I guess we're on different planets, Illo, but I swear on my CPU, I don't know what the hell this discussion is about. I don't know Kunga personally, found the article entertaining but no big deal, and can only think of the dear Thubten as one of the most helpful people on this list. You are perturbed at the frequency of his posts? You attribute to that "all the departures" from the group? I hope you enjoy writing fiction! It's a mystery to me how, if folks have departed, you've been able to ascertain it was because one helpful expert posts a lot. > >Oh, to Hell with me. Whatever.... Certainly not to hell, though a measure of Whatever sounds like it could be relaxing. I appreciate Kunga's contributions, noting that it often happens that a list has one or more mavens who seem to do a lot of the posting. Please feel free to post solutions and opinions as you like. I'll enjoy reading them and no doubt learn a lot about all this moom pitcher stuff. But Kunga has been generous and helpful, and I for one hope he continues to do so. B New Photopaintings at http://www.bobbogoldberg.com Voice Over website: http://www.bob-vo.com