From faramineux at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 05:49:53 2008 From: faramineux at comcast.net (faramineux) Date: Tue Apr 1 05:51:07 2008 Subject: [X4U] OT - Problem with my DVD player Message-ID: <44CA64DD-E3B5-4451-B890-D0707A648381@comcast.net> The DVD player I use with my TV is now playing the DVDs in B&W. I have tried 3 DVDs with the same results. Is it a sign of premature death? TIA From rashton at telus.net Tue Apr 1 06:24:42 2008 From: rashton at telus.net (Robert) Date: Tue Apr 1 06:26:50 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube Message-ID: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks Bob From lists at mac.com Tue Apr 1 06:49:26 2008 From: lists at mac.com (Neil) Date: Tue Apr 1 06:52:29 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Message-ID: Yes, just search Version Tracker for youtube. I've used TubeTV, PodTube, and I think, TubeSock, or something like that. On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Robert wrote: > Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? > Thanks Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080401/f62c0d09/attachment-0001.html From petez at mac.com Tue Apr 1 07:07:57 2008 From: petez at mac.com (Pete Zimowski) Date: Tue Apr 1 07:08:32 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Message-ID: <099DCDBA-AE9D-49F2-AC10-1B1A46690C7A@mac.com> >> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? >> Thanks Bob I've used TubeSock in the past, but was having trouble with recent Mac OS updates and TubeSock saving videos into iTunes. The videos couldn't be played outside of iTunes. So, I recently switched to Videobox, which I like a lot. http://www.tastyapps.com/ Well worth the $15, IMHO. Pete From tabdave at ca.rr.com Tue Apr 1 07:30:11 2008 From: tabdave at ca.rr.com (Crandon David) Date: Tue Apr 1 07:31:38 2008 Subject: [X4U] SUMMARY - converting dvd's In-Reply-To: <47F12679.303@oryx.cc> References: <47E7C3CA.8030603@oryx.cc> <47F12679.303@oryx.cc> Message-ID: <9CC541CD-EB75-4DFC-A755-407B535F34A9@ca.rr.com> Hi Jerry, Have you actually played the DVD's on a home player to see if the play all the way through with no problems? Thanks, David On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Jerry K wrote: > I wanted to thank everyone who replied. Sorry this took a while, > but I had a couple of difficulties along the way. Anyway, on to > the summary. > > > 1. I ripped the DVD with Mac the Ripper. This produced a directory > with (2) sub-directories, AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS. These directories > are playable with the Apple DVD player. > > 2. I converted these directories to a DVD image using a product > called DVD Imager. > > 3. once I had a DVD image, I needed to burn it. I wasn't paying > attention, but my DVD image was over 6 Gb. I had to go to the > store and purchase dual layer media that could hold all of the > data. Standard single layer DVD's only hold up to 4.7 Gb. > > 4. Finally, I used /Applications -> Utilities -> Disk Utility to > burn the image to my media. > > I know that many people suggested Toast. I have used it in the > past, and have an (old) legal license from the MacOS 8 & 9 days. > The amount of this type of activity I do is so limited that I > really couldn't justify an upgrade to the current version of Toast. > > I hope that this summary is able to assist someone else. Again, > thanks for all of the emails. > > Jerry K > > > Jerry K wrote: >> A friend just returned from Europe and gave me a couple of DVD's >> as a gift. I am in the US. >> I can play them fine on my PowerBook, but am not able to do so on >> my region 1 DVD player. >> On the label of the DVD's, they say that they are >> Pal 4:3 picture mode with >> region code: 2,3,4,5,6 and >> disc format - DVD-9 >> Is there any way I can rip and burn this DVD to region 1 so I can >> play it on the DVD player I have attached to my TV? >> Thanks for any pointers, >> Jerry K > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Tue Apr 1 07:43:05 2008 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Tue Apr 1 07:43:29 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Message-ID: <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. Paul Moortgat On 01 Apr 2008, at 15:24, Robert wrote: > Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks > Bob > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal > From jessup at san.rr.com Tue Apr 1 08:00:11 2008 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:01:10 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Message-ID: >Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks Bob Besides all the third-party utilities for downloading YouTube videos, there's also a method I learned just recently that doesn't depend on using another program. It's this: Start playing a YouTube video. It will still be downloading while the beginning of it is playing. While it is still downloading, go to Safari's Window menu and choose Activity (or shortcut, Command-Option-A). In the Activity window, look for the YouTube video you are downloading. Near the top of the list of downloaded links is one that usually starts with "http://" followed by an IP address like "74.125.12.95" followed often (usually?) by the words "get_video". Then the URL goes on much further. To the right of the whole URL you will see that that file size will be in megabytes rather than bytes and kilobytes as are the rest of the items in the Activity window. Anyway when you find that URL in the Activity window, double click it, and immediately, the YouTube video will begin downloading to your hard drive. Be sure not to disconnect until it is finished. You will end up with a file called "get_video". Change its name to something more descriptive, and be sure to add the suffix, ".flv" to the file name. At that point, anything that opens flash files will open it. In my case, double clicking such a file immediately opens it in MPEGStreamclip, from where I can export it in an amazing array of formats, including good old QuickTime. But you can also open it straight out in QuickTime Pro then save or export it as a movie from there. I learned this from someone else on a list and I like it best because it doesn't depend on someone else's keeping their shareware/freeware up to date. Daly ---------------------- From apple.mail.list at oryx.cc Tue Apr 1 08:07:44 2008 From: apple.mail.list at oryx.cc (Jerry K) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:09:27 2008 Subject: [X4U] SUMMARY - converting dvd's In-Reply-To: <9CC541CD-EB75-4DFC-A755-407B535F34A9@ca.rr.com> References: <47E7C3CA.8030603@oryx.cc> <47F12679.303@oryx.cc> <9CC541CD-EB75-4DFC-A755-407B535F34A9@ca.rr.com> Message-ID: <47F24FC0.3060905@oryx.cc> I have not played every minute of the DVD. I have gone through all of the "chapters" to make sure that they work. Do you foresee some problem for my DVD's? Jerry K Crandon David wrote: > Hi Jerry, > > Have you actually played the DVD's on a home player to see if the play > all the way through with no problems? > > Thanks, > > David > > > On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Jerry K wrote: > >> I wanted to thank everyone who replied. Sorry this took a while, but >> I had a couple of difficulties along the way. Anyway, on to the summary. >> >> >> 1. I ripped the DVD with Mac the Ripper. This produced a directory >> with (2) sub-directories, AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS. These directories are >> playable with the Apple DVD player. >> >> 2. I converted these directories to a DVD image using a product called >> DVD Imager. >> >> 3. once I had a DVD image, I needed to burn it. I wasn't paying >> attention, but my DVD image was over 6 Gb. I had to go to the store >> and purchase dual layer media that could hold all of the data. >> Standard single layer DVD's only hold up to 4.7 Gb. >> >> 4. Finally, I used /Applications -> Utilities -> Disk Utility to burn >> the image to my media. >> >> I know that many people suggested Toast. I have used it in the past, >> and have an (old) legal license from the MacOS 8 & 9 days. The amount >> of this type of activity I do is so limited that I really couldn't >> justify an upgrade to the current version of Toast. >> >> I hope that this summary is able to assist someone else. Again, >> thanks for all of the emails. >> >> Jerry K >> >> >> Jerry K wrote: >>> A friend just returned from Europe and gave me a couple of DVD's as a >>> gift. I am in the US. >>> I can play them fine on my PowerBook, but am not able to do so on my >>> region 1 DVD player. >>> On the label of the DVD's, they say that they are >>> Pal 4:3 picture mode with >>> region code: 2,3,4,5,6 and >>> disc format - DVD-9 >>> Is there any way I can rip and burn this DVD to region 1 so I can >>> play it on the DVD player I have attached to my TV? >>> Thanks for any pointers, >>> Jerry K >> _______________________________________________ >> X4U mailing list >> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u >> >> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price >> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From jessup at san.rr.com Tue Apr 1 08:09:52 2008 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:12:28 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> Message-ID: Bob asked: >>Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks Paul Moortgat answered: >Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. Could you clarify this, Paul? I have Perian installed and have had for a long time. YouTube movies show up and play just fine. But I find no "Watch" button in the Perian pref pane, and otherwise have no idea how to follow what you are suggesting as a way to save the video to the computer. Could you detail exactly what you do to use Perian to download a YouTube video? Sorry if I'm being dense. Daly ---------------------- From bob.virzi at verizon.com Tue Apr 1 08:33:22 2008 From: bob.virzi at verizon.com (Bob Virzi) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:34:30 2008 Subject: [X4U] New training dates Message-ID: Do you see any problems with these training dates? Apr 28-30, 4-12pm (right after your parents visit) Jul 21-26, 7-4 (includes one Saturday) ------------------------------------------- Bob Virzi Verizon Network and Technology ? Product & Services Realization bob.virzi@verizon.com 781.466.2881 From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Tue Apr 1 08:47:10 2008 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:49:09 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> Message-ID: Daly, The Watch button is on the Perian website. Maybe you didn't download it from somewhere else. Paul Moortgat On 01 Apr 2008, at 17:09, Daly Jessup wrote: > Bob asked: >>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks > > Paul Moortgat answered: > >> Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. > > Could you clarify this, Paul? I have Perian installed and have had > for a long time. YouTube movies show up and play just fine. But I > find no "Watch" button in the Perian pref pane, and otherwise have > no idea how to follow what you are suggesting as a way to save the > video to the computer. > > Could you detail exactly what you do to use Perian to download a > YouTube video? > > Sorry if I'm being dense. > > Daly > ---------------------- From tabdave at ca.rr.com Tue Apr 1 08:51:21 2008 From: tabdave at ca.rr.com (Crandon David) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:53:10 2008 Subject: [X4U] SUMMARY - converting dvd's In-Reply-To: <47F24FC0.3060905@oryx.cc> References: <47E7C3CA.8030603@oryx.cc> <47F12679.303@oryx.cc> <9CC541CD-EB75-4DFC-A755-407B535F34A9@ca.rr.com> <47F24FC0.3060905@oryx.cc> Message-ID: <09300B39-9529-4268-BB0D-AFD3AB7568BE@ca.rr.com> Yes, there may be problems. I've been trying to find a way to convert a copy a Led Zep video dual layer DVD for a while now. I've been able to strip the macrovision scrambling copy protection and the region codes using MactheRipper and all plays fine on my computer using the TS files. Burning it to a DVD has been problematic though. I've tried many different methods, although not yours yet, and all have produced DVD's that eventually will freeze or skip. I'm going to try your image burning method. Can you put your DVDs in you home player and just let them play? You don't have to watch them of course, lets just see if they don't freeze at all. Thanks, David On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:07 AM, Jerry K wrote: > I have not played every minute of the DVD. I have gone through all > of the "chapters" to make sure that they work. > > Do you foresee some problem for my DVD's? > > Jerry K > > > > Crandon David wrote: >> Hi Jerry, >> Have you actually played the DVD's on a home player to see if the >> play all the way through with no problems? >> Thanks, >> David >> On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Jerry K wrote: >>> I wanted to thank everyone who replied. Sorry this took a while, >>> but I had a couple of difficulties along the way. Anyway, on to >>> the summary. >>> >>> >>> 1. I ripped the DVD with Mac the Ripper. This produced a >>> directory with (2) sub-directories, AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS. These >>> directories are playable with the Apple DVD player. >>> >>> 2. I converted these directories to a DVD image using a product >>> called DVD Imager. >>> >>> 3. once I had a DVD image, I needed to burn it. I wasn't paying >>> attention, but my DVD image was over 6 Gb. I had to go to the >>> store and purchase dual layer media that could hold all of the >>> data. Standard single layer DVD's only hold up to 4.7 Gb. >>> >>> 4. Finally, I used /Applications -> Utilities -> Disk Utility to >>> burn the image to my media. >>> >>> I know that many people suggested Toast. I have used it in the >>> past, and have an (old) legal license from the MacOS 8 & 9 days. >>> The amount of this type of activity I do is so limited that I >>> really couldn't justify an upgrade to the current version of Toast. >>> >>> I hope