac.com>

I am also using 4.0.1. Very slow. But I can't believe I didn't see the  
File Contents button.  Thanks!

On Jan 6, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Ray Choiniere wrote:

> I'm using EasyFind 4.0.1, which I believe is a relatively recent  
> version, and it does in fact search for file contents, not just file  
> name.

From earle.jones at comcast.net  Sun Jan  6 20:55:47 2008
From: earle.jones at comcast.net (Earle Jones)
Date: Sun Jan  6 20:55:53 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not	sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <4B9203D3-41C8-4815-8200-DD903FFCD152@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<p06240803c3a74b9a1534@[10.0.1.15]>
	<4B9203D3-41C8-4815-8200-DD903FFCD152@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7DE877C9-45C0-48C0-B3D0-0C643FB8D714@comcast.net>


On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:27 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

> Been running Notlight. Seems to run fine under Leopard.
>
> --------------------

*
NotLight runs fine under Leopard.

It's still a much better front-end than SpotLight.

Get it at Version Tracker (Google there and search.)

earle
*

_______________________
Earle Jones ?
earle.jones@comcast.net
650-854-1489




From jessup at san.rr.com  Mon Jan  7 05:31:47 2008
From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup)
Date: Mon Jan  7 05:32:30 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not
	sortable by usual Finder 	metadata
In-Reply-To: <EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>

At 19 48  -0800 1/6/08, Ray Choiniere wrote:
>On Jan 6, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:

>I'm using EasyFind 4.0.1, which I believe is a relatively recent 
>version, and it does in fact search for file contents, not just file 
>name. And it offers choices for All Words, Any Word, Phrase, 
>Wildcards, and Boolean for your search entry. Maybe it would be 
>worth looking at again in its current incarnation?
>
>>Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my 
>>drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives, 
>>"elephant".  I have answered a phone call, and literally walked 
>>downstairs to get a cup of tea, and then write this letter, and the 
>>search still isn't completed.
>
>I suppose you're right about that, but of course perception of speed 
>depends on individual requirements and expectations. Probably my 
>requirements and expectations are just not very high, so I was 
>content -- not thrilled, I confess, but content -- with the search I 
>just did. Just for the heck of it I searched in my entire Home 
>folder for my last name as file contents. The folder is about 44 GB 
>according to the Finder Info window and the search was completed in 
>65 seconds. (45 occurrences of my name, "Choiniere," by the way. 
>Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!)

Okay, I don't want to beat a drum about this, but I just searched the 
contents all documents on my hard drive for documents containing my 
full name. I used NotLight. It took less than 1.5 seconds to find 486 
documents and list them with name, path, and date last modified. If 
someone is using Tiger, I can highly recommend NotLight. It also 
allows search by file name, and several other criteria, and wild card 
searches, and secondary searching within a set of found items.   AND 
it doesn't start searching until you have finished typing your search 
criteria. And it's free. And it lets you save searches.
<http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29015>

Daly
----------------------

From XPressoBean at mac.com  Mon Jan  7 06:03:02 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Mon Jan  7 06:04:23 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual
	Finder metadata
In-Reply-To: <42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C3A78D36.12A4B7%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/6/08 7:34 PM, Ray Choiniere wrote:

> I suggest that you take a close look at EasyFind,

The one I'd chosen previously was NotLight.

It's nice there are so many choices out there.

~Linda


From michaelelliott at mac.com  Mon Jan  7 10:53:25 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Mon Jan  7 10:57:52 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not	sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
	<p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
Message-ID: <39B228D5-6355-4242-8A9E-EFE1A1733C29@mac.com>

Yes, Notlight uses Spotlight's engine so its very fast. Just an ugly  
interface :-)  I got a message from Houdaspot's developer. He says  
he's adding the ability to search both name AND content with one  
search field. Of course, its not free though :-)

Michael

--------------------
If my email is short, it's because I'm emailing from my phone.

iPhone mail
www.apple.com/iPhone

On Jan 7, 2008, at 7:31 AM, Daly Jessup <jessup@san.rr.com> wrote:

