On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 10:35 AM, Steven Rogers wrote: > > On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 01:47 AM, Mark M. Florida wrote: > >> . . . My point is that, in my opinion, Apple wasted so much time >> making the GUI look "gooey" (pardon the stupid pun) that they should >> have spent on getting the OS a little more optimized. Here we are 4 >> years after the release of the first OS called "X" (that's "ten", you >> know), and it's still super bloated, buggy, slow, etc. . . . > > OS X is certainly not "super bloated". The OS might not be perfect, > but I wouldn't call it buggy now. You need at least 128 MB of RAM *just for the OS*. I know RAM is cheap, but is that any reason for sloppy programming? Try running OS X on less-than-optimal hardware (like a 350 MHz iMac with 128 MB RAM) -- no joy. BeOS was *F*A*S*T* on the current-at-the-time 604-based hardware -- the only reason it never made it to G3 or G4 processors was because Apple stopped giving away the family jewels to the cloners and other developers (like Be) when they switched to the G3 processor, so the documentation was not available to continue BeOS development on the new hardware. Sad really. And around the same time all of this was going on, PowerComputing designed the fastest Mac (clone) around anywhere at the time. But guess what? They couldn't release it because Apple wouldn't let them, and we all had to settle for Apple's half-assed G3 systems (compared to PowerComputing's powerhouse offerings anyway). Imagine a G3 tower with 6 PCI slots, drive bays out the wazoo, and more RAM slots than were conceivable at the time... Now all you can do is imagine it, because Apple killed it, and they never made a beige G3 with anywhere near the versatility or expandability of the PowerComputing "G3". Here's an old post I found on geek.com, from the end of the "Mac clone era": http://www.geek.com/techupdate/macfrust.htm Another from LowEndMac: http://lowendmac.com/archive/010209.html That kind of sums it up. In my opinion, the whole OS X thing is much more than just a monitor conspiracy. It's a whole machine conspiracy. If you have a machine (other than a G4 tower) that's more than 1-1/2 or 2 years old, running Mac OS X is an exercise in frustration. Apple is a hardware company. If they release a kick-ass OS that is only usable (in the sense that Mac OS 9 is very usable on 3 and 4 year-old G4 towers), then people will buy new machines to run the new OS and the new exciting apps that come with that. That's good for Apple as long as people are willing to basically trash a 2 year-old computer because the OS runs so poorly that they can't take it any longer. In the PC world, if you have a 4 year-old computer, you can run a four or five year-old OS, and still buy NEW applications that run on it. Granted it certainly won't be as fast as the latest Pentium 4 "Furnace Edition" processor, but it will most likely be usable. As an example, has anyone tried running the latest Macromedia apps on Mac OS X? It's just awful. Slow, buggy, bloated, all but completely unusable... How about Macromedia apps on Windows? They actually behave themselves, and are quite usable, in a Windows kind of way, of course. ;-) >> . . . I'm soooo glad Steve Jobs came back to save his baby (Apple), >> but I think his vision is severely clouded by his own stupid ego. >> And that's bad for all of us. He should have just secretly bought >> the BeOS after Amelio was ousted, and spent a couple of years on that >> beast to get it to print and network better. . . . > > The main benefit of OS X is that it is basically a well known > operating system. One of the main reasons Macs didn't catch on in the > business world is that sys admins didn't like them because they're > different. Now the Mac is a known quantity - just another unix box. > Moving the Mac to BeOS would be incredibly stupid because there is > effectively zero programming community for that OS and zero support > for it in schools and businesses across the country. I don't think Macs will ever catch on in the "business" world. Why? There is still a stigma about Apple that Windoze IT people just don't like. Maybe it's that "use Macs for creative stuff, but give me Windoze to get some office work done" mentality. Or maybe since they work so well, switching to the Mac would put tons of IT professionals out of a job since they wouldn't need to futz with the OS so much, like they do with Windows. But I honestly think it's MS brainwashing from the initial training and education of the average IT worker. You learn how to use Windows for all of your needs, then you don't really need to make any hard decisions about how to do things -- your VAR calls you up, gives you a demo, sells you the Windows solution, sets up your stuff, sells you training, then sells you support because you can't make it work. I think people are finally realizing that there *are* choices out there that are better and/or less expensive (in actual dollars or work hours) than Windows... but that's a whole other story altogether... On the other hand, the Mac has always been a "niche" computer, and the BeOS would have played to that niche quite well. The BeOS was already making friends with the folks on the creative side of the music industry. OS-level support for rich media (midi, multitrack audio, real-time video) helped it develop a following... but ultimately, that alone wasn't enough. Apple's Mac OS programmers figured out a way to make classic apps run right along-side OS X apps via "classic" mode. There is/was a similar functionality on the BeOS, although it was a third-party "emulation" type app (not really emulating though, since it was on Mac hardware, but "blowing a hole" in the OS to run another OS at the same time, similar to the old "Blue Box" of OS X Server 1.2) -- so they could have figured out how to make it run like "Classic" mode runs now on Mac OS X. Also, Apple could have developed a BeOS carbon-type environment where Mac apps can be "native" BeOS apps with some relatively easy programming changes, much like the Carbon apps many of us use today. Then as the developers get familiar with the new OS, they can clean up and optimize the code for the next release and/or port to the completely native "Cocoa"-type APIs to take full benefit of the new OS. My point is that things could have worked out fine going the BeOS route as well... although I can see things getting botched up along the way along the lines of "I can do all that stuff on Windos, too, what's so special about the BeMac?", or the fact that Steve Jobs probably wouldn't have been around to keep the Mac community inspired, eagerly awaiting the next great thing from Cupertino. But then again, Windows, like the Mac (even Mac OS X), has lots of cobwebs building up in the codebase, and the BeOS was *truly*, I mean *really* a modern OS, with no legacy to bring it down, and only a few missing pieces left to fill. It's all a matter of priorities. Apple wants to sell more hardware. It seems obvious to me that they are designing their OS to warrant the need for new hardware (Quartz Extreme, anyone?). If they can get people to cough up the dough, then more power to them. But a strategy like this will probably not *increase* their market share, but rather keep it steady (if even that) as previous Mac users need to upgrade to use the latest and greatest gee-whiz apps. Then again, I think of the iApps and how they're coming together... and the fact that iPhoto 2 runs much faster than iPhoto 1, and there could be hope. All I want is to have my old Platinum interface back... or even HAVE A CHOICE! Apple? Please? ;-) So there you are... We could've all been using iMovie 3, now with real-time multiple-layer transparency and renderless transitions, all running on your old Beige G3 233 MHz with only 128 MB of RAM on Mac OS Be (I know that's kind of exaggerating... or is it?), but as it is now, lets hope that you can render your iMovie 3 project on your Power-Dual-Mega-Giga-Hertz Mac in time to just get a little sleep at the end of the day. But hey, it runs Apache! ;-) - Mark