that this summary is able to assist someone else. Again, >>> thanks for all of the emails. >>> >>> Jerry K >>> >>> >>> Jerry K wrote: >>>> A friend just returned from Europe and gave me a couple of DVD's >>>> as a gift. I am in the US. >>>> I can play them fine on my PowerBook, but am not able to do so >>>> on my region 1 DVD player. >>>> On the label of the DVD's, they say that they are >>>> Pal 4:3 picture mode with >>>> region code: 2,3,4,5,6 and >>>> disc format - DVD-9 >>>> Is there any way I can rip and burn this DVD to region 1 so I >>>> can play it on the DVD player I have attached to my TV? >>>> Thanks for any pointers, >>>> Jerry K >>> _______________________________________________ >>> X4U mailing list >>> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >>> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u >>> >>> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// >>> www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From tabdave at ca.rr.com Tue Apr 1 08:52:30 2008 From: tabdave at ca.rr.com (Crandon David) Date: Tue Apr 1 08:53:36 2008 Subject: [X4U] New training dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C99526F-7156-4CCE-A013-9F75A66FE94A@ca.rr.com> What do you want to train me on? And I saw my mom last week, so she's not coming out for a while. On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Bob Virzi wrote: > Do you see any problems with these training dates? > > Apr 28-30, 4-12pm (right after your parents visit) > > Jul 21-26, 7-4 (includes one Saturday) > > ------------------------------------------- > Bob Virzi > Verizon Network and Technology ? Product & Services Realization > bob.virzi@verizon.com > 781.466.2881 > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From abailey at semo.edu Tue Apr 1 09:00:27 2008 From: abailey at semo.edu (Anthony Bailey) Date: Tue Apr 1 09:01:07 2008 Subject: [X4U] New training dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nope, no problems at all, works for me - btw what are we training on? How did you know when my parents were coming in? ;-) On 4/1/08 10:33 AM, "Bob Virzi" wrote: > Do you see any problems with these training dates? > > Apr 28-30, 4-12pm (right after your parents visit) > > Jul 21-26, 7-4 (includes one Saturday) > > ------------------------------------------- > Bob Virzi > Verizon Network and Technology ? Product & Services Realization > bob.virzi@verizon.com > 781.466.2881 > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal ----------- this is coming to you from Anthony Bailey ?? Southeast Missouri State University, Cape Girardeau, Missouri??63701 From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 09:12:21 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 09:11:49 2008 Subject: [X4U] New training dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DAB6ADB-FD15-4A6B-9D5F-C520C7358FDA@iapc.net> Oh, wow.. my parents are coming to visit?? They both passed away years ago... This could be exciting & life-changing!! Wow.. On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Bob Virzi wrote: > Do you see any problems with these training dates? > > Apr 28-30, 4-12pm (right after your parents visit) > > Jul 21-26, 7-4 (includes one Saturday) > > ------------------------------------------- > Bob Virzi > Verizon Network and Technology ? Product & Services Realization > bob.virzi@verizon.com > 781.466.2881 > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 10:10:40 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Tue Apr 1 10:12:46 2008 Subject: [X4U] Another Apple Colors lawsuit Message-ID: not cool. VERY not cool, esp. for those of us who were this close to grabbing a new 20-inch iMac http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/31/ apple_hit_with_another_millions_of_colors_lawsuit.html From ses at bnl.gov Tue Apr 1 10:22:36 2008 From: ses at bnl.gov (stephen e. schwartz) Date: Tue Apr 1 10:23:41 2008 Subject: [X4U] Re: Spreadsheets that can split window > 1 time In-Reply-To: <20080401135642.3CB2D18C14E0@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: thanks, daly, but shucks; there goes one of my reasons to hail word 5.1a for the mac as the best word processor ever (but only one of many). does this work for excel? would solve the original problem. -steve --- >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:41:50 -0700 >From: Daly Jessup >Subject: [X4U] Re: Spreadsheets that can split window > 1 time > >>slightly OT, but Microsoft Word 5 (various versions) allows you to open >>multiple copies of the same document; they are all mirrored, so change >>something in one copy and it makes the change in all; real nice for looking >>at multiple places in the same document. or cut from one place in the >>document and paste into another without having to scroll around. close any >>duplicate copy and it doesnt prompt you to save; only when close the last >>remaining open window does it prompt you to save. nifty software design, >>sadly lost in later versions of that software. > >Really,isn't isn't lost. It's worked in every version of Word I know >of. I'm using Word 2004 right now, and haven't tested that in Office >2008, but it's simply: Windows menu/New Window - as many times as >you want additional windows of the same content. > >Daly From jessup at san.rr.com Tue Apr 1 11:22:41 2008 From: jessup at san.rr.com (Daly Jessup) Date: Tue Apr 1 11:25:45 2008 Subject: [X4U] Re: Spreadsheets that can split window > 1 time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >thanks, daly, but shucks; there goes one of my reasons to hail word 5.1a >for the mac as the best word processor ever (but only one of many). > >does this work for excel? would solve the original problem. Yep, works fine in Excel, and also in PowerPoint. (Word 5.1a still was a lot simpler to use than anything since, though. You don't need an excuse to hang on to it!) Daly ---------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 11:58:21 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:00:00 2008 Subject: [X4U] Another Apple Colors lawsuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> > not cool. VERY not cool, esp. for those of us who were this close to > grabbing a new 20-inch iMac > > http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/31/ > apple_hit_with_another_millions_of_colors_lawsuit.html Yet another reason to only purchase the Mac Mini, or Mac Pro if you want a desktop. I don't like desktops with built in monitors, and I think Apple's monitors are hopelessly overpriced. I actually looked into buying an Apple display for my G5 2x2 about a year after I purchased it. When the salesman at the Applestore told me I couldn't buy Applecare on the monitor unless I bought it with a machine I told him he'd just lost a sale. I'm very happy with the Samsung LCD I bought instead. Zane From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 12:20:55 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:20:01 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: I've been thinking about a Mac Mini, but see that the video RAM is 'shared' system RAM. (like many laptops) Anyone have any experience with a Mac MIni?? It'd be a home computer, but I do minor/intermediate desktop publishing work on the side, and a small non-profit website. (not heavy Photoshop, but some..) Cost is a major factor - I loove the MIni price point. (I have an LCD monitor, ext. FW DVD burner, & ext FW HDs) I don't -need- much, but I'd hate to be miserable if the video performance is truly awful!! (I'm on a G4-466 now, sooo... ) Thanks. Tim From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 12:30:31 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:32:06 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: References: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: *sigh* yeah, the mini does have a nicer price point than the iMac, but for not much more $, the iMac spanks it silly in terms of performance... until this monitor thing came up, I was pretty much sold on the iMac as THE unit for my budget, but if apple's going to horse around like this, I think Mini or Macbook might be my fall back plan. And I did read recently that a decent/significant upgrade is coming to the Mini... I can only hope Apple gets the message and knocks this stuff off. We already have 1 microsoft... n On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: > I've been thinking about a Mac Mini, but see that the video RAM is > 'shared' system RAM. (like many laptops) > > Anyone have any experience with a Mac MIni?? > > It'd be a home computer, but I do minor/intermediate desktop > publishing work on the side, and a small non-profit website. > > (not heavy Photoshop, but some..) > > Cost is a major factor - I loove the MIni price point. > > (I have an LCD monitor, ext. FW DVD burner, & ext FW HDs) > > I don't -need- much, but I'd hate to be miserable if the video > performance is truly awful!! > > (I'm on a G4-466 now, sooo... ) > > Thanks. > Tim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy > Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 12:41:16 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:42:02 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200804011941.m31JfHcV003439@onyx.spiritone.com> > I've been thinking about a Mac Mini, but see that the video RAM is > 'shared' system RAM. (like many laptops) > > Anyone have any experience with a Mac MIni?? > > It'd be a home computer, but I do minor/intermediate desktop > publishing work on the side, and a small non-profit website. > > (not heavy Photoshop, but some..) > > Cost is a major factor - I loove the MIni price point. > > (I have an LCD monitor, ext. FW DVD burner, & ext FW HDs) > > I don't -need- much, but I'd hate to be miserable if the video > performance is truly awful!! > > (I'm on a G4-466 now, sooo... ) I'm on a G5 2x2, and the main issue I have with the Mac Mini is the same thing I have with anything in Apple's current lineup with the exception of the Mac Pro, and that is the amount of RAM you can put in it. At 2GB I think the Mac Mini is the worst. If you're moving from a G4-466 I suspect you'll be blown away. I moved from a G4/450AGP to my G5 2x2 over four years ago, and I was blown away, and it still does everything I need. The Mac Mini should actually offer a simular performance boost for you. My wife has an older 2Ghz MacBook, I believe it has shared graphics memory and has no problem with video performance. I don't know when the Mac Mini will be revised next, but I can't help but wonder if I'll be interested in it at that point. Zane Zane From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 12:48:01 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:48:20 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <200804011941.m31JfHcV003439@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804011941.m31JfHcV003439@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:41 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > My wife has an older 2Ghz MacBook, I believe it > has shared graphics memory and has no problem with video performance. Zane; what kinds of things does she do on that MacBook? very demanding things like video, photoshop? 3D? or a mix of web, word processing and other things? thanks! n From joe at wacondatrader.com Tue Apr 1 12:51:33 2008 From: joe at wacondatrader.com (Joe Sporleder) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:52:25 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: References: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: I wish the Mac mini was closer in performance to the iMac. Give me the iMac horsepower in a size similar to the Mac mini (hey, they've got plenty of room to make it taller and still keep it small), and let me choose my own screen. I know, I know, Apple has a love affair with the all-in-one design. Joe On Apr 1, 2008, at 2:30 PM, n wrote: > *sigh* > > yeah, the mini does have a nicer price point than the iMac, but for > not much more $, the iMac spanks it silly in terms of performance... > > until this monitor thing came up, I was pretty much sold on the > iMac as THE unit for my budget, but if apple's going to horse > around like this, I think Mini or Macbook might be my fall back plan. > > And I did read recently that a decent/significant upgrade is coming > to the Mini... > > I can only hope Apple gets the message and knocks this stuff off. > We already have 1 microsoft... > > > n > > > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: > >> I've been thinking about a Mac Mini, but see that the video RAM is >> 'shared' system RAM. (like many laptops) >> >> Anyone have any experience with a Mac MIni?? >> >> It'd be a home computer, but I do minor/intermediate desktop >> publishing work on the side, and a small non-profit website. >> >> (not heavy Photoshop, but some..) >> >> Cost is a major factor - I loove the MIni price point. >> >> (I have an LCD monitor, ext. FW DVD burner, & ext FW HDs) >> >> I don't -need- much, but I'd hate to be miserable if the video >> performance is truly awful!! >> >> (I'm on a G4-466 now, sooo... ) >> >> Thanks. >> Tim From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 12:56:39 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 12:57:11 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200804011956.m31Judsa003681@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:41 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > My wife has an older 2Ghz MacBook, I believe it > > has shared graphics memory and has no problem with video performance. > > Zane; what kinds of things does she do on that MacBook? > > very demanding things like video, photoshop? 