On the other hand, the long time list user, having seen everything before, can be impatient and overly sensitive to newbie views and opinions that are patently incorrect, seen from the long time user's point of view. Flaming or threats of not helping newbies (and others) that do not follow the etiquette of some users are no more conducive to the purpose of the list than people that think bailing from the list is conducive to "straightening out" or "punishing" the list. Top posting vs. bottom posting and plain text vs. HTML discussions have been on the Internet for many years now and do not appear to be going away anytime soon. Everyone on this list should be grown-up enough to be able to live with this plurality without threats or sanctions of the one kind or other. Let's get on with enjoying our Macs! Cheers, Brian On 5/21/05, Steven Rogers <srogers1 at austin.rr.com> wrote: > The newbie will often imagine that they are the first to invent a > particular clever psychological tactic, like the "martyred list > drop" message, which will whip the list back into shape - forgetting > that some people have been on mailing lists 10-15 years and have seen > it all before. Sue's post can teach a valuable newbie lesson in how > to conduct yourself on the list. When you're thinking about posting a > petulant or guilt-inducing message to scold others into doing what > you want, you might consider that the more experienced may have seen > it before, and may not find it clever. When the martyr wails, "you > *made me* leave the list I have loved so much", the more experienced > might be thinking, "If you love it so much, then why didn't you just > hit the delete key?"