[X4U] APPLE's Mail Program

[Stroller]

On 5 Jan 2008, at 22:29, Christopher Collins wrote:
> On 06/01/2008, at 12:33 AM, Stroller wrote:
>
>> <Lots of unsubstatiated drivel clipped.>
>>
>> I like Macs very much, and I think Apple have done many things  
>> right, but I would ask the previous poster to refrain from  
>> Microsoft-basing - it is not helpful.
>>
>
> Yet again Stroller, you seem to constantly miss the point.
>
> I was not bashing Microsoft per se. I was bashing ANYONE who takes  
> an open standard, modifies it with their own "features" and then  
> wonders why it won't work properly with other software that follows  
> the standard.
>
> You really need to get off your "Microsoft on a pedestal" and  
> understand what was said.

Stuff you, pal.

It was YOU who said:

>>>> Because people like Microsoft and others think they can do it  
>>>> better and want to control things and so they add additional  
>>>> "features".
>>>>
>>>> Witness Silverlight, Java, Zune


You mention Microsoft by name, not Adobe or any other manufacturers.  
2 of those 3 products are Microsoft ones. Sun may rigidly control  
Java, but that is to prevent the modification you decry! In bringing  
Java to the table Sun may not have given the world a standard open to  
community alteration, but they were pretty honest about this and  
forced no-one to use it (nor took advantage of a monopoly position to  
foist it on people). Java succeeded because it's useful.

I am not "on a Microsoft pedestal" - I get hacked off by unreasoning  
idiots who put Apple on a pedestal. You mentioned Microsoft by name,  
I observed that "this thread is all about how APPLE'S mail program  
produces some horribly broken & fucked-up message formatting."

> PS 	And just for the record, prove the following with something  
> more than a throw away statement that is only your opinion.
>
> - Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format flowed"  
> yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks like a  
> complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no way on  
> earth this is valid plain-text.

How can you say that is "only an opinion"??!?!? Have you even LOOKED  
at the email's raw source?

I gave you very clear instructions on how to do so:

>> - Find a message in your inbox or saved folders which is written  
>> in rich text.
>> - Click on "reply" and make some edits to it.
>> - Choose the Mail > Format > Make Plain Text menu item.
>> - Send the message.
>> - Using terminal find the sent message in the directory  
>> representing your sent items folder (I did this on my IMAP server,  
>> but it should be the same if your messages are stored on your Mac).
>> - View the message using `cat` or `less`
>> - Observe how the MIME header says "plain text" and "format  
>> flowed" yet there's still a bunch of stuff in there that looks  
>> like a complete & utter mess, including html markup. There is no  
>> way on earth this is valid plain-text.

Did you bother to try this before posting? Apparently not, because I  
can _very_ easily reproduce it.

Now, what I'm seeing - looking at the emails of this thread that I've  
posted & cc'd to myself - is that Mail.app has clever enough to strip  
the crap when sending the message, and to strip it from the copy in  
sent items. But I have _definitely_ seen it sent into the wild  
unstripped, too.

Stroller.