On May 30, 2008, at 10:28 AM, nk wrote: > > On May 30, 2008, at 7:48 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > >> but often the first sign that the battery is dead is that your Mac >> won't startup. > > > kind of a side note, but does this strike anybody else here as a > kind of dumb design? > having to re-set the date by hand bcs of a dead pram battery is one > thing, but having a whole computer rendered inoperable by something > so small...just seems stoopid to me. > > I had 1 pram battery go bad on me in my life...was the DP G4, but I > could still fire the thing up at least. > > sheesh! > > > n N: I guess I differ. It basically comes down to me if the clock doesn't work then the system shouldn't "work". I will agree that a message should be presented to the user saying the clock is "broken" and to have it serviced NOW. A dead $4 battery (or whatever the cost is) is chump change . I will say that Apple should supply a cdrom (or DVD) that can run diagnostics and tell you the (for instance) that the clock is broken. Diagnostics should be provided by Apple to do this and other tests. If for no other reason than taking a desk top computer to a service place is a little bit unrealistic in most cases unless there is something really major. A dead pram battery is not major in my opinion (since APPLE designed it as a user installable item). If we are talking mother board or something else is reasonably (IMO) not a item that can be undertaken by most users (some maybe). Not to stray to far off topic but 15 years ago I had an IBM pc and I was able to replace the power supply (and believe me I am clumsy) without blinking. I do not know if APPLE is the same or not (as far as power supplies) but it reasonably should be, after all if IBM can do it there is no reason that APPLE can't. Maybe a portable computer is a little different. Ed