3D? > > or a mix of web, word processing and other things? The most demanding thing that she and our five year old do on it is hit various Youtube, or the various kids websites for video's. But then I took the OP's question on video to be that of playing video's. Her usage is basically limited to web, email, and iPhoto. I think the only software I've installed on it for her is Mac OS X 10.5.2, iLife '08, .Mac, and MS Office 2004. I'm considering purchasing the new Photoshop Elements and possibly Adobe Lightroom for her, as she would like to be able to do more than iPhoto offers without needing to use my system (I have Photoshop CS and Lightroom). Zane From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 13:02:16 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:00:43 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <200804011956.m31Judsa003681@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804011956.m31Judsa003681@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6CC72BE6-248C-4691-A85C-44715296F422@iapc.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > But then I took > the OP's question on video to be that of playing video's. Nah, I just meant the video/graphic performance in general... (as in my light/moderate Photoshop/Quark/Indesign/Illustrator useage) Tim > Her usage is > basically limited to web, email, and iPhoto. I think the only > software I've > installed on it for her is Mac OS X 10.5.2, iLife '08, .Mac, and MS > Office > 2004. I'm considering purchasing the new Photoshop Elements and > possibly > Adobe Lightroom for her, as she would like to be able to do more > than iPhoto > offers without needing to use my system (I have Photoshop CS and > Lightroom). > > Zane > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 13:03:59 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:05:13 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200804012003.m31K3xJX003824@onyx.spiritone.com> > I wish the Mac mini was closer in performance to the iMac. Give me > the iMac horsepower in a size similar to the Mac mini (hey, they've > got plenty of room to make it taller and still keep it small), and > let me choose my own screen. I know, I know, Apple has a love affair > with the all-in-one design. I think this boils down to what a lot of us say, there needs to be at least one more system in their lineup. There are a lot of people that the Mac Mini/iMac's are too limited for, yet the Mac Pro's are serious overkill. Something along the lines of the iMac in performance, but without the built in screen, at least two 3.5" SATA drive bays, and able to take at least 8GB RAM. It should also have multiple Firewire and USB 2.0 ports. In fact something about the size of a Macintosh IIcx would be perfect. Price it between $800-1500 depending on the CPU's, and they'd have a winner I think. I don't think card slots would be needed, though a Graphics slot might be nice. Zane From jleo at projectsupport.com Tue Apr 1 13:06:20 2008 From: jleo at projectsupport.com (Jesse Leo) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:07:04 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <20080401194842.9E36D18CB8E7@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: I use a Mini running Tiger with a 21" monitor all day, every day. For doing my basic work functions - MS Office, Filemaker, and the occasional light Photoshopping/Dreamweaving, etc - it's a fine machine. But for working a lot with video I don't think it would do as well as an iMac. Jesse From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 13:15:19 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:13:32 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> This is good news.. thanks!! On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Jesse Leo wrote: > I use a Mini running Tiger with a 21" monitor all day, every day. > For doing > my basic work functions - MS Office, Filemaker, and the occasional > light > Photoshopping/Dreamweaving, etc - it's a fine machine. But for > working a lot > with video I don't think it would do as well as an iMac. > > > Jesse > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 13:15:22 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:16:02 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <200804012003.m31K3xJX003824@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804012003.m31K3xJX003824@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4b1c0d7b0bacdcb5ad6b2472bafb99ec@comcast.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:03 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > There are a lot of people that the Mac > Mini/iMac's are too limited for, yet the Mac Pro's are serious > overkill. Yeah, I could warm up to a Mac Mini Pro, but knowing apple, it'd have a painful price, the entry level would be tragically crippled in some way, the high end model would be extortionate in price... I love apple's products, but their lineup and pricing could better reflect regular peoples' budgets...they'd still make a profit.. n From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 13:18:25 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:18:21 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> References: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> Message-ID: <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: >> But for working a lot >> with video I don't think it would do as well as an iMac. well, on that note, I have 2 G4 Minis and I do video with FC Studio and I have to say the Minis can do it. Obviously, you're not going to get HD performance, RT rendering and other things the more powerful Macs offer, but the Mini isn't some dumb kid's playtoy like they'd have you believe. On the mini I do video, the boot volume is a 7200RPM Firewire drive, which helps lots... I also had a great experience with a 600 mhz Snow iBook... Yes, the pro model was a bit faster, but 2-3 times the price; not 2-3 times the PERFORMANCE. you really pay thru the eye for that little extra squirt. n From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 13:27:30 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:26:49 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> References: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0EEDFF40-5416-4CC8-A811-3E56EDEACD7C@iapc.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:18 PM, n wrote: > > On the mini I do video, the boot volume is a 7200RPM Firewire > drive, which helps lots... Am I assuming you mean an -external- FW drive?? I could do that... > > I also had a great experience with a 600 mhz Snow iBook... Yes, the > pro model was a bit faster, but 2-3 times the price; not 2-3 times > the PERFORMANCE. > > you really pay thru the eye for that little extra squirt. > > n > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 13:33:08 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:34:52 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <0EEDFF40-5416-4CC8-A811-3E56EDEACD7C@iapc.net> References: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> <0EEDFF40-5416-4CC8-A811-3E56EDEACD7C@iapc.net> Message-ID: On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:27 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: > On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:18 PM, n wrote: > > >> >> On the mini I do video, the boot volume is a 7200RPM Firewire >> drive, which helps lots... > > Am I assuming you mean an -external- FW drive?? > > I could do that... Yes, I do mean an external FW drive...should have mentioned that! Takes an otherwise hamstrung computer and puts it more on par with a "pro" machine, and I am here to tell you, it PERFORMS. After running X bench about 10 times, I was averaging 55, which is approximately 1/2 the numerical score turned in by Dual-processor 2.5Ghz G5s, which, as we all know, cost much more, take more juice, and are much louder, heavier and bigger. Not a bad showing for the single-processor G4 Mini, I'd say... n From timk at iapc.net Tue Apr 1 13:43:35 2008 From: timk at iapc.net (Tim Kinsella) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:42:05 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: References: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> <0EEDFF40-5416-4CC8-A811-3E56EDEACD7C@iapc.net> Message-ID: <21366570-958F-42A2-9D89-6CC975BBBD99@iapc.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:33 PM, nk wrote: > > Yes, I do mean an external FW drive...should have mentioned that! > > Takes an otherwise hamstrung computer and puts it more on par with > a "pro" machine, and I am here to tell you, it PERFORMS. > > After running X bench about 10 times, I was averaging 55, which is > approximately 1/2 the numerical score turned in by Dual-processor > 2.5Ghz G5s, which, as we all know, cost much more, take more juice, > and are much louder, heavier and bigger. > > Not a bad showing for the single-processor G4 Mini, I'd say... I'm thinking a Mini would suit me fine. As long as you don't think your monitor looks like crap or lags, or whatever else might indicate low-end video performance.. sounds good to me! From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 13:44:32 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:45:05 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200804012044.m31KiWab004540@onyx.spiritone.com> > Yes, I do mean an external FW drive...should have mentioned that! > > Takes an otherwise hamstrung computer and puts it more on par with a > "pro" machine, and I am here to tell you, it PERFORMS. > > After running X bench about 10 times, I was averaging 55, which is > approximately 1/2 the numerical score turned in by Dual-processor > 2.5Ghz G5s, which, as we all know, cost much more, take more juice, > and are much louder, heavier and bigger. > > Not a bad showing for the single-processor G4 Mini, I'd say... I just had a thought, it would be interesting to try the 2Ghz Mini with a 10,000RPM SATA drive in a FireWire case. The only downside I can see is that you'd be limited to FW400, rather than FW800. Well, that and you'd want to build the drive enclosure yourself with plenty of cooling most likely. I don't know how hot 10k SATA drives get, but a lot of the 10K SCSI ones get plenty hot. The whole external drive bit is the reason the only problem I see with the Mini is the RAM. I wonder how well a fully decked out Mini would handle Aperture or Lightroom. I know Aperture expects a pretty serious graphics card. Zane From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 13:45:34 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:47:19 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <21366570-958F-42A2-9D89-6CC975BBBD99@iapc.net> References: <9873AD5C-E3D4-49A7-8B50-66749F113E45@iapc.net> <90e35dad68a7f518f5470402c626f3be@comcast.net> <0EEDFF40-5416-4CC8-A811-3E56EDEACD7C@iapc.net> <21366570-958F-42A2-9D89-6CC975BBBD99@iapc.net> Message-ID: <9AC1F47D-516E-4511-8C1A-134539182B6B@comcast.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: > As long as you don't think your monitor looks like crap or lags, or > whatever else might indicate low-end video performance.. sounds > good to me! No. what I see on-screen is just fine. I bought an Envision monitor at Costco, and I have no issues whatsoever. Now, when I bought my Minis in the late summer of 2005, I remember a *large* thread on Apple Discussions in the Mac Mini forum as to which monitors would or would not work with a G4 Mini...some people got some pretty disturbing results with this monitor or that. I was lucky in that the Envision worked perfectly. I can't say whether the Intel Minis also have the issue such that only *certain* monitors perform well with them. Also, I've never worked with an Intel Mini; these are G4 Minis and have no video lagging issues that I know of. Bottom line is: my current set up performs *SO* well, I'm in no hurry to part with my dough, and Apple had better straighten up and fly right if they expect a guy like me to fork over $1500 on a new machine. n From netkat at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 13:51:10 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (nk) Date: Tue Apr 1 13:53:37 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <200804012044.m31KiWab004540@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804012044.m31KiWab004540@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <06D784A2-6B0B-4DD0-8E32-149A8F1A27B4@comcast.net> On Apr 1, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The whole external drive bit is the reason the only problem I see > with the > Mini is the RAM. I wonder how well a fully decked out Mini would > handle > Aperture or Lightroom. I know Aperture expects a pretty serious > graphics > card. > > Zane Right. Well, I am eager to see what serious new upgrading of the Mini which I read of turns out to be. Maybe RAM capacity will get a boost? I am not familiar with Aperture (I know OF it..) but the app I use which really sucks down the juice is Lightwave...I can, with a few lights and shadows, glass, refraction, etc., create 3D scenes which are almost painful to work with. As a consequence, I work mostly in wireframe mode, but in Lightwave uses Open GL to preview things like textures, lights, and shadows... How do such Open GL demands compare with those of Aperture? Side note: I have developed a number of behaviours along the lines of working "smart" to compensate for lack of raw computer power, but there are some times when a little more power would be truly helpful. n From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 1 14:30:39 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Tue Apr 1 14:30:47 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: <06D784A2-6B0B-4DD0-8E32-149A8F1A27B4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200804012130.m31LUdY5005616@onyx.spiritone.com> > Right. Well, I am eager to see what serious new upgrading of the Mini > which I read of turns out to be. Maybe RAM capacity will get a boost? I really hope so, I could just about live within a slightly more sensible 4GB of RAM. My G5 2x2 has 5.5GB. > I am not familiar with Aperture (I know OF it..) but the app I use > which really sucks down the juice is Lightwave...I can, with a few > lights and shadows, glass, refraction, etc., create 3D scenes which > are almost painful to work with. As a consequence, I work mostly in > wireframe mode, but in Lightwave uses Open GL to preview things like > textures, lights, and shadows... > > How do such Open