Dr. Trevor J. Hutley wrote: >What I am saying is that I always apply the updates as soon as they >are out, and I can hardly remember having any problem before. Hi Trevor, I, too, am sorry to hear you're having difficulties. But, you mention (above) applying updates as soon as they come out.... Why? What's the rush? Let others be the guinea pigs, that's my creed regarding Apple's updates. They once pulled a minor update for iTunes that had a typo in the shell script (after an 'rm' with user-provided root escalation, no less) that proceeded to wipe home directories. 10.2.8 was pulled in something like 8 hours. (Or was it 4?). There are some folks who believe that there isn't 'really' a 10.2.8, that it's just a repatched return to 10.2.7, but the OS is schizophrenic, and so layered, who would ever really know? My point is, for a company that prides itself on "It Just Works", where the devil do they get the courage to look themselves in the face when thousands of folks are having to re-install bits of java, and re-done 'old' security 'updates', just to make the flagship browser work? Whatever became of that old chestnut known as 'burn in'? Well, my friend, i let the others do the burning in, for me, and when the dust settles, and people finish blaming other developers (whose apps were working fine one minute...), and Apple issues a 'security' patch to fix the boo-boo's, then i decide "Is this worth it, really?" Anyways, I'm an advocate of letting others 'experiment' with their systems... i rely on mine too much to play games of chance. Sometimes problems don't surface immediately. I like to wait at least a few weeks. I don't have that 'blind faith' that seems emblematic of the cult of personality that has grown up around Jobs and the 'design' team. Remember it was Amelio who decided to grab NeXTSTEP and beef up the Advanced Computing group, not Jobs. When you see the juggernaut of Unix powering things (in spite of the resource-crazed GUI)...that's Amelio, and the 'real' designers... and when you see strawberry pastel-coloured iPods and 3D icons...that's Jobs and his crew. With all the new billions in iPod sales rushing in there's even less excuse (if there ever was any at all) to be rushing stuff out the door. My advice: let the 'early adopters' and sycophants be the 'test tubes'. ~flipper