[X4U] APPLE's Mail Program

[Stroller]

On 3 Jan 2008, at 17:14, Linda wrote:
> On 1/3/08 6:26 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>> If you're going to have a go at Microsoft, you need to observe that
>> this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program produces some
>> horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting.
>
> Not actually true. Read back in the thread; Apple is the one that's  
> actually
> following protocol, and it's the other apps that haven't been  
> recoded in the
> past few years who "break" it or don't understand it.

It may the case that Apple's following protocol on this occasion - I  
don't know that that's proven, but let's not debate it - but  
notwithstanding Mail does still produce some horribly broken & fucked- 
up message formatting.

Try this:
- Find a message in your inbox or saved folders which is written in  
rich text.
- Click on "reply" and make some edits to it.
- Choose the Mail > Format > Make Plain Text menu item.
- Send the message.
- Using terminal find the sent message in the directory representing  
your sent items folder (I did this on my IMAP server, but it should  
be the same if your messages are stored on your Mac).
- View the message using `cat` or `less`
- Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format flowed"  
yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks like a  
complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no way on  
earth this is valid plain-text.

The instance which caused me to discover this was a medium-length  
message (on this list, ironically) which contained only text - no  
graphics, or anything like that - and yet was nevertheless written in  
"rich text" to no benefit. My short reply to it was bounced by the  
listserver due to its size, leading me to examine it more closely. I  
think I was writing "inline" replies - going through the quoted  
message, finding a sentence or question I wanted to reply to and  
clicking "enter" a couple of times, then putting my response in the  
whitespace and repeating this as several different sections until the  
end - or just snipping a lot of quoted text.

I note that when I clicked reply to your message the reply was  
already in plain text, but clicking on "save draft" and examining the  
result on my IMAP server it still contains crap like  
"class=3D"AppleOriginalContents"><br =" and "class=3D"webkit-block- 
placeholder"></div><div = ". Out of curiosity I'll check again from  
"sent items" when I've sent this message in case Mail is clever  
enough to strip all this in this instance - and I've cc;d this  
message both to you & myself - but you can easily check for yourself  
by following the steps above

Incidentally, the I made the comments you quote above in response to:
>>> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
>>> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
>>> "features".
>>>
>>> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune


Apple is good at following and developing open standards when it  
wants to, but it is no saint in this regard. Since we're talking of  
mail, witness the addition of the nauseating "stationery" in 10.5's  
Mail, something that I thought was cool in Windows 95, and quickly  
grew out of within a year or two. What a step backwards!

How do widgets or gadgets really improve upon Windows 98's Active  
Desktop? Oh, and look, 2 weeks after 10.4 (?) was released a security  
update was required because of it was realised that a zip file  
installing its contents automatically might have security  
implications. Did Apple learn nothing? It appears that really they  
just like to boast about how "secure" OS X is.

I like Macs very much, and I think Apple have done many things right,  
but I would ask the previous poster to refrain from Microsoft-basing  
- it is not helpful.

Stroller.