GL demands compare with those of Aperture? I'm honestly not sure, but from what I've heard about Aperture, and seen in its requirements, Aperture is probably worse. My G5 2x2 with a stock video card doesn't meet the requirements! Quite honestly Aperture looks to be a crippled piece of software designed to sell better Mac's. I bought Adobe Lightroom, and while it is slow to bring up new pictures initially, overall it performs very well. I shoot 12.2MP RAW digital photo's, so each one is about 20MB. > Side note: I have developed a number of behaviours along the lines of > working "smart" to compensate for lack of raw computer power, but > there are some times when a little more power would be truly helpful. I've developed a number of behaviors designed to save time, which is why I need so much RAM most of the time. In the past I needed that RAM just to handle my iPhoto library. But that was resolved a couple versions ago. Now iPhoto is simply to slow to use, but isn't memory bound. Zane From bill at wscd.biz Tue Apr 1 16:07:20 2008 From: bill at wscd.biz (William Scammell) Date: Tue Apr 1 16:08:03 2008 Subject: [X4U] New training dates In-Reply-To: <1DAB6ADB-FD15-4A6B-9D5F-C520C7358FDA@iapc.net> References: <1DAB6ADB-FD15-4A6B-9D5F-C520C7358FDA@iapc.net> Message-ID: <10EFDF7F-A841-4DE0-B0E2-E566B18D6C98@wscd.biz> perhaps this is anti-zombie training. i guess my "growing daisies" parents will also be making a show. i hope they like my haircut. :) -b ps: perhaps we should have some zombie haiku on friday...? On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Tim Kinsella wrote: > Oh, wow.. my parents are coming to visit?? > > They both passed away years ago... > > This could be exciting & life-changing!! > > Wow.. > > > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Bob Virzi wrote: > >> Do you see any problems with these training dates? >> >> Apr 28-30, 4-12pm (right after your parents visit) >> >> Jul 21-26, 7-4 (includes one Saturday) >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> Bob Virzi >> Verizon Network and Technology ? Product & Services Realization >> bob.virzi@verizon.com >> 781.466.2881 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> X4U mailing list >> X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com >> http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u >> >> Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price >> http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal William Scammell bill @ wscd.biz vox: 781-956-3548 fax: 978-594-5290 Accept risk. Accept responsibility. Put a lawyer out of business. From seasoft at west.net Tue Apr 1 16:29:21 2008 From: seasoft at west.net (Richard Hartman) Date: Tue Apr 1 16:29:33 2008 Subject: [X4U] Time Warp Hits System Logs Message-ID: <430D2D44-69AD-4F57-A792-7949F84951C7@west.net> Whilst playing around with Time Machine backups to a mounted AFP volume earlier today, evidently there was some kind of system error that was not reported or evident via the GUI but was recorded in the system & console logs, as I just discovered some 5.5 hours after they happened; nothing really remarkable about that, BUT... The thing is that All the console and system logs quit getting updates at that instant. I just noticed this while I was looking at the system log out of boredom. I was unable to do anything that would generate a log update (for example, I initiated a Time Machine backup which normally always reports progress to system; nothing). I rebooted the system and the log entries began to update normally. Here is the system log portion spanning the "missing" 5+ hours: ================== . . lots of logged errors, like... Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: disk6s2: 0x14 (UNDEFINED). Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/00000000200749a5 (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/0000000020076c6b (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/0000000020079a9c (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: [FSLogMsgOrder Last] Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/000000002007bcea (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: disk6s2: 0x14 (UNDEFINED). Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/000000002007eb80 (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/0000000020080fc9 (Input/output error) Apr 1 10:38:34 iMac20 kernel[0]: der First] Apr 1 10:38:33 iMac20 fseventsd[38]: failed to unlink old log file / Volumes/Backup of iMac20/.fseventsd/0000000020084845 (Input/output error) Apr 1 16:05:27 localhost kernel[0]: npvhash=4095 Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchctl.System[2]: launchctl: Please convert the following to launchd: /etc/mach_init.d/chum.plist Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchctl.System[2]: launchctl: Please convert the following to launchd: /etc/mach_init.d/ dashboardadvisoryd.plist Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchctl.System[2]: launchctl: Please convert the following to launchd: /etc/mach_init.d/ pilotfish.plist Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.distccdConfigd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.apache.httpd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.cups.cupsd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost com.apple.launchd[1] (org.ntp.ntpd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight Apr 1 16:05:26 localhost DirectoryService[11]: Launched version 5.2 (v514.4) . . lots more normal startup system log items ================== During that 5.5 hour time warp, lots of stuff went on; I was listening to itunes music, surfing with safari, receiving & sending mail, normal time machine backups, etc., etc. How in blazes can the logs go completely silent for so long with no observable operational consequences? Has anyone here seen such behavior? Should I be concerned? I am really, really confounded by this. Note: This is NOT an April Fool's joke (unless somebody at Apple programmed this log silence to mess with terminal noobs). Richard From neil at laubenthal.net Tue Apr 1 16:31:39 2008 From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal) Date: Tue Apr 1 16:31:58 2008 Subject: [X4U] Mac MIni? In-Reply-To: References: <200804011858.m31IwL14002678@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Hi TIm . . .I waited until the other dozen or so replies happened before I replied. I could pretend because it was I was _much smarter_ than other repliers . . .but that would be untrue. Actually, I was at work and decided to reply later:-) Coming from a G4/466 . . . the mini is a much better performer. Compared to an iMac; the mini is a bit anemic; but not so much as you might think. For your purposes . . . I would think it would be fine; the biggest issue I would have is that I consider 2 GB of RAM the bare minimum for Leopard and more is better. IIRC. I don't know the mini's RAM limits off hand . . .but that would be my biggest concern. If you can get at least 2 GB in it then I think you will certainly be satisfied with it . . . and given that you've already got the monitor/keyboard/mouse/ etc . . . it's hard to argue with the price. I use a first generation mini as my file server and Time Machine server for a couple of laptops at home . . . and it's more than sufficient for that. Sitting down and logging into the local console . . . it's certainly far more apparently responsive than the G4/500 with Tiger that it replaced as a file server. Go for it I would say, you won't be disappointed. On Apr 1, 2008, at 15:20, Tim Kinsella wrote: > I've been thinking about a Mac Mini, but see that the video RAM is > 'shared' system RAM. (like many laptops) > > Anyone have any experience with a Mac MIni?? > > It'd be a home computer, but I do minor/intermediate desktop > publishing work on the side, and a small non-profit website. > > (not heavy Photoshop, but some..) > > Cost is a major factor - I loove the MIni price point. > > (I have an LCD monitor, ext. FW DVD burner, & ext FW HDs) > > I don't -need- much, but I'd hate to be miserable if the video > performance is truly awful!! > > (I'm on a G4-466 now, sooo... ) > > Thanks. > Tim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From faramineux at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 16:48:21 2008 From: faramineux at comcast.net (faramineux galliano) Date: Tue Apr 1 16:54:00 2008 Subject: [X4U] OT - Problem with my DVD player In-Reply-To: <44CA64DD-E3B5-4451-B890-D0707A648381@comcast.net> References: <44CA64DD-E3B5-4451-B890-D0707A648381@comcast.net> Message-ID: Loose video cable. On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:49 AM, faramineux wrote: > The DVD player I use with my TV is now playing the DVDs in B&W. I > have tried 3 DVDs with the same results. Is it a sign of premature > death? TIA > > From mcclernan1 at comcast.net Tue Apr 1 17:45:56 2008 From: mcclernan1 at comcast.net (John McClernan) Date: Tue Apr 1 17:46:22 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> Message-ID: <562CE3D2-415A-4639-A117-A61C6B6A6857@comcast.net> Yes. Go to this site: www.perian.org and download the Perian plugin for QuickTime Pro (you must have QT Pro for this to work). When there, click on the tab that says "Watch" for the tutorial. It's short and easy to understand. Perian is free and will install properly configured. I use it all the time. Give me a shout if you get stuck. Cheers, John On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Robert wrote: > Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? > Thanks Bob > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From seasoft at west.net Tue Apr 1 18:24:33 2008 From: seasoft at west.net (Richard Hartman) Date: Tue Apr 1 18:24:40 2008 Subject: [X4U] Re: Time Warp Hits System Logs Message-ID: <8E806B6E-A8AE-4BC0-995A-2AB74CC90BA9@west.net> This was sent by accident to this list instead of the x-unix list; apologies. Still, the likely resolution is instructive; one of the x-unix gurus (Eric Christ) suggested the probable culprit: the system logging daemon (syslogd) likely got clobbered somehow. It can be restarted using the terminal, or for the terminal-phobic, re-activated by a reboot. Now, back to your normal programming... Richard ================= > From: Richard Hartman > Subject: [X4U] Time Warp Hits System Logs > . . snip . . > > The thing is that All the console and system logs quit getting updates > at that instant. I just noticed this while I was looking at the system > log out of boredom. I was unable to do anything that would generate a > log update (for example, I initiated a Time Machine backup which > normally always reports progress to system; nothing). I rebooted the > system and the log entries began to update normally. Here is the > system log portion spanning the "missing" 5+ hours: > . . snip . . > > How in blazes can the logs go completely silent for so long with no > observable operational consequences? Has anyone here seen such > behavior? Should I be concerned? I am really, really confounded by > this. > From list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net Wed Apr 2 03:25:21 2008 From: list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Wed Apr 2 03:25:55 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> Message-ID: <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:47:10AM CDT, Paul Moortgat wrote: > On 01 Apr 2008, at 17:09, Daly Jessup wrote: >> Paul Moortgat answered: >> Bob asked: >>>> >>>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks >>> >>> Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. >> >> Could you clarify this, Paul? I have Perian installed and have had for a >> long time. YouTube movies show up and play just fine. But I find no >> "Watch" button in the Perian pref pane, and otherwise have no idea how to >> follow what you are suggesting as a way to save the video to the computer. > > The Watch button is on the Perian website. Maybe you didn't download it > from somewhere else. Parsing the URL from the Activity window in Safari? It'd be nicer to be able to right-cilck Flash video and bring up a contextual menu to download it. -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From duanert at hughes.net Wed Apr 2 05:46:12 2008 From: duanert at hughes.net (Tom Renaud) Date: Wed Apr 2 05:46:53 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: <09D2205A-ABF2-4DCB-A336-3E95CEEA1F02@hughes.net> On Apr 2, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Eugene wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:47:10AM CDT, Paul Moortgat > wrote: >> On 01 Apr 2008, at 17:09, Daly Jessup wrote: >>> Paul Moortgat answered: >>> Bob asked: >>>>> >>>>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks >>>> >>>> Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. >>> >>> Could you clarify this, Paul? I have Perian installed and have had >>> for a >>> long time. YouTube movies show up and play just fine. But I find no >>> "Watch" button in the Perian pref pane, and otherwise have no idea >>> how to >>> follow what you are suggesting as a way to save the video to the >>> computer. >> >> The Watch button is on the Perian website. Maybe you didn't >> download it >> from somewhere else. > > Parsing the URL from the Activity window in Safari? > It'd be nicer to be able to right-cilck Flash video > and bring up a contextual menu to download it. If you use Firefox, try the DownloadHelper plugin. From explorerguy at mac.com Wed Apr 2 06:29:39 2008 From: explorerguy at mac.com (K. Jerry Smith) Date: Wed Apr 2 06:29:55 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <09D2205A-ABF2-4DCB-A336-3E95CEEA1F02@hughes.