Pioneer 107 and DVD media question

[csean at poc.it]

on 02/02/2004 23:25, Power Macintosh G4 List at G4 at lists.themacintoshguy.com
wrote:

>> He may indeed have a different point of view, I sincerely hope he
>> does, but
>> I assume he's perfectly capable of telling me his point of view if he
>> wants
>> to, either on the list or privately.
> 
> Look, this list doesn't just happen. There is a guy in Portland who
> provides resources and gives of his time to make sure this list works.
> You posted a question, I pointed out to you that your question was
> dicey. At this point, it might conceivably be polite ask the list owner
> whether he objects to that particular topic or not before going on.

I agree, and I did ask him to express his views, objections, etc. in my last
posting. 
And you pointed out that my question was not "dicey", but "illegal in more
than one country". But you didn't say which countries. You implied that one
of the countries was the USA, opining that the US-based listowner could get
in trouble re. US laws, but then you said that US law on the issue has not
been finalized yet, and may not be finalized for some time.


> This is not about self-censorship. You can search the net and you'll
> find tons of references to the subject; there are even Internet boards
> dedicated exclusively to exchanging info on how to pirate software --
> and I shouldn't be surprised if there were one (or more) dedicated
> specifically to copying commercial DVDs. All that is between you, your
> ISP, and the people who post the info. But what is posted on this list
> -- if it is illegal -- might involve also the list owner.

I referred to a tendency to self-censorship that can arise when people feel
threatened, or think they feel threatened. Self-censorship may even increase
in situations of legal ambiguity, in situations where laws, in fact, have
not been finalized. Our discussion of the laws on fair use copying of one's
own DVDs seems to indicate that at present there are no clear cut laws
against it, though there may be in the future, at least in the USA.
 
>> You start out by saying simply that "In more than one country, the
>> operation
>> you describe is illegal".
>> Yet no further information is provided. Not which countries, no
>> quoting of
>> said laws, no links to the relative legal decisions, etc.
> 
> Are you joking? You want me to provide you with a legal opinion,
> complete with full references on the issue? I'll be more than glad to.
> I charge USD 200/hour (dirt cheap, btw, in this business), and I
> estimate the research will take me about 12 hours. I'll start working
> on it as soon as I receive your cheque. (Incidentally, in one of the
> post I already provided you with some free tidbits of info -- see ref
> to Norway -- that's just to whet your appetite.)

No, thanks, I know enough Canadian lawyers already, though few of the dirt
cheap ones. What I did make reference to was your point-blank statement that
"in more than one country...", though you didn't list any. The Norwegian
tidbit was a ruling you said legalized DVD backups. But anyway.
 
>> But the fact that said questions do slip thru and get
>> posted does not constitute a prosecutable act on the list operator's
>> part.
>> This has been established in law.
> 
> To quote from the classics: " [...] no further information is provided.
> Not which countries, no quoting of said laws, no links to the relative
> legal decisions, etc."

Fair enough, and haste makes waste. I'll trade ya my research for yers,
straight up, no cheques asked, none earned (or is it "checks", seeing as you
work in USD?)
> 
>> But would a US-based list owner "get in trouble" for providing Chinese
>> citizens with the opportunity to break Chinese law?
> 
> Probably not. But he might "get in trouble" for providing anyone with
> the opportunity to break US law.

Which kind of takes us around in circles again, seeing as I'm not in the US,
nor (as some have said here) does the US yet have a law against DVD backups.
Nor does Italy. Further, I have no intention of copying US-made and
-distributed DVDs; indeed, I don't even own any.
Or are you referring to the fact that, if someone on the list were to answer
my original question, the list owner might get into trouble because a US
resident might read the exchange between me and another person, and use that
information to break US law, at some time in the future, if such a law were
ever passed in the US? Hmmm. I don't know. I mean, you may be right (that's
what you get the big bucks for, eh?), but heck. That's no way to go about
things. I guess at this point we could use some input from the listowner,
who no one wants to get in trouble.
(All I wanted to do was keep the kids' Nutella-soaked fingers off our good
copy of the Teletubbies!)

Chris

P.S. Other lists I know of have list "nannies" to help the listowner. Though
probably far too long on wind and short on facts, I'd be more than willing
to help out in said role; though given his tone, temperament and vocation,
and despite the word's potentially offensive (to finely tuned Canadian ears)
sexist undertones, Alex may be the more suitable choice. Anyone?