> At 19 48  -0800 1/6/08, Ray Choiniere wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Michael Elliott wrote:
>
>> I'm using EasyFind 4.0.1, which I believe is a relatively recent  
>> version, and it does in fact search for file contents, not just  
>> file name. And it offers choices for All Words, Any Word, Phrase,  
>> Wildcards, and Boolean for your search entry. Maybe it would be  
>> worth looking at again in its current incarnation?
>>
>>> Also, the speed of Easyfind is abysmal.  I started a search of my  
>>> drives for one word that I know to be rare on my drives,  
>>> "elephant".  I have answered a phone call, and literally walked  
>>> downstairs to get a cup of tea, and then write this letter, and  
>>> the search still isn't completed.
>>
>> I suppose you're right about that, but of course perception of  
>> speed depends on individual requirements and expectations. Probably  
>> my requirements and expectations are just not very high, so I was  
>> content -- not thrilled, I confess, but content -- with the search  
>> I just did. Just for the heck of it I searched in my entire Home  
>> folder for my last name as file contents. The folder is about 44 GB  
>> according to the Finder Info window and the search was completed in  
>> 65 seconds. (45 occurrences of my name, "Choiniere," by the way.  
>> Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!)
>
> Okay, I don't want to beat a drum about this, but I just searched  
> the contents all documents on my hard drive for documents containing  
> my full name. I used NotLight. It took less than 1.5 seconds to find  
> 486 documents and list them with name, path, and date last modified.  
> If someone is using Tiger, I can highly recommend NotLight. It also  
> allows search by file name, and several other criteria, and wild  
> card searches, and secondary searching within a set of found  
> items.   AND it doesn't start searching until you have finished  
> typing your search criteria. And it's free. And it lets you save  
> searches.
> <http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29015>
>
> Daly
> ----------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> X4U mailing list
> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com
> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u
>
> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal
From rfcee at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 12:22:52 2008
From: rfcee at earthlink.net (Ray Choiniere)
Date: Mon Jan  7 12:22:59 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
	<p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
Message-ID: <7D8A3D04-06DA-4026-ACFA-02E382E0F337@earthlink.net>


On Jan 7, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Daly Jessup wrote:

> Okay, I don't want to beat a drum about this, but I just searched  
> the contents all documents on my hard drive for documents  
> containing my full name. I used NotLight. It took less than 1.5  
> seconds to find 486 documents and list them with name, path, and  
> date last modified. If someone is using Tiger, I can highly  
> recommend NotLight. It also allows search by file name, and several  
> other criteria, and wild card searches, and secondary searching  
> within a set of found items.   AND it doesn't start searching until  
> you have finished typing your search criteria. And it's free. And  
> it lets you save searches.

OK, just tried NotLight.
Dang, that thing is fast!

(Now I just need to learn to use its slightly arcane interface. Looks  
very good.)

Ray
From XPressoBean at mac.com  Mon Jan  7 12:47:31 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Mon Jan  7 12:47:51 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual
	Finder metadata
In-Reply-To: <7D8A3D04-06DA-4026-ACFA-02E382E0F337@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C3A7EC03.12A6A0%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/7/08 2:22 PM, Ray Choiniere wrote:

> 
> (Now I just need to learn to use its slightly arcane interface. Looks
> very good.)

This page should be called "The Missing NotLight Manual":
<http://www.macworld.com/article/51941/2006/07/notlight.html>

hope this helps!
Linda


From rashton at telus.net  Mon Jan  7 15:49:44 2008
From: rashton at telus.net (Robert)
Date: Mon Jan  7 15:49:55 2008
Subject: [X4U] Safari problem
Message-ID: <B28AEEEF-B734-4018-AF36-03704B684650@telus.net>

Got a friend thats running 10.4 and Safari 3.0.4. He has set his home  
page to Yahoo.com. After he types any thing into Yahoo search box he  
gets http://best-result.com. We went into prefs and resetup yahoo as  
his home page, We reset safari. We also cleared the cache. We also  
went into his home folder, library, and moved the safari folder out.  
Restarted Safari again. Typed into the yahoo search box http://best-result.com 
  shows up. Any idea where we can get this not to show up. Thanks in  
advance. Bob
From jessup at san.rr.com  Mon Jan  7 16:03:09 2008
From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup)
Date: Mon Jan  7 16:22:41 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not
	sortable by usual Finder 	metadata
In-Reply-To: <39B228D5-6355-4242-8A9E-EFE1A1733C29@mac.com>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
	<p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
	<39B228D5-6355-4242-8A9E-EFE1A1733C29@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c3a86dfa2375@[10.0.1.15]>