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> <09D2205A-ABF2-4DCB-A336-3E95CEEA1F02@hughes.net> Message-ID: <8D316A89-5E9D-40F2-9EF3-44CA91A68833@mac.com> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? >>>>>> Thanks http://www.cocoamug.com/cosmopod/ HTH, Jerry From lists at sofstats.com Wed Apr 2 16:03:50 2008 From: lists at sofstats.com (Rod Buchanan) Date: Wed Apr 2 16:04:43 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question Message-ID: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> I have a first-gen PowerMac G5 (2x2) with the original 64MB Radeon 9600 graphics card. The machine still runs great, but video performance can be slow at times. Would upgrading to a ATI RADEON 9600 PRO (256MB) help performance? I'm looking to get by as cheap as I can (it's too old to invest a lot of money in). TIA, -- Rod "Santorum. Isn't that Latin for asshole?" -- Former Sen. Bob Kerry, Nebraska From mcclernan1 at comcast.net Wed Apr 2 17:18:41 2008 From: mcclernan1 at comcast.net (John McClernan) Date: Wed Apr 2 17:19:10 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: Eugene, All you really have to do is to hold down your "option" key and click on that URL in the Activity window. It will start downloading right away. The downloaded file will be "get_video" but you can change it to any name you want, then add .flv to it and it will play in QuickTime after you have installed the Perian plugin. When it opens in QuickTime, you can "Save As..." a self-contained movie (.mov) or just leave it as .flv Cheers, John On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:25 AM, Eugene wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:47:10AM CDT, Paul Moortgat > wrote: >> On 01 Apr 2008, at 17:09, Daly Jessup wrote: >>> Paul Moortgat answered: >>> Bob asked: >>>>> >>>>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks >>>> >>>> Use Perian. and click "Watch" for the video. >>> >>> Could you clarify this, Paul? I have Perian installed and have >>> had for a >>> long time. YouTube movies show up and play just fine. But I find no >>> "Watch" button in the Perian pref pane, and otherwise have no >>> idea how to >>> follow what you are suggesting as a way to save the video to the >>> computer. >> >> The Watch button is on the Perian website. Maybe you didn't >> download it >> from somewhere else. > > Parsing the URL from the Activity window in Safari? > It'd be nicer to be able to right-cilck Flash video > and bring up a contextual menu to download it. > > > -- > Eugene > http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price > http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 2 20:35:50 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Wed Apr 2 20:36:03 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: At 6:03 PM -0500 4/2/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: >I have a first-gen PowerMac G5 (2x2) with the original 64MB Radeon >9600 graphics card. The machine still runs great, but video >performance can be slow at times. Would upgrading to a ATI RADEON >9600 PRO (256MB) help performance? > >I'm looking to get by as cheap as I can (it's too old to invest a >lot of money in). I'm running the same system. Let me guess you're looking at running Aperture? This was why I went with Adobe Lightroom. I'm not sure there is an *affordable* video card upgrade available unless you get lucky. At this point the only upgrades that really make sense are HD upgrades, as they can be moved to a new Mac Pro. Having said that, I'm sitting at 5.5GB, and moving to 8GB is getting tempting. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net Thu Apr 3 06:16:53 2008 From: list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Apr 3 06:17:00 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 07:18:41PM CDT, John McClernan wrote: > On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:25 AM, Eugene wrote: >>>> Bob asked: >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there any way to save a youtube video off of a web site? Thanks >> >> Parsing the URL from the Activity window in Safari? >> It'd be nicer to be able to right-cilck Flash video >> and bring up a contextual menu to download it. > > All you really have to do is to hold down your "option" key and click on > that URL in the Activity window. It will start downloading right away. The > downloaded file will be "get_video" but you can change it to any name you > want, then add .flv to it and it will play in QuickTime after you have > installed the Perian plugin. When it opens in QuickTime, you can "Save > As..." a self-contained movie (.mov) or just leave it as .flv It's still too many steps. And even though this works for YouTube and the CGI app named "get_video", it does not work for non-YouTube sites that use other CGI app names. Memorize different CGI app names for every different site? Not an elegant solution, which is something I've been searching for in Safari. BTW, I found a solution that works pretty well for Safari and YouTube. It's a Safari plugin called SafariStand. Installing is a bit of a pain. But it let's me simply command-click a YouTube video and it copies the already-downloaded FLV content (from Safari's cache) into a normal file. -- Eugene From XPressoBean at mac.com Thu Apr 3 06:24:06 2008 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Thu Apr 3 06:24:58 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: On 4/3/08 8:16 AM, Eugene wrote: > And even though this works for YouTube and the CGI app named "get_video", it > does not work for non-YouTube sites that use other CGI app names. The question was specifically about capturing YouTube videos (see the Subject), so the answers have skewed toward YouTube. :-) From winstonworks at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 3 10:08:59 2008 From: winstonworks at sympatico.ca (Winston MacKelvie) Date: Thu Apr 3 10:09:17 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use Seatubes fot get YouTube . Its free Winston -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080403/a8d5f3e9/attachment.html From paul.moortgat at pandora.be Thu Apr 3 10:27:29 2008 From: paul.moortgat at pandora.be (Paul Moortgat) Date: Thu Apr 3 10:28:09 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1488C58E-876A-4F61-96EE-958AE119E466@pandora.be> It's not free. It will expire in 11 days. Paul Moortgat On 03 Apr 2008, at 19:08, Winston MacKelvie wrote: > I use Seatubes fot get YouTube . Its free > > > Winston From mcclernan1 at comcast.net Thu Apr 3 20:50:36 2008 From: mcclernan1 at comcast.net (John McClernan) Date: Thu Apr 3 20:50:49 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: <2F0FB40B-44C6-4FE4-AA5A-F83D85C20C93@comcast.net> On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Eugene wrote: > On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 07:18:41PM CDT, John McClernan > wrote: >> >> All you really have to do is to hold down your "option" key and >> click on >> that URL in the Activity window. It will start downloading right >> away. The >> downloaded file will be "get_video" but you can change it to any >> name you >> want, then add .flv to it and it will play in QuickTime after you >> have >> installed the Perian plugin. When it opens in QuickTime, you can >> "Save >> As..." a self-contained movie (.mov) or just leave it as .flv > > It's still too many steps. And even though this works for YouTube and > the CGI app named "get_video", it does not work for non-YouTube sites > that use other CGI app names. Okay, name one. I just finished a podcast for my graduate class and I used downloaded video from more than a dozen sites OTHER THAN YouTube, because YouTube is blocked in my school, so YouTube was not an option for me. I used the method I described and the podcast was presented tonight in class and the videos were beautiful. Besides, you only asked for a method of downloading for YouTube. That's what was provided. Cheers, John From lists at sofstats.com Thu Apr 3 21:48:34 2008 From: lists at sofstats.com (Rod Buchanan) Date: Thu Apr 3 21:49:12 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: On Apr 2, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > At 6:03 PM -0500 4/2/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: > >> I have a first-gen PowerMac G5 (2x2) with the original 64MB Radeon >> 9600 graphics card. The machine still runs great, but video >> performance can be slow at times. Would upgrading to a ATI RADEON >> 9600 PRO (256MB) help performance? >> >> I'm looking to get by as cheap as I can (it's too old to invest a >> lot of money in). > > I'm running the same system. Let me guess you're looking at running > Aperture? This was why I went with Adobe Lightroom. I'm not sure > there is an *affordable* video card upgrade available unless you get > lucky. At this point the only upgrades that really make sense are > HD upgrades, as they can be moved to a new Mac Pro. Having said > that, I'm sitting at 5.5GB, and moving to 8GB is getting tempting. Aperture? No -- Hell, wife & I just joined the digital camera world in January. :) My thing is music. (A fifty-something ex "Rock & Roller" trying to learn Logic 8.) You're right about _affordable_ cards. The 9600 PRO/256 is the only thing I've seen in a while for < $350. I'm sitting at 3.5GB memory and don't think I'm maxing it out. But with memory prices as low as they are (and Logic's appetite) I'm tempted to stuff more in anyway. -- Rod "Politics and Poker, Politics and Poker, Shuffle up the cards, And find the joker. -- Sheldon Harnick and Jerry Bock, from "Fiorello" From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 3 22:21:56 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Thu Apr 3 22:22:35 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: At 11:48 PM -0500 4/3/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: >Aperture? No -- Hell, wife & I just joined the digital camera world >in January. :) My thing is music. (A fifty-something ex "Rock & >Roller" trying to learn Logic 8.) How can I put this... You've got to be F***** kidding me! You need a better graphics card for an Audio application? Now I know I'm right, Apple is writing software such that you need to upgrade when you shouldn't need to. That is just plain insane. I can sort of understand the need to upgrade for Aperture, I can't see how any audio software needs better graphics, I can't imagine it needing to be much more graphically intensive than Peak 2 on an old 8500/180. >You're right about _affordable_ cards. The 9600 PRO/256 is the only >thing I've seen in a while for < $350. I'm sitting at 3.5GB memory >and don't think I'm maxing it out. But with memory prices as low as >they are (and Logic's appetite) I'm tempted to stuff more in anyway. I did the graphics card upgrade for my G4/450 AGP, and it cost about $300. I did it so I could use all the features of I think 10.3. I should have saved the money and put it towards the G5 2x2 I'm running now, as I upgraded a few months later. With the way I use a computer, and 2GB kits nearing the $100 mark, going from 5.5GB to a full 8GB is very tempting. At the same time I can't help but think I should force myself to live in 5.5GB, and save the money towards an upgrade. One of these days I'm going to want a new Mac Pro, probably about the time I upgrade from Adobe Creative Suite Premium to CS3 (or maybe CS4). I'm doing some heavy Lightroom & Photoshop CS work tonight, and typing this while I wait on the various steps. So right now I'm wishing I'd already upgraded, but normally I'm just fine with the G5. :^) I hope to get another year or two's use out of this system (and it's already 4.4 years old. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net Fri Apr 4 04:59:59 2008 From: list-themacintoshguy at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Fri Apr 4 05:00:34 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <2F0FB40B-44C6-4FE4-AA5A-F83D85C20C93@comcast.net> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> <2F0FB40B-44C6-4FE4-AA5A-F83D85C20C93@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080404115959.GC2451@Macintosh-2.local> On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 10:50:36PM CDT, John McClernan wrote: > On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Eugene wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 07:18:41PM CDT, John McClernan >> wrote: >>> >>> All you really have to do is to hold down your "option" key and click on >>> that URL in the Activity window. It will start downloading right away. >>> The >>> downloaded file will be "get_video" but you can change it to any name you >>> want, then add .flv to it and it will play in QuickTime after you have >>> installed the Perian plugin. When it opens in QuickTime, you can "Save >>> As..." a self-contained movie (.mov) or just leave it as .flv >> >> It's still too many steps. And even though this works for YouTube and >> the CGI app named "get_video", it does not work for non-YouTube sites >> that use other CGI app names. > > Okay, name one. How about three? megavideo.com dailymotion.com metacafe.com > I just finished a podcast for my graduate class and I used downloaded video > from more than a dozen sites OTHER THAN YouTube, because YouTube is blocked > in my school, so YouTube was not an option for me. I used the method I > described and the podcast was presented tonight in class and the videos > were beautiful. Glad you found the video quality to be good enough. But this is irrelevant and tangental to the valid criticism that the specific download method mentioned is not only Safari-specific, but still takes too many steps. > Besides, you only asked for a method of downloading for YouTube. That's > what was provided. Not me. That was Robert who asked for a YouTube solution. Also, he never mentioned a specific browser, so the solution to use the Activity window in Safari is one correct method, but it is by no means the only method out there for Safari or any other browser. -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From lists at sofstats.com Fri Apr 4 05:11:34 2008 From: lists at sofstats.com (Rod Buchanan) Date: Fri Apr 4 05:12:39 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: <8A3B07B2-EEE7-4944-876D-9FD8D18B27A7@sofstats.com> On Apr 4, 2008, at 12:21 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > At 11:48 PM -0500 4/3/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: > >> Aperture? No -- Hell, wife & I just joined the digital camera >> world in January. :) My thing is music. (A