[G4] Pioneer 107 and DVD media question

[rich northouse]

I think you guys got too much time on your hands -- way too much!

rich

On Feb 3, 2004, at 2:48 AM, csean at poc.it wrote:

> on 02/02/2004 23:25, Power Macintosh G4 List at 
> G4 at lists.themacintoshguy.com
> wrote:
>
>>> He may indeed have a different point of view, I sincerely hope he
>>> does, but
>>> I assume he's perfectly capable of telling me his point of view if he
>>> wants
>>> to, either on the list or privately.
>>
>> Look, this list doesn't just happen. There is a guy in Portland who
>> provides resources and gives of his time to make sure this list works.
>> You posted a question, I pointed out to you that your question was
>> dicey. At this point, it might conceivably be polite ask the list 
>> owner
>> whether he objects to that particular topic or not before going on.
>
> I agree, and I did ask him to express his views, objections, etc. in 
> my last
> posting.
> And you pointed out that my question was not "dicey", but "illegal in 
> more
> than one country". But you didn't say which countries. You implied 
> that one
> of the countries was the USA, opining that the US-based listowner 
> could get
> in trouble re. US laws, but then you said that US law on the issue has 
> not
> been finalized yet, and may not be finalized for some time.
>
>
>> This is not about self-censorship. You can search the net and you'll
>> find tons of references to the subject; there are even Internet boards
>> dedicated exclusively to exchanging info on how to pirate software --
>> and I shouldn't be surprised if there were one (or more) dedicated
>> specifically to copying commercial DVDs. All that is between you, your
>> ISP, and the people who post the info. But what is posted on this list
>> -- if it is illegal -- might involve also the list owner.
>
> I referred to a tendency to self-censorship that can arise when people 
> feel
> threatened, or think they feel threatened. Self-censorship may even 
> increase
> in situations of legal ambiguity, in situations where laws, in fact, 
> have
> not been finalized. Our discussion of the laws on fair use copying of 
> one's
> own DVDs seems to indicate that at present there are no clear cut laws
> against it, though there may be in the future, at least in the USA.
>
>>> You start out by saying simply that "In more than one country, the
>>> operation
>>> you describe is illegal".
>>> Yet no further information is provided. Not which countries, no
>>> quoting of
>>> said laws, no links to the relative legal decisions, etc.
>>
>> Are you joking? You want me to provide you with a legal opinion,
>> complete with full references on the issue? I'll be more than glad to.
>> I charge USD 200/hour (dirt cheap, btw, in this business), and I
>> estimate the research will take me about 12 hours. I'll start working
>> on it as soon as I receive your cheque. (Incidentally, in one of the
>> post I already provided you with some free tidbits of info -- see ref
>> to Norway -- that's just to whet your appetite.)
>
> No, thanks, I know enough Canadian lawyers already, though few of the 
> dirt
> cheap ones. What I did make reference to was your point-blank 
> statement that
> "in more than one country...", though you didn't list any. The 
> Norwegian
> tidbit was a ruling you said legalized DVD backups. But anyway.
>
>>> But the fact that said questions do slip thru and get
>>> posted does not constitute a prosecutable act on the list operator's
>>> part.
>>> This has been established in law.
>>
>> To quote from the classics: " [...] no further information is 
>> provided.
>> Not which countries, no quoting of said laws, no links to the relative
>> legal decisions, etc."
>
> Fair enough, and haste makes waste. I'll trade ya my research for yers,
> straight up, no cheques asked, none earned (or is it "checks", seeing 
> as you
> work in USD?)
>>
>>> But would a US-based list owner "get in trouble" for providing 
>>> Chinese
>>> citizens with the opportunity to break Chinese law?
>>
>> Probably not. But he might "get in trouble" for providing anyone with
>> the opportunity to break US law.
>
> Which kind of takes us around in circles again, seeing as I'm not in 
> the US,
> nor (as some have said here) does the US yet have a law against DVD 
> backups.
> Nor does Italy. Further, I have no intention of copying US-made and
> -distributed DVDs; indeed, I don't even own any.
> Or are you referring to the fact that, if someone on the list were to 
> answer
> my original question, the list owner might get into trouble because a 
> US
> resident might read the exchange between me and another person, and 
> use that
> information to break US law, at some time in the future, if such a law 
> were
> ever passed in the US? Hmmm. I don't know. I mean, you may be right 
> (that's
> what you get the big bucks for, eh?), but heck. That's no way to go 
> about
> things. I guess at this point we could use some input from the 
> listowner,
> who no one wants to get in trouble.
> (All I wanted to do was keep the kids' Nutella-soaked fingers off our 
> good
> copy of the Teletubbies!)
>
> Chris
>
> P.S. Other lists I know of have list "nannies" to help the listowner. 
> Though
> probably far too long on wind and short on facts, I'd be more than 
> willing
> to help out in said role; though given his tone, temperament and 
> vocation,
> and despite the word's potentially offensive (to finely tuned Canadian 
> ears)
> sexist undertones, Alex may be the more suitable choice. Anyone?
>
>
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