At 12 53  -0600 1/7/08, Michael Elliott wrote:
>Yes, Notlight uses Spotlight's engine so its very fast. Just an ugly 
>interface :-)  I got a message from Houdaspot's developer. He says 
>he's adding the ability to search both name AND content with one 
>search field. Of course, its not free though :-)

Hm, then if I were strapped for cash, I'd "invest" the five or ten 
minutes to figure out the NotLight interface and be happy. If I were 
not strapped and didn't like NotLight, then I hope Houdaspot will 
turn out to be a worthy replacement.

Daly
----------------------

From michaelelliott at mac.com  Mon Jan  7 17:30:22 2008
From: michaelelliott at mac.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Mon Jan  7 17:30:33 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not	sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c3a86dfa2375@[10.0.1.15]>
References: <C3A58427.12A0C9%XPressoBean@mac.com>
	<9FA61D51-90BE-4DA5-B42C-82769B3197EC@myrealbox.com>
	<1BCF00B4-CE3B-4FE0-BB8A-1BACEDC2D887@mac.com>
	<42431C1C-AC08-4027-BFB9-A1BDEBA91DB8@earthlink.net>
	<2F2AA1F8-CE3B-486C-906F-3D40CB0C7442@mac.com>
	<EC597C30-492D-4EA4-858D-49776F05C0A3@earthlink.net>
	<p06240800c3a7d87e1a70@[10.0.1.15]>
	<39B228D5-6355-4242-8A9E-EFE1A1733C29@mac.com>
	<p06240803c3a86dfa2375@[10.0.1.15]>
Message-ID: <4DDC5865-CF0A-43EA-BE41-848299A7AFC6@mac.com>

And FYI the Apple bug report system lists this as a "known issue."   
I'm still embarrassed that I hadn't notice that this was the same  
behavior in Tiger for the last 2 years!
>
From rfcee at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 18:48:03 2008
From: rfcee at earthlink.net (Ray Choiniere)
Date: Mon Jan  7 18:48:26 2008
Subject: [X4U] Spotlight search results are not sortable by usual Finder
	metadata
In-Reply-To: <C3A7EC03.12A6A0%XPressoBean@mac.com>
References: <C3A7EC03.12A6A0%XPressoBean@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D5D37588-F04A-4A00-AB2F-139D2ECF7947@earthlink.net>


On Jan 7, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Linda wrote:

> On 1/7/08 2:22 PM, Ray Choiniere wrote:
>
>> (Now I just need to learn to use its slightly arcane interface. Looks
>> very good.)
>
> This page should be called "The Missing NotLight Manual":
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/51941/2006/07/notlight.html>


Thank you for the reference, Linda!

Ray
From macmonster at myrealbox.com  Tue Jan  8 03:03:31 2008
From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller)
Date: Tue Jan  8 03:06:43 2008
Subject: [X4U] Safari problem
In-Reply-To: <B28AEEEF-B734-4018-AF36-03704B684650@telus.net>
References: <B28AEEEF-B734-4018-AF36-03704B684650@telus.net>
Message-ID: <E22FAE7E-632C-45D5-A215-61FFA1D8593E@myrealbox.com>


On 7 Jan 2008, at 23:49, Robert wrote:

> Got a friend thats running 10.4 and Safari 3.0.4. He has set his  
> home page to Yahoo.com. After he types any thing into Yahoo search  
> box he gets http://best-result.com. We went into prefs and resetup  
> yahoo as his home page, We reset safari. We also cleared the cache.  
> We also went into his home folder, library, and moved the safari  
> folder out. Restarted Safari again. Typed into the yahoo search box  
> http://best-result.com shows up. Any idea where we can get this not  
> to show up. Thanks in advance. Bob

Check DNS settings.