fifty-something ex >> "Rock & Roller" trying to learn Logic 8.) > > How can I put this... You've got to be F***** kidding me! You need > a better graphics card for an Audio application? Now I know I'm > right, Apple is writing software such that you need to upgrade when > you shouldn't need to. That is just plain insane. I can sort of > understand the need to upgrade for Aperture, I can't see how any > audio software needs better graphics, I can't imagine it needing to be > much more graphically intensive than Peak 2 on an old 8500/180. No -- hehe -- though Logic is no ordinary audio application. It came on 7-8 DVDs and took _hours_ to install. I think the program that bugs me the most is Numbers. Could be its problems are more v1.0- related than the video card. Seems like there have been other programs (Adobe CS3 Web Premium maybe?) where I suspected a video upgrade would help, but right now which one(s) escape me. >> You're right about _affordable_ cards. The 9600 PRO/256 is the >> only thing I've seen in a while for < $350. I'm sitting at 3.5GB >> memory and don't think I'm maxing it out. But with memory prices >> as low as they are (and Logic's appetite) I'm tempted to stuff more >> in anyway. > > I did the graphics card upgrade for my G4/450 AGP, and it cost about > $300. I did it so I could use all the features of I think 10.3. I > should have saved the money and put it towards the G5 2x2 I'm > running now, as I upgraded a few months later. > > With the way I use a computer, and 2GB kits nearing the $100 mark, > going from 5.5GB to a full 8GB is very tempting. At the same time I > can't help but think I should force myself to live in 5.5GB, and > save the money towards an upgrade. One of these days I'm going to > want a new Mac Pro, probably about the time I upgrade from Adobe > Creative Suite Premium to CS3 (or maybe CS4). I'm doing some heavy > Lightroom & Photoshop CS work tonight, and typing this while I wait > on the various steps. So right now I'm wishing I'd already > upgraded, but normally I'm just fine with the G5. :^) I hope to get > another year or two's use out of this system (and it's already 4.4 > years old. Same here. At some point it becomes pouring money down the drain. Like you I hope for a couple more years out of "BigMac" before upgrading. -- Rod "The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." -- Anonymous From mcclernan1 at comcast.net Fri Apr 4 08:57:21 2008 From: mcclernan1 at comcast.net (John McClernan) Date: Fri Apr 4 08:58:44 2008 Subject: [X4U] youtube In-Reply-To: <20080404115959.GC2451@Macintosh-2.local> References: <4ADF809D-2F6B-4404-B0FB-07C3AC427FD7@telus.net> <0EC1A546-DA5B-4FA8-B02F-270AA6F91B57@pandora.be> <20080402102521.GA6188@Macintosh-2.local> <20080403131653.GA2301@Macintosh-2.local> <2F0FB40B-44C6-4FE4-AA5A-F83D85C20C93@comcast.net> <20080404115959.GC2451@Macintosh-2.local> Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Eugene wrote: > On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 10:50:36PM CDT, John McClernan > wrote: >> On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Eugene wrote: >>> On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 07:18:41PM CDT, John McClernan >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> All you really have to do is to hold down your "option" key and >>>> click on >>>> that URL in the Activity window. It will start downloading right >>>> away. >>>> The >>>> downloaded file will be "get_video" but you can change it to any >>>> name you >>>> want, then add .flv to it and it will play in QuickTime after >>>> you have >>>> installed the Perian plugin. When it opens in QuickTime, you can >>>> "Save >>>> As..." a self-contained movie (.mov) or just leave it as .flv >>> >>> It's still too many steps. And even though this works for >>> YouTube and >>> the CGI app named "get_video", it does not work for non-YouTube >>> sites >>> that use other CGI app names. >> >> Okay, name one. > > How about three? > > megavideo.com > dailymotion.com > metacafe.com > >> I just finished a podcast for my graduate class and I used >> downloaded video >> from more than a dozen sites OTHER THAN YouTube, because YouTube >> is blocked >> in my school, so YouTube was not an option for me. I used the >> method I >> described and the podcast was presented tonight in class and the >> videos >> were beautiful. > > Glad you found the video quality to be good enough. But this is > irrelevant and tangental to the valid criticism that the specific > download method mentioned is not only Safari-specific, but still > takes too many steps. > >> Besides, you only asked for a method of downloading for YouTube. >> That's >> what was provided. > > Not me. That was Robert who asked for a YouTube solution. Also, > he never mentioned a specific browser, so the solution to use the > Activity window in Safari is one correct method, but it is by no > means the only method out there for Safari or any other browser. Eugene, My apologies, my reply should have been to Robert, I guess. I just downloaded a video from each of those sites you mentioned - DailyMotion, MegaVideo and MetaCafe - using Safari and the Perian plugin that I recommended, and played them in QuickTime. So the method is NOT just YouTube specific. It may be Safari specific, but, so what? Robert asked the question on a Mac forum, so he must have Safari available to use. He can go with whichever recommendation he chooses, yours, mine or someone else's. To say that there are "too many steps" I feel that is an arbitrary assessment. I do not find it to be too many at all. It takes but seconds. Use whatever method works for you, I have settled on this one. It was one of the first ones that became widely available, so I'll stick with what has been working for me. The steps are not cumbersome, they take only seconds to execute and I'm not a lazy person. I work fast and crank out tons of content while others wallow in distraction. Using this method does not make me less efficient and I'm happy with it. Everyone should use what makes them the most comfortable and gets the job done efficiently. FWIW, that's my 2?. Have a blessed weekend, John From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 4 09:52:38 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri Apr 4 09:53:29 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <8A3B07B2-EEE7-4944-876D-9FD8D18B27A7@sofstats.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <8A3B07B2-EEE7-4944-876D-9FD8D18B27A7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: At 7:11 AM -0500 4/4/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: >No -- hehe -- though Logic is no ordinary audio application. It >came on 7-8 DVDs and took _hours_ to install. I think the program >that bugs me the most Good grief! >is Numbers. Could be its problems are more v1.0-related than the video card. I would hope that is v1.0 rather than video card. >Seems like there have been other programs (Adobe CS3 Web Premium >maybe?) where I suspected a video upgrade would help, but right now >which one(s) escape me. I tried out the demo for Adobe Dreamweaver CS3, and it seemed pretty sluggish (I miss Adobe PageMill 3). The app that is really bad is Adobe Acrobat 8. I think that was the first thing to make this system feel slow. I still use the 6.0.2 Acrobat Pro from CS Premium, it is nice and fast. >Same here. At some point it becomes pouring money down the drain. >Like you I hope for a couple more years out of "BigMac" before upgrading. Realistically the only thing at this point that makes sense are peripherals or HD's. I just added a 2nd 750GB drive to mine, replacing a 300GB. I figure the 750GB drives will move over to the Mac Pro when the time comes. I'll stick a small SATA drive in the G5, and the kids can use it (if it is still working). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edgould1948 at comcast.net Fri Apr 4 12:55:59 2008 From: edgould1948 at comcast.net (Ed Gould) Date: Fri Apr 4 12:58:32 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? Message-ID: I often get a PDF file that needs simple information added like name address & telephone number etc. Without laying $$ for the ADOBE product that allows this, is there an cheap way to do so. I do NOT want the full capability PDF editor to create forms just fill them in. Ed From netkat at comcast.net Fri Apr 4 13:11:21 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Fri Apr 4 13:11:29 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3f49c9551ad9b7f12a6eeb5c9023fcb2@comcast.net> Hi, Ed; a few ideas leap to the fore: 1. open a new Illustrator document, place the pdf page in the document and put it on a layer you can lock. then, have at it with type in a layer above that one..when you're done, save that as a pdf or whatever. 2. If you don't have Illustrator, you can use Photoshop, although typing will be clunkier 3. download yourself a copy of NeoOffice and place the PDF into the draw layer, and do as above with Illustrator. 4. Same might be possible with Inkscape, but I haven't tried it. At least the last 2 apps I mention are opensource freeware. n On Apr 4, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Ed Gould wrote: > I often get a PDF file that needs simple information added like name > address & telephone number etc. > > Without laying $$ for the ADOBE product that allows this, is there an > cheap way to do so. I do NOT want the full capability PDF editor to > create forms just fill them in. > > Ed From explorerguy at mac.com Fri Apr 4 13:19:17 2008 From: explorerguy at mac.com (K. Jerry Smith) Date: Fri Apr 4 13:19:35 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Ed Gould wrote: > I often get a PDF file that needs simple information added like name > address & telephone number etc. > > Without laying $$ for the ADOBE product that allows this, is there > an cheap way to do so. I do NOT want the full capability PDF editor > to create forms just fill them in. Ed, This one works very well: http://tinyurl.com/6zkb63 Regards, Jerry From netkat at comcast.net Fri Apr 4 13:33:34 2008 From: netkat at comcast.net (n) Date: Fri Apr 4 13:34:08 2008 Subject: [X4U] Coscto "QuickUpload" software Message-ID: <3352ea12620fd45758a4f8ba2f3feb21@comcast.net> anybody here using Costco's QuickUpload software for OS X? it's a thing they offer to make sending your image files to their photo lab for printing... wonder if there are any caveats to be aware of with its use with respect to security... n From macmonster at myrealbox.com Fri Apr 4 13:43:40 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Fri Apr 4 13:44:31 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> Message-ID: <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> On 3 Apr 2008, at 04:35, Zane H. Healy wrote: > At 6:03 PM -0500 4/2/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: >> I have a first-gen PowerMac G5 (2x2) with the original 64MB Radeon >> 9600 graphics card. The machine still runs great, but video >> performance can be slow at times. Would upgrading to a ATI RADEON >> 9600 PRO (256MB) help performance? >> >> I'm looking to get by as cheap as I can (it's too old to invest a >> lot of money in). > > I'm running the same system. ... I'm not sure there is an > *affordable* video card upgrade available unless you get lucky. ... You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. These cards are quite common - they're quite distinctive when you know what to look for, and you can easily get one on eBay for ?30 (or probably less now). It's not too difficult to do and although it's an imperfect solution, well, compared with the cost of an official card, it was the only answer that seemed to make sense when my G5's graphics card died. Stroller. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 4 14:32:28 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Fri Apr 4 14:33:59 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <200804042132.m34LWTsY010239@onyx.spiritone.com> > You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. > > These cards are quite common - they're quite distinctive when you > know what to look for, and you can easily get one on eBay for ?30 (or > probably less now). It's not too difficult to do and although it's an > imperfect solution, well, compared with the cost of an official card, > it was the only answer that seemed to make sense when my G5's > graphics card died. > > Stroller. How much Video RAM? I was lucky, mine started going out about a week prior to my Applecare expiring. They couldn't reproduce the problem (it was intermentent), but thankfully replaced it anyway. Zane From lists at sofstats.com Fri Apr 4 15:35:53 2008 From: lists at sofstats.com (Rod Buchanan) Date: Fri Apr 4 15:36:49 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <6D7472E5-478D-405A-B92A-EF41815AE16F@sofstats.com> On Apr 4, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Stroller wrote: > On 3 Apr 2008, at 04:35, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> At 6:03 PM -0500 4/2/08, Rod Buchanan wrote: >> >>> I have a first-gen PowerMac G5 (2x2) with the original 64MB Radeon >>> 9600 graphics card. The machine still runs great, but video >>> performance can be slow at times. Would upgrading to a ATI RADEON >>> 9600 PRO (256MB) help performance? >>> >>> I'm looking to get by as cheap as I can (it's too old to invest a >>> lot of money in). >> >> I'm running the same system. ... I'm not sure there is an >> *affordable* video card upgrade available unless you get lucky. ... > > You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. Thanks for the info. -- Rod "I have a 72-hour rule. If I stay in Washington for more than 72 hours, I have to bathe myself in the same stuff I use when one of my dogs gets into a fight with a skunk -- stuff to get the smell out." -- Gov. Brian Schweitzer, Montana From randy at macattorney.com Fri Apr 4 16:28:57 2008 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Fri Apr 4 16:29:27 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BC7E003-09E2-4466-BDA3-422F1B63B5E3@macattorney.com> On Apr 4, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Ed Gould wrote: > I often get a PDF file that needs simple information added like > name address & telephone number etc. > > Without laying $$ for the ADOBE product that allows this, is there > an cheap way to do so. I do NOT want the full capability PDF editor > to create forms just fill them in. There are two excellent free tools to do this. FormulatePro (free) http://code.google.com/p/formulatepro/ Formulate will open your PDF and allow you to quickly and easily fill in the blanks, without altering the original PDF. Formulate will even allow you to fill in locked PDF forms. Formulate comes with a practice form that will teach you how to use the program in just a few minutes. The other tool, if you are using Tiger or Leopard, is Preview ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From web at ocfm.com Fri Apr 4 16:32:17 2008 From: web at ocfm.com (Jack Forbush DO) Date: Fri Apr 4 16:33:01 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: <7BC7E003-09E2-4466-BDA3-422F1B63B5E3@macattorney.com> References: <7BC7E003-09E2-4466-BDA3-422F1B63B5E3@macattorney.com> Message-ID: PDFPen (and Pro) www.smileonmymac.com - Jack On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:28 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote: > > On Apr 4, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Ed Gould wrote: > >> I often get a PDF file that needs simple information added like >> name address & telephone number etc. >> >> Without laying $$ for the ADOBE product that allows this, is there >> an cheap way to do so. I do NOT want the full capability PDF >> editor to create forms just fill them in. > > > There are two excellent free tools to do this. > > FormulatePro (free) > http://code.google.com/p/formulatepro/ > Formulate will open your PDF and allow you to quickly and easily > fill in the blanks, without altering the original PDF. Formulate > will even allow you to fill in locked PDF forms. > Formulate comes with a practice form that will teach you how to use > the program in just a few minutes. > > The other tool, if you are using Tiger or Leopard, is Preview > > > ___________________________________________ > Randy B. Singer > Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) > > Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance > http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html > ___________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Pricehttp:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From XPressoBean at mac.com Fri Apr 4 19:30:17 2008 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Fri Apr 4 19:32:58 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: <3f49c9551ad9b7f12a6eeb5c9023fcb2@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 4/4/08 3:11 PM, n wrote: > > a few ideas leap to the fore: In addition to the ideas already posted, if the PDF has been correctly prepared by the sender (to enable the document for commenting), you can use a current version (7 or 8) the very free Adobe Reader to fill in and save the PDFs. Or so I've been emphatically told on another list. I don't know, because I do have Acrobat. peace, Linda From lstnmt at bresnan.net Fri Apr 4 21:07:34 2008 From: lstnmt at bresnan.net (Jens Selvig) Date: Fri Apr 4 21:09:02 2008 Subject: [X4U] Coscto "QuickUpload" software In-Reply-To: <3352ea12620fd45758a4f8ba2f3feb21@comcast.net> References: <3352ea12620fd45758a4f8ba2f3feb21@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6E6C3641-0A95-48D9-BBCD-B5C25A6F6904@bresnan.net> I have been using their service for some time now. Not sure what security you are thinking about. You have the option of opening your photo galleries to the public or not. (I have not) Or are you thinking about ordering product via the CostCo web site? If your concern is about access to your photos, then I'd say printing them yourself is the only sure fire way to protect them. Certainly any place you download your images to has access to them at some fundamental level. Jens On Apr 4, 2008, at 2:33 PM, n wrote: > anybody here using Costco's QuickUpload software for OS X? > it's a thing they offer to make sending your image files to their > photo lab for printing... > > wonder if there are any caveats to be aware of with its use with > respect to security... Jens Selvig ...Lost in Montana... From ronsteinke at mac.com Fri Apr 4 21:12:26 2008 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Fri Apr 4 21:13:16 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> On 4 Apr, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Stroller wrote: > You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. I must confess my ignorance. Just exactly how is "flashing" a PC card done? I have heard about this before, but never had it explained to me. From wendy_austin at mac.com Fri Apr 4 23:59:51 2008 From: wendy_austin at mac.com (Wendy S. Austin) Date: Sat Apr 5 00:01:39 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B46C4B9-6193-4E5B-9894-568EAD1694E0@mac.com> Interesting article here on Preview and PDF http://www.macworld.com/article/132468/2008/04/workingmac2504.html Wendy ____________________________________________________ Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin Pomponette via Surinam Mauritius Island Mob: +2302560182 From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 00:55:52 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 00:56:49 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <200804042132.m34LWTsY010239@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200804042132.m34LWTsY010239@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On 4 Apr 2008, at 22:32, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. >> >> These cards are quite common - they're quite distinctive when you >> know what to look for, and you can easily get one on eBay for ?30 (or >> probably less now). It's not too difficult to do and although it's an >> imperfect solution, well, compared with the cost of an official card, >> it was the only answer that seemed to make sense when my G5's >> graphics card died. > > How much Video RAM? Looks like 128meg in System Profiler. If that's correct, then that's probably the only realistic option as far as flashing is concerned - when I looked at the MacElite pages (the new name for the StrangeDogs boys) there seemed only to be this one particular card that worked optimally. Other cards were quirky - for instance a card with dual DVI out didn't work when connected to DVI monitors, but only when using VGA adaptors; other charismatic features were more problematic, IIRC. The 9800 Pro based on ATi's reference design "just works" - perfectly and the way you'd expect it to. > I was lucky, mine started going out about a week prior to my Applecare > expiring. My experiences with this G5 tempt me towards the full 3-year Applecare next time. I've always got it for laptops in the past, but working with PCs had led me to perceive towers as "repairable". But the cost of Applecare makes a MacPro seem even less affordable. : ( It seems like plumbers & builders can tell when the economy is on a downturn - all my customers are complaining of cashflow problems at the moment, and taking ages to pay their bills. (Having said that, I just looked at the MacPro pages on Apple.com, and they're showing only a 1.6x or 2x performance increase against a G5 on many applications. Admittedly the G5 is a quad-core, but still... I guess I expected more, somehow. Maybe this'll make waiting to afford an upgrade less frustrating.) Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 01:19:12 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 01:19:39 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> Message-ID: <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> On 5 Apr 2008, at 05:12, Ronald Steinke wrote: > On 4 Apr, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Stroller wrote: > >> You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. > > I must confess my ignorance. Just exactly how is "flashing" a PC > card done? I have heard about this before, but never had it > explained to me. There's some kind of firmware in the card, so you're just updating it with a hacked version. As indicated at , it's a case of finding the appropriate (command-line) utility & firmware and then a handful of commands at DOS prompt. I found it a little fiddly - there's more than one flashing program you can use, with different syntax; it's easy to get confused over the firmware files, take a backup of your original one &c - but really not too arduous at all. The card I'm using is the 9800 Pro 128MB, first entry at . Like I say, these are common as much & cheap as chips on fleaBay - many from different brands are identical, but as long as you know that you're looking at a photo of the actual card listed, that it's a "Pro" not an "SE" model, that it's 128meg &c they're quite easy to identify. I have a second which I have been meaning to flash as a "spare", but it's seen a fair been of use in my Windows box meantime. I don't know why I overlooked the "9800 Pro 256MB - DDR2" at the time I needed a card for looking - it is probably less common, but perhaps the hacked firmware wasn't available at the time, either. If I thought it'd make a massive difference to Aperture I might start hunting for one. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 02:04:17 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 02:09:14 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <200804042132.m34LWTsY010239@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On 5 Apr 2008, at 08:55, Stroller wrote: > >>> You can flash a PC's ATi 9800 Pro to a Mac firmware. >>> ... > > Looks like 128meg in System Profiler. > > If that's correct, then that's probably the only realistic option > as far as flashing is concerned ... Correction: Looks like there's a 256meg Geforce 6200 card that appears to work well, and one new enough that it's common (at least in Jan 2008). http://themacelite.wikidot.com/xfx-6200-agp Stroller. From lahaber at mac.com Sat Apr 5 09:06:41 2008 From: lahaber at mac.com (Lawrence Haber) Date: Sat Apr 5 09:07:08 2008 Subject: [X4U] iTune Podcast error -3150 Message-ID: <18F5FF3D-927D-4A0D-84F8-F768CD84BF16@mac.com> Hi, I subscribe to a number of podcasts via iTunes and a few weeks ago a number of podcasts from the Leo Laporte empire started generating error message -3150 whenever I attempted to download them. iTunes would "see" that there was a new episode but the download went no where. Curious. Also failed via direct download through Safari. Interestingly enough, other podcasts continued to download without any disruption. I happened to try to download when I had my MBP in an airport lounge, via wifi, and the missing episodes downloaded without a hitch. At home, downloading was still failing. I then connected my MBP to my cable modem rather then via wifi through my Airport Extreme and low and behold, the episodes downloaded. So, the problem isn't with my ISP nor with my MBP but there seems to be something with the Airport Extreme. I don't think I have touched the settings and I cannot see anything that would disrupt the downloading of a podcast and otherwise I am unaware of any issues on anything else. Any idea what is causing this curious behavior? TIA, Larry From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 5 10:15:07 2008 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sat Apr 5 10:16:02 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: At 9:19 AM +0100 4/5/08, Stroller wrote: >I don't know why I overlooked the "9800 Pro 256MB - DDR2" at the >time I needed a card for looking - it is probably less common, but >perhaps the hacked firmware wasn't available at the time, either. If >I thought it'd make a massive difference to Aperture I might start >hunting for one. Would something like this help at all with Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop CS? The need to upgrade for Aperture was part of why I went with Lightroom rather than Aperture. