Oops... I guess I did snip you flipper. Why cheerleader? Good question, but a more relevant question is: Does Apple see themselves as powerful computing, 'for the rest of us', with plug 'n play, easily navigable systems that Grandma can use to post pictures of the dog on her .Mac account, or a company catering to these (in their own mind) wizards who run OpenFirmware reboots, repair-in-advance routines, and use extensive third-party 'security' procedures to inoculate themselves from Apple software that is 'rushed out the door'? The boys in Cupertino, and their sycophantic cheerleaders, can't have it both ways. They harp about quality, so fine, lay it on us, starting with latches, updates that aren't destructive, and a 21st century Finder, for starters. For one thing, with all due respect, we have to realize that commentators here, who are also part of the Apple-centric media, have a vested interest in saying Very Nice things. I'm al for that. But really, dear readers, don't look to the ad-conscious advance men for consumer advocacy. Think different doesn't imply think dumb, after all. IBM's thing "Think" was a little terse, but more to the point. I don't 'hold Apple responsible', for anything. As a matter of fact, with the relatively few mechanical problems on the Ti-Books, I think those underage children in Taiwan and mainland China deserve a nice round of applause. Don't get me wrong, all the big companies use slave labor, somewhere. But the deal is, when you slap your brand name on the item, you take the heat. And Apple can't blame their hugely bungled 10.2.8 update on children in Asia, IBM, or the fact that their Marketing-targeted demographic isn't entirely composed of semi-paranoid techno wunderkinds. The 'buck' (so to speak, not to be confused with the buck-a-day laborers) has to stop 'somewhere'. I think that was what was referenced to by the notion of 'coming clean'. Making it 'right' would be a nice gesture. I'm not holding my breath. <laughs> ~flipper --