If they seem correct then please post the results of `nslookup  
search.yahoo.com` (run in terminal).

Please describe your friend's connection to the internet.
Is he using a router? What model?

He couldn't possibly be using a PC running Windows Internet  
Connection Sharing as an internet gateway?
This sort of behaviour is common on windows boxes which have been  
hijacked.

Does the friend ever use Google? One might expect similar behaviour  
with Google results, if he has been haX0red.
(Updated: search results for "best-result.com" indicate that the  
problem may be unique to Yahoo. All advice is "you seem to have a  
virus, run a scan on your PC", however).

I might add that there's a (slim?) possibility that the issue is with  
his ISP. When visiting my mother's, since perhaps November, I have to  
telnet into her router & change the DNS servers to those of OpenDNS,  
otherwise it returns bad results for emachine.stroller.uk.eu.org (but  
not, funnily enough compaq.emachine.stroller.uk.eu.org) and my  
browser ends up at a spammy website like the one your friend sees. I  
don't believe I've ever seen an ISP give incorrect DNS results  
before, visiting hundreds of customers in the last 3 years.

Stroller.
From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Jan  8 09:30:08 2008
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Tue Jan  8 09:30:19 2008
Subject: [X4U] .Mac Public Folder
Message-ID: <p0624080bc3a962e16ad0@[192.168.1.199]>

How do you tell people how to access your .Mac public folder?

Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |
From richards at spawar.navy.mil  Tue Jan  8 09:57:27 2008
From: richards at spawar.navy.mil (John F. Richardson)
Date: Tue Jan  8 09:57:08 2008
Subject: [X4U] Macworld 2008
In-Reply-To: <0886E8AD-F35B-47E5-A03F-41B15DC6A71C@mac.com>
References: <flolho+26jn@eGroups.com> <p06240808c3a58b7f2ac8@192.168.2.2>
	<D1C3FEC9-1F18-4163-8F8B-F9DF4DDCE43E@cox.net>
	<20080105152422.228983.d36d7186@hiwaay.net>
	<27A9AEA8-756B-4C2F-B3D7-9A27385D4A03@insightbb.com>
	<p06240802c3a5fa8f2c88@192.168.2.2>
	<89137e4e0801052017l1797169ao99f60b673f0d7143@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc476152acc.478104fd@umdnj.edu>
	<20080106172407.515217.74bcae6b@hiwaay.net>
	<0886E8AD-F35B-47E5-A03F-41B15DC6A71C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000201c8521f$eecee760$90903180@jpmis.mil>

Hello,

Perhaps we could all mass at the party for the people in the southeast
corner, or chant "X4U/macosx rules" at the Devo Concert.

Suggestions welcome.

John F. Richardson


From XPressoBean at mac.com  Tue Jan  8 11:41:13 2008
From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda)
Date: Tue Jan  8 11:41:38 2008
Subject: [X4U] .Mac Public Folder
In-Reply-To: <p0624080bc3a962e16ad0@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <C3A92DF9.12A9EB%XPressoBean@mac.com>

On 1/8/08 11:30 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> How do you tell people how to access your .Mac public folder?

Mac users: Go > iDisk > Other User's Public Folder

Windows users: I suggest this
<http://www.mac.com/1/idiskutility_download.html> or, if it's a need for
them to download rather than upload, I put the files on a File Sharing page
at .Mac and send the Windows user the URL to download from there.


From hdmorganjr at att.net  Tue Jan  8 14:59:13 2008
From: hdmorganjr at att.net (Howard Morgan)
Date: Tue Jan  8 14:59:34 2008
Subject: [X4U] Handbrake
Message-ID: <7C65DBE0-D99B-4EEA-864C-AB83C36139E8@att.net>

I have successfully converted some of my DVDs to iPod High-Res format,  
using Handbrake 0.9.1, and copied the file into iTunes v7, where I can  
play it whenever I want to. But it does not get synchronized with y  
iPod Classic (160GB).

How can I move the movie onto the iPod? Do I need to use MactheRipper  
first? How do I use the output of MacTheRipper with Handbrake?


Howard Morgan
hdmorganjr@att.net



From rgilmor