>I agree, John! I'm disappointed that all those cheerleaders are not coming >clean on this one! > >Shawn? Michael Bigley? Massimo? > >There's nothing FUNNY here, and it'll hurt Apple (and all of us) in the >long run! Apple's got to come clean on this one! I would suggest reading the software agreement that most of us click "I agree" to when we update or install software. Besides, what is it about modern culture that makes us want to jump into a lawsuit at the drop of a hat? Sorry if this offends you lawyers, but that is the lamest attempt to resolve an issue; in fact, it resolves nothing, rather it deepens the rift and the next product you buy will have your cash and the attorney's fees built into it. If you want to force a company to change their practices, don't buy their products. It's simple, it works. Always. Apple is a billion dollar company that will stand up and take notice if their loyal following says, hey, you are not going to get my $129 for Panther, my $99 for dotMac until you change the way you are doing things. But we won't. Or at least not enough of us. Why is Apple still not offering an upgrade path for their OS... a little "give back" for us bleeding-edge early adopters? Because they don't have to. Enough of us shelled out the money for Jaguar that they feel comfortable charging full price for Panther as well. As much as I railed on this list and others about the full price upgrade, I was only able to hold out for about 3 months (then I won a copy at an Apple Seminar). Corporate world does not give us what we want, they give us what we will tolerate. We tolerate buggy, flakey and incomplete software as a whole. Not just in the OS, but Adobe hasn't produced a workable version of Illustrator for over 4 years, but we still buy it because the alternatives are also crappy and often require a learning curve that is more of a pain than the buggy crap they call software. If you walk into a car dealer and look at a brand new vehicle with wires still hanging out of the dash instead of instruments, would you accept the salesmen telling you that they were still working on it, but it will be complete before you have to buy another car? Or would you buy a refrigerator that would, once in a while, blow the circuit breaker in your house when you opened the door? If the masses would tolerate those things we would surely have corporations producing such. Microsloth takes the biggest hit and deservedly so, but we are to blame because we accept it; we vent on lists like this, but we still shell out our cash. If you really believe in what you are saying above, then DO, don't SUE. Organize a boycott of Panther. Apple's numbers are hurting, I am pretty sure, because they are not talking about them... they sure tout the numbers when they are good; I am willing to bet that dotMac re-subscribes and Panther pre-orders are slim, else we would be hearing numbers. A well-orchestrated Panther boycott may get you a voice with Steve Jobs himself. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Mike Bigley Maineville, Ohio http://www.norbertrunning.com Please support an American Indian Elder & Medicine Man by visiting the above link. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>