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ronsteinke at mac.com Sat Apr 5 12:46:39 2008 From: ronsteinke at mac.com (Ronald Steinke) Date: Sat Apr 5 12:47:06 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On 5 Apr, 2008, at 1:19 AM, Stroller wrote: > There's some kind of firmware in the card, so you're just updating > it with a hacked version. This is not exactly something that a Mac user is familiar with. All that PC language and the need to use an actual PC machine to do the work isn't what I had in mind. I don't have a PC that I can access to do work that I don't understand, so I guess that "flashing" a PC card isn't a chore that I will be doing soon. Thanks anyway for the info. From mcclernan1 at comcast.net Sat Apr 5 13:24:22 2008 From: mcclernan1 at comcast.net (John McClernan) Date: Sat Apr 5 13:24:42 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: <0B46C4B9-6193-4E5B-9894-568EAD1694E0@mac.com> References: <0B46C4B9-6193-4E5B-9894-568EAD1694E0@mac.com> Message-ID: <934ABA56-E67F-493B-899B-4871E1A43F80@comcast.net> Wendy, My medical claim form that I send in with receipts for reimbusement is a pdf file. I can use Preview or Adobe Reader to fill in the fields and print the form, but I cannot save it. I don't know if the pdf has been specially "reader enabled", but I do know that they used "Acrobat PDF Maker 7.0 for Word" to create it. Cheers, John On Apr 5, 2008, at 2:59 AM, Wendy S. Austin wrote: > Interesting article here on Preview and PDF > > http://www.macworld.com/article/132468/2008/04/workingmac2504.html > > Wendy > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin > Pomponette via Surinam > Mauritius Island > Mob: +2302560182 > > > > _______________________________________________ > X4U mailing list > X4U@listserver.themacintoshguy.com > http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/mailman/listinfo/x4u > > Seven Cent Deals - Great legacy stuff Great Legacy Price http:// > www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?cat=Seven+Cent+Deal From ken at schneider.net Sat Apr 5 13:30:19 2008 From: ken at schneider.net (Ken Schneider) Date: Sat Apr 5 13:30:41 2008 Subject: [X4U] Network Cables and Speed Message-ID: There is so much different advice about ethernet cables that I am confused. Some people say that to get gigabit speeds you need to use Cat6 cables. Some say Cat5e is OK and some say Cat5 is OK for short runs. I want to get the fastest speeds possible. My longest cable run is 25 feet. Do I need Cat6? If I need to get Cat6 cables I will since they will be fairly short. Also, how can I tell how fast my network is running? I've looked for applications that measure this but haven't found any. Is there any software that will tell me the speed of my data transfers? Thanks, -= Ken =- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080405/722f0836/attachment.html From randy at macattorney.com Sat Apr 5 14:18:59 2008 From: randy at macattorney.com (Randy B. Singer) Date: Sat Apr 5 14:21:32 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: <934ABA56-E67F-493B-899B-4871E1A43F80@comcast.net> References: <0B46C4B9-6193-4E5B-9894-568EAD1694E0@mac.com> <934ABA56-E67F-493B-899B-4871E1A43F80@comcast.net> Message-ID: <01062FC9-04AB-4367-80C1-F298D05FCCA8@macattorney.com> On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:24 PM, John McClernan wrote: > My medical claim form that I send in with receipts for reimbusement > is a pdf file. I can use Preview or Adobe Reader to fill in the > fields and print the form, but I cannot save it. I don't know if > the pdf has been specially "reader enabled", but I do know that > they used "Acrobat PDF Maker 7.0 for Word" to create it. Formulate will allow you to save the changes. (Actually the changes will be saved outside of the original PDF, which will be untouched. But the info will still be saved and re-usable.) FormulatePro (free) http://code.google.com/p/formulatepro/ ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html ___________________________________________ From dlabore1 at comcast.net Sat Apr 5 14:49:46 2008 From: dlabore1 at comcast.net (Doug LaBore) Date: Sat Apr 5 14:50:39 2008 Subject: [X4U] Network Cables and Speed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try netmonitor. http://homepage.mac.com/rominar/net.html On 4/5/08 3:30 PM, "Ken Schneider" wrote: > There is so much different advice about ethernet cables that I am confused. > Some people say that to get gigabit speeds you need to use Cat6 cables. Some > say Cat5e is OK and some say Cat5 is OK for short runs. I want to get the > fastest speeds possible. My longest cable run is 25 feet. Do I need Cat6? If I > need to get Cat6 cables I will since they will be fairly short. > > Also, how can I tell how fast my network is running? I've looked for > applications that measure this but haven't found any. Is there any software > that will tell me the speed of my data transfers? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080405/db1cdf03/attachment.html From winstonworks at sympatico.ca Sat Apr 5 14:55:22 2008 From: winstonworks at sympatico.ca (Winston MacKelvie) Date: Sat Apr 5 14:55:46 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: <934ABA56-E67F-493B-899B-4871E1A43F80@comcast.net> References: <0B46C4B9-6193-4E5B-9894-568EAD1694E0@mac.com> <934ABA56-E67F-493B-899B-4871E1A43F80@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9A3DE139-28C8-4AA1-BF2D-611BE3673948@sympatico.ca> John, If you can print it you should be able to save it as pdf from the print dialogue box. No? Winston -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://listserver.themacintoshguy.com/pipermail/x4u/attachments/20080405/8d5aa7e6/attachment.html From douglist at macnauchtan.com Sat Apr 5 15:38:52 2008 From: douglist at macnauchtan.com (Doug McNutt) Date: Sat Apr 5 15:39:57 2008 Subject: [X4U] Network Cables and Speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 16:49 -0500 4/5/08, Doug LaBore wrote: >On 4/5/08 3:30 PM, "Ken Schneider" wrote: > >There is so much different advice about ethernet cables that I am confused. Some people say that to get gigabit speeds you need to use Cat6 cables. Some say Cat5e is OK and some say Cat5 is OK for short runs. I want to get the fastest speeds possible. My longest cable run is 25 feet. Do I need Cat6? If I need to get Cat6 cables I will since they will be fairly short. My son is seriously using gigabit ethernet. He finds that about a meter is all he can get with any cables. 25 feet is something more than 25 nanoseconds delay just on speed-of-light considerations. You'll have some 25 bits in transit along the line at 1 Gb/sec. Think about it. -- --> From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <-- From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 15:47:35 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 15:49:22 2008 Subject: [X4U] Network Cables and Speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5 Apr 2008, at 21:30, Ken Schneider wrote: > There is so much different advice about ethernet cables that I am > confused. Some people say that to get gigabit speeds you need to > use Cat6 cables. Some say Cat5e is OK and some say Cat5 is OK for > short runs. I want to get the fastest speeds possible. My longest > cable run is 25 feet. Do I need Cat6? If I need to get Cat6 cables > I will since they will be fairly short. I'm pretty sure that Cat 5 is within specification for gigabit - the differences between the 3 aren't really that significant. My laptop has definitely configured itself to gigabit when connected to 25' - and probably 25m - runs. You're unlikely to notice any difference between the three. > Also, how can I tell how fast my network is running? I've looked > for applications that measure this but haven't found any. Is there > any software that will tell me the speed of my data transfers? Honestly, this is unlikely to be important. When I was at uni - perhaps 7 years ago? - I had a friend who still had a 10mBit card. Instead of transferring in less than 2 minutes, as I had come to expect - CD images took over 20 minutes (and perhaps nearer to 30). Based on that back-of-a-fag-packet maths you can expect a CD image to transfer in under 12 seconds using gigabit, only for a DVD's worth of data are you up to 2 minutes again. You're pretty much maxing out a fast hard-drive at gigabit, so - overlooking any thing else going on in your computer - you're probably not going to be able to wrap TCP header information around it & still get it down the wire at the same speed. I think I've read of people being quite happy getting c 600mbps or 700mbps out of gigabit in the real world, although I don't know the details or if that's current. Stroller. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 15:52:34 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 15:52:45 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: <079E2580-996D-464F-BF1E-D90B110430E7@sofstats.com> <25856819-9962-4DD8-BC3C-B753726D2F4B@myrealbox.com> <4A2451BA-E0DE-4442-83E1-07C4E5254F49@mac.com> <95A423B3-6E1A-4177-86C7-CF42D884D30D@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On 5 Apr 2008, at 20:46, Ronald Steinke wrote: > On 5 Apr, 2008, at 1:19 AM, Stroller wrote: > >> There's some kind of firmware in the card, so you're just updating >> it with a hacked version. > > This is not exactly something that a Mac user is familiar with. All > that PC language and the need to use an actual PC machine to do the > work isn't what I had in mind. "Sounds a bit complicated to me", or "sounds a bit fiddly, thanks anyway" would have been a perfectly adequate answer. Perhaps it's just me, but I find your words "not exactly something that a Mac user is familiar with" slightly patronising. Oh! Obviously Mac users are too good for that sort thing. Jolly sorry, old fellow. Mistook you for one of those plebs, y'know. It makes me want to reply, "well, not _all_ Mac users are ignorant". I believe there is a Mac utility for undertaking this task, but obviously ascertaining that would've required you to do some homework on the subject. Stroller. From XPressoBean at mac.com Sat Apr 5 18:18:32 2008 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Sat Apr 5 18:19:27 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/5/08 5:52 PM, Stroller wrote: > "Sounds a bit complicated to me", or "sounds a bit fiddly, thanks > anyway" would have been a perfectly adequate answer. Those might have been "adequate" answers, but they weren't answers that fit his situation. He gave an answer appropriate to his situation: using a PC machine isn't what he had in mind. > Perhaps it's just me, but I find your words "not exactly something > that a Mac user is familiar with" slightly patronising. Perhaps it's just you. I don't feel patronized by that remark. It certainly isn't something a typical Mac user is familiar with. He didn't say it was something a Mac user couldn't do, wouldn't do, or was "above" doing -- just something they aren't familiar with. > Oh! Obviously Mac users are too good for that sort thing. That's your own chip on your own shoulder. No one said that Mac users are too good for that sort of thing. He *did* say he didn't have a Windows computer to use, but that's not the same thing. From macmonster at myrealbox.com Sat Apr 5 20:48:40 2008 From: macmonster at myrealbox.com (Stroller) Date: Sat Apr 5 20:49:35 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C6967E0-E952-4B87-9098-910A031153A9@myrealbox.com> On 6 Apr 2008, at 02:18, Linda wrote: >> "Sounds a bit complicated to me", or "sounds a bit fiddly, thanks >> anyway" would have been a perfectly adequate answer. > > Those might have been "adequate" answers, but they weren't answers > that fit > his situation. He gave an answer appropriate to his situation: > using a PC > machine isn't what he had in mind. As I said, I don't believe that a PC is necessary. I'm think there's a Mac program available, but for various reasons I preferred to use the DOS app, and I just posted the first link I could find. The criteria not to use a PC was not specified in the previous request for information. >> Perhaps it's just me, but I find your words "not exactly something >> that a Mac user is familiar with" slightly patronising. > > ... It certainly > isn't something a typical Mac user is familiar with. The difference is in the word, "typical", which Ronald didn't bother to use. As I said, not _all_ Mac users are ignorant or incapable. > He didn't say it was > something a Mac user couldn't do, wouldn't do, or was "above" doing > -- just > something they aren't familiar with. So, it "sounds a bit complicated" for the average Mac user, then, yes? Stroller. From dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 6 05:44:49 2008 From: dledger at ivdcs.demon.co.uk (David Ledger) Date: Sun Apr 6 06:04:32 2008 Subject: [X4U] Network Cables and Speed In-Reply-To: <20080406034933.A79C919C74DB@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> References: <20080406034933.A79C919C74DB@listserver.themacintoshguy.com> Message-ID: >From: Ken Schneider >There is so much different advice about ethernet cables that I am >confused. Some people say that to get gigabit speeds you need to use >Cat6 cables. Some say Cat5e is OK and some say Cat5 is OK for short >runs. I want to get the fastest speeds possible. My longest cable run >is 25 feet. Do I need Cat6? If I need to get Cat6 cables I will since >they will be fairly short. >Also, how can I tell how fast my network is running? I've looked for >applications that measure this but haven't found any. Is there any >software that will tell me the speed of my data transfers? As I understand it, the cables differ in twist pitch, screening, and connector quality. The other factor is the number of plug/socket joins in the run. I have never worked with the actual cables used with Gb ethernet, but have long worked on systems that are connected with them over distances at least as large as 25'. The standards are explained at In practice, achieving Gb speeds with domestic priced components depends to some extent on luck. When it comes to speed, remember that the data bits will be clocked out at the rated interval whatever is used. What matters is how many packets fail to be received correctly. David -- David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK. HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk) david.ledger@ivdcs.co.uk www.ivdcs.co.uk From XPressoBean at mac.com Sun Apr 6 08:14:28 2008 From: XPressoBean at mac.com (Linda) Date: Sun Apr 6 08:14:59 2008 Subject: [X4U] G5 Video Card Question In-Reply-To: <4C6967E0-E952-4B87-9098-910A031153A9@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On 4/5/08 10:48 PM, Stroller wrote: > The criteria not to use a PC was not specified in the previous request for > information. It's a Mac list. The criteria to use a Mac rather than a Windows computer is directly implied, and shouldn't need to be re-stated to get Mac-related answers. :-) > So, it "sounds a bit complicated" for the average Mac user, then, yes? No. It sounds like something I am not familiar with. I'm also not familiar with drinking Diet Sierra Mist soda, but that doesn't mean it's complicated, either. If you're sure there's a Mac-centric way to do it, why not share it with us? From Robert at Ameeti.net Sun Apr 6 08:24:57 2008 From: Robert at Ameeti.net (Robert Ameeti) Date: Sun Apr 6 08:26:00 2008 Subject: [X4U] Is there a *CHEAP* tool to fill in a PDF form? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:19 PM -0400, 4/4/08, K. Jerry Smith wrote: >This one works very well: >http://tinyurl.com/6zkb63 Would you mind please telling people where you are sending them when you use these anonymous links? Many users might already know of the solution or know that they don't want to go there but without knowing where 'there' is, they are stuck either trusting that you know more than they do or perhaps they are missing out due their choice to not trust anonymous references. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Robert Ameeti It is amazing